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Old 05-11-2007, 12:08 PM   #1
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D44 Ring & Pinion Questions

I'm ready to build my diffs (D30/D44) with 4.56 gears and detroit lockers - got all the parts, got all the tools now, and got the jeep on jackstands with the old stuff removed. But, I've never set up the gears before so I'm going slow. My question is this: If I'm going from 3.73 to 4.56, would I still start with the same thickness of shims for the new pinion depth as the old that came out? Or does the size of the new pinion somehow make a difference that I should compensate for in my first pass to get the depth correct? Any help will be appreciated!

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Old 05-11-2007, 12:29 PM   #2
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Use the markings on the old pinion shaft vs. the new pinion shaft to choose your initial shim depth. It'll be a pretty easy math problem to determine the difference/starting point for shims required for the new pinion. As a starting point at least.

If you haven't seen the writeup at Randy's Ring & Pinion, check it out at http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/Ho...lation_Kit.pdf

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Old 05-11-2007, 12:33 PM   #3
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Don't you have to have a special tool to be able to set the proper backlash as well?
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:35 PM   #4
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Don't you have to have a special tool to be able to set the proper backlash as well?
Yep, a dial indicator which works like a micrometer.
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:40 PM   #5
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Is it hard to use? And if you've never regeared is something that can be properly tackled?
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:43 PM   #6
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Is it hard to use? And if you've never regeared is something that can be properly tackled?
It's not for the faint-of-heart or those who have no clue, that is for sure. In most 4x4 shops, they only have 1-2 techs they'll trust to do R&P installations and most of the others don't even want to mess with them. Properly setting up a ring & pinion gear set is exacting, tedious, and time consuming. If not done precisely and properly, the R&P gears will be toast in short order.
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:47 PM   #7
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Oh so its not something I should attempt? I got a friend who builds and works on Trans Ams, Camaros and Mustangs and that don't use one because he does so many he can do it buy the way its sounds or something.
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:06 PM   #8
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I got a friend who builds and works on Trans Ams, Camaros and Mustangs and that don't use one because he does so many he can do it buy the way its sounds or something.
Huh?
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:10 PM   #9
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I dunno he does it though. We went to his shop and he had a car on the lift asked him what he was doing to it and he said gears and listened to em or something I ain't ever seen anyone do it like htat before but it was a track car and it don't have any problems none of them do.
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:14 PM   #10
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I dunno he does it though. We went to his shop and he had a car on the lift asked him what he was doing to it and he said gears and listened to em or something I ain't ever seen anyone do it like htat before but it was a track car and it don't have any problems none of them do.
Ok but setting up R&P gears for track cars is rarely done even close to the precision required for a vehicle driven on the street. Track cars dont get driven very far, a month of track use might only equal a few hours at most on the street.
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Old 05-11-2007, 02:32 PM   #11
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thanks for the info. I've got all the right tools - dial indicator, inch pound dial type torque wrench, mikes, press, etc. I just need to get started and then I'll probably find out it wasn't as intimidating as I originally thought.
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Old 05-11-2007, 02:45 PM   #12
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let me know because that would save me alot of money, like $600, if I upgrade axles and regear instead of getting bigger axles.
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Old 05-11-2007, 02:47 PM   #13
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use your old bearing grind them out a little so they will slide on and off by hand it"ll make it much easier to do your set up
and stat with the original shim thickness and go from there its pretty easy just take your time and get it right
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:27 PM   #14
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I just finished doing mine last night. It was actually very easy and it was my first time. Basic tools and a table vice was all i had. Theres no way you can finish this job incorrectly unless your extremely lazy and dont want to take it apart again and add or subtract a shim. Once u put it together and apply the marking compound, that should tell u where the pinion meets the ring gear and that should tell u whether u need to increase or decrease back lash or pinion depth. I only did the front to match the back due to the 8.8 axle swap. But it was definetly not a 300 per axle job. maybe 50. did the front in an hour and a half. Just keep track of the shims that u remove and use shims of the same measurement for the first trial. apply the marking compound, then u see where shims are needed or need to be taken out. Remember, u take shims out of one side, u need to put them in the other side. PIRATE4X4 has an excellant write up with many pics of what a good marking compound pattern should look like and what and where to adjust if the pattern is is to high or low or to the side.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:06 PM   #15
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I know about the pattern but that don't mean the backlash is correct does it?
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:03 PM   #16
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Ok. I've looked it all over and read everything in the world. . . but I still have a few questions. I think I have the pinion part of it figured out. The carrier: when I pulled it out there were two thick spacers on the outside of each carrier bearing. No shims that I can see between the carrier bearing and the carrier and no shims on the outside - just those two thick pieces (1/4" or so). Then I read somewhere that the newer Rubicons use an outside shim (I don't have a Rubi - but do have an '05 D44 in the rear). Anyone know what's up? I think I have to just press on the carrier bearings and shim the outside, i.e. the bearing race - against the case and the bearing. But not sure. Should I just put it all back in and see what kind of carrier preload and tooth contact I have?
Next question: On the Pirate 4x4 site the article on gears says that if you don't know where to start on pinion depth, start at 50-60 thous, check pinion runout, subtract 10 thous and start there. Check what pinion runout? My brain's slipping on that one. Any help there?
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:18 AM   #17
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you do have a starting point for the pinion use the same size shim pack that was in there to start what the pirate board is referring to is if you started with a bare housing

before you check your pattern make sure you have the right back lash you must have correct back lash every time you change a shim then check pattern (that make sense)

like I said before use your old bearings and dremel the bearing out so you can slide it on by hand while you set everything up that's how you make your own set up bearings
you might have to do it several times before you get it right then when everything is set up correctly pull it apart and replace the old bearings with the new ones and do a final inspection before you button every thing up

you need adobe to read this but hear is some detailed instructions
http://www.ringpinion.com/Content/Ho...lation_Kit.pdf

and the web sight
http://www.ringpinion.com/HowTo.aspx

hope that helps
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:35 AM   #18
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what i did if use the same shims in the same places of the old carrier and pinion for the new gears. then test the pattern and see what needs adjustment. easy as cake. The pattern tells u everything, if its to high, then the pinion depth needs increasing, if is off to the side, then backlash needs adjustment. pirate4x4.com has pictures of correct and incorrect patterns and what to adjust for each example of an incorrect pattern.
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Old 05-12-2007, 09:41 AM   #19
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I understand all that, but the problem is that there seems to be very few shims in my factory install. Pinion had .035 in shims for backlash; none for depth - but I know where they go and how that works. Carrier had no shims, just two big rings on the outside of the bearings - against the carrier bearing and the housing. these rings are .130 thickness (about 1/8 inch). I don't think starting with the original shims would work for me anyway. I have new ring and pinion and a new carrier since I'm putting a detroit locker in. So. . . nothing is the same. I'm not sure I can get the carrier bearings off in one piece because there's nothing behind the cone to connect to - they're tight up against the carrier. I did shave the old outer pinion id and the inner and outer pinion races od so I can use them as set up bearings. But, I think I'll just press the new bearings on the locker and see what happens with these outer rings. That's the other thing: I was only given about 5 total shims for the carrier bearings in my kit. Worse thing can happen is I hafta buy another bearing kit, I guess. . . and you're absolutely right - the pattern tells you everything. thanks.
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:24 PM   #20
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Just found my problem. I went to my 'not so local' offroad store and it turns out that the website I bought the bearing kits from sent me the wrong kits. So, another $350 down for a couple of Yukon kits and I'm now in business. Just FYI for anyone who's going to do their own gears in a later model TJ, it also appears that the ring gear bolt sizes have changed (from 1/2 to 7/16 I think). So, if the bolts feel sloppy in your new locker/carrier, you may need some inserts to accommodate the new smaller bolts.

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