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Dana 44 questions

4K views 51 replies 10 participants last post by  UnlimitedLJ04 
#1 ·
Hey All,

I hate to be the guy asking questions before doing a thourough search on this, but I need this information asap and have limited time to search (I am currently searching)

I've come across an awesome deal on a Dana 44 rear end out of a 2000 TJ sport. The tag is corroded to hell, but I am the one that removed the rear end from my buddies parts jeep so I know for a fact is is a TJ sport.

My questions:

1) My assumption is this will bolt up to my 1999 TJ with zero modifications to brackets correct?

2) if I have a 4" lift, would I need to shorten the driveshaft? I think I read awhile back you don't need to - does anyone know for sure without waiting until it is in and measuring?

3) How many variations of the Dana 44 rear end in TJ's are there? By the time we got it out, it was too late to pull the diff cover and inspect parts- Did these come as both LSD and open diff units?

4) Does anyone know if the Pinions are stamped with the gear ration on them (i.e 3.73) if I pull the cover and the diff unit? I want to be sure they are 3.73 gears as that is what I have.

5) I havent had a chance to look at the front of the parts jeep, and it is being wheeled out of his house in a day or so - the front should still be a Dana 30 right? or was there another option from factory available for these things? (This was a stock jeep)

6) I was looking at the brake junction on the rear axle- someone chopped the rubber line that goes to the junction sitting on the Dana 44 axle (the one with the vent tube going up, the brake line from the front going in, and then splits into each drum brake....I don't see a fitting for the rubber hose that was cut to replace that part...what is the deal with that hose- can it be replaced? I can't imagine it not being able to??

I'm currently searching for these answers myself right now, but I have some time constraints on this and taking the Dana 44, so unfortunately I need to find out this stuff asap

Thanks to anyone who can help
 
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#2 ·
1 - yes

2 - typically you will need a shorter driveshaft. I'm not sure if the mounting patterns are different between d35 and d44 though

3 - the tags on the diff covers should tell you what it is, at least gear ratio wise

4 - see 3

5 - it's a d30, only swap it if the rear is a different axle ratio which will save you from a regear

6 - Not sure what you're referring to
 
#3 ·
1) My assumption is this will bolt up to my 1999 TJ with zero modifications to brackets correct?
Correct.

2) if I have a 4" lift, would I need to shorten the driveshaft? I think I read awhile back you don't need to - does anyone know for sure without waiting until it is in and measuring?
Measure it regardless. It is easy to do to verify it is what you need. If you don't, the result can be very expensive compared to the cost of getting a DS shortened.

3) How many variations of the Dana 44 rear end in TJ's are there? By the time we got it out, it was too late to pull the diff cover and inspect parts- Did these come as both LSD and open diff units?
Yes, they come with both, but that shouldn't matter to you. If you get a LSD, then bonus. If not, no harm no foul.

4) Does anyone know if the Pinions are stamped with the gear ration on them (i.e 3.73) if I pull the cover and the diff unit? I want to be sure they are 3.73 gears as that is what I have.
There should be a tag on the left side of the pumpkin that should show the ratio. If not, pull the cover and look at the ring gear...there will be numbers like 41 11...divide 41 by 11 and you'll get 3.727272 (3:73 ratio)

5) I havent had a chance to look at the front of the parts jeep, and it is being wheeled out of his house in a day or so - the front should still be a Dana 30 right? or was there another option from factory available for these things? (This was a stock jeep)
Correct. A D30 is all that came in the TJ until the Rubicon (which has a D44).

6) I was looking at the brake junction on the rear axle- someone chopped the rubber line that goes to the junction sitting on the Dana 44 axle (the one with the vent tube going up, the brake line from the front going in, and then splits into each drum brake....I don't see a fitting for the rubber hose that was cut to replace that part...what is the deal with that hose- can it be replaced? I can't imagine it not being able to??
You have to buy a new hose if somebody cut it as it has a crimped fitting that attaches to the brake line at the frame (right next to the upper control arm mount on the drivers side).....about $35.
 
#4 ·
Correct.


Measure it regardless. It is easy to do to verify it is what you need. If you don't, the result can be very expensive compared to the cost of getting a DS shortened.
Will do- would it be worth it to just snag the driveshaft from this TJ? it is available...

Yes, they come with both, but that shouldn't matter to you. If you get a LSD, then bonus. If not, no harm no foul.
Depends on how much an LSD unit costs lol- putting an open diff in the back isnt exactly an upgrade even if the rear end is stronger.



There should be a tag on the left side of the pumpkin that should show the ratio. If not, pull the cover and look at the ring gear...there will be numbers like 41 11...divide 41 by 11 and you'll get 3.727272 (3:73 ratio)
I tried cleaning the tag up with a wire wheel last night, but it is toast for the most part- I think I vaguely vaguely vaguely made out 3.73. I intend to pop the cover. Thanks for letting me know about 41 11 - I would have been looking for a 3.73 stamping.


You have to buy a new hose if somebody cut it as it has a crimped fitting that attaches to the brake line at the frame (right next to the upper control arm mount on the drivers side).....about $35.
Do you have a picture of how it attaches? are you saying I need to buy a replacement hose and crimp it? I've never heard of the crimps being done outside of the factory?

Who has the capability to do that sort of thing? I personally have only ever run hardlines and the rubber / braided lines I have installed have all had screw in fittings...
 
#9 ·
That block is held to the axle by a dual purpose bolt/nipple. It is hollow and separate from the block. It holds the brake block to the axle and also serves as the vent tube for the axle. If you look on top of the block, you'll see a nut that you can get a wrench on and unscrew that piece from the block. The block back up to the frame side is all one piece. Where the vent tube attaches is a separate piece. The brake lines attach to the side of the block.
 
#12 ·
That block is held to the axle by a dual purpose bolt/nipple. It is hollow and separate from the block. It holds the
brake block to the axle and also serves as the vent tube for the axle. If you look on top of the block, you'll see a nut that you can get a wrench on and unscrew that piece from the block. The block back up to the frame side is all one piece. Where the vent tube attaches is a separate piece. The brake lines attach to the side of the block.
Thanks, I'll look at that piece again when I am back over at his place.

I'm still curious as to the advantage of an open diff 44 over a LSD D35...I mean yes, strength, but what good is strength with no traction? am I missing something?

And thanks Jerry, I believe I had read that somewhere before. I have a 4"...who knows if it has sagged down to a 3.5", that is the next thing I need to figure out.... This is why I usually buy virgin vehicles and start my way lol
 
#10 ·
I'd replace an LSD equipped Dana 35 with an open Dana 44 any day any time.

Any Dana 44 from any 97 to 06 TJ is a direct bolt-on.

Your OE Dana 35 driveshaft will not need to be shortened for the replacement Dana 44 if you have close to 3" or more suspension lift height.
 
#14 ·
It's easy to install a locker or LSD into an open Dana 44 which is a good sound base to build on. A Dana 35 with a LSD is not worthy of considering superior to a Dana 44 in any way. Especially since the TracLoc's clutch pack has a limited life, typically only 40-50k miles.
I wasn't considering it superior at all- it sucks...but my hesitation was to go from a posi diff to an open one is actually a step backwards...despite the strength increase.

now, usually posi units run a good $600-$700, but it looks like the D44 ones are a lot less than that...so Im not as concerned.

My notion was, if it is going to cost $600 for a posi, $100 for new bearings $70 for new break lines....just that cost alone I figure I can do an 8.8 for


I just like weighing all options.
 
#15 ·
one other question, just for my own knowledge- were the brackets on the D44 TJ's weak? or am I confusing the brackets with a D44 from another model? I thought at one point in time I had read that guys were cutting the brackets off in favour of stronger ones?
 
#16 ·
All of the stock CA brackets are 1/8" steel. Not weak for a stock application. When you start wheeling and putting bind on the mounts, that's where they show their limitation. The biggest reason the stock ones bend and break are due to crappy aftermarket control arms with poly bushings. They are very stiff and when force is applied, the bracket becomes the weak link.

It is unreal how much stronger going from an 1/8" to a 3/16" bracket is. Most experienced builders will say that a 1/4" bracket is overkill. To each there own, but I am very happy with 3/16".
 
#19 ·
I should probably add a little more to help clarify.

There are a lot of people who run stock bracketry without problems. You can run into problems with poly bushings. If you wheel hard long enough, these problems will become apparent (depending on how rough you are on your rig).

This is why you see people recommending control arms that have a high misalignment capability. The two best out there are the proven johnny joint and the metalcloak duroflex joint. These joints allow the CA to flex without transferring all the twisting motion to the bracket like a poly bushing would.

I would say most people run the MC or JJ with stock bracketry. This isn't as big of a problem due to the misalignment characteristics. So do you need upgraded bracketry? More than likely not. But you will know when you do!

The only reason I switched to 3/16" brackets was for the fact I had to relocate my rear brackets anyway due to a very steep pinion angle. On the front, I put new 3/16" brackets on the lowers because my stock ones got ground down and bent up from the rocks (mini skids would have helped here for sure). My next project will be the frame side mounts. I've had rocks bend the lips right around the CA. I straighten them back out but they just keep getting weaker.







Here's what happens in the rocks when you don't have a mini skid on...





Frame side

 
#22 ·
I should probably add a little more to help clarify.

There are a lot of people who run stock bracketry without problems. You can run into problems with poly bushings. If you wheel hard long enough, these problems will become apparent (depending on how rough you are on your rig).

This is why you see people recommending control arms that have a high misalignment capability. The two best out there are the proven johnny joint and the metalcloak duroflex joint. These joints allow the CA to flex without transferring all the twisting motion to the bracket like a poly bushing would.

I would say most people run the MC or JJ with stock bracketry. This isn't as big of a problem due to the misalignment characteristics. So do you need upgraded bracketry? More than likely not. But you will know when you do!

The only reason I switched to 3/16" brackets was for the fact I had to relocate my rear brackets anyway due to a very steep pinion angle. On the front, I put new 3/16" brackets on the lowers because my stock ones got ground down and bent up from the rocks (mini skids would have helped here for sure). My next project will be the frame side mounts. I've had rocks bend the lips right around the CA. I straighten them back out but they just keep getting weaker.







Here's what happens in the rocks when you don't have a mini skid on...





Frame side


Appreciated- I can't see the pics until I get home (this computer is weird). I have metalcloaks CA's that are going on top and bottom for the rear so hopefully it is all good there then.

I'll be jacked up (no pun intended) if I get to wheel 33's this season :atomic:
 
#23 ·
Does anyone have a photo or two of a posi in a D44 and an open carrier in a D44?

I ended up picking up the D44, popped the cover, and I am thinking it is an open diff, just trying to verify it.
 
#29 ·
ok so square opening is the trakloc. I was trying to look for the clutch packs in it, but I couldn't see them which is why I was leaning towards an open carrier.

I popped the 4 carrier bolts holding it in and tried to pull it out, but she was tight in there and wouldn't budge...and since I was short on time and it looked like it was going to rain, I put it back together and tossed it in the truck.

I got my main info in that it was 41 11 so 3.73 gears thanks to hosejockey.

This rear end runs no C-clips (not sure if they are all like that) but I am pretty happy about it.

Will the D35 drum brakes swap over to the D44? The drums are a little shotty on this one, and I don't have the coin to be dropping on a disc conversion at this point in time.

I'll also post a pic of that brake/vent box that sits ontop of the axle housing...I still can't figure out how to take that stupid thing off and change it? I'll upload the pic in the morning.
 
#31 ·
I popped the 4 carrier bolts holding it in and tried to pull it out, but she was tight in there and wouldn't budge
Carriers are placed in with required "preload" This means it takes a little bit of force to get it to come out. Some people throw a rag into the gears and force it out that way. If I have it on my work bench on blocks, I turn the axle face down with one hand on the carrier and the other to lift and gently drop the axle to let gravity do the work. Either way, pay special attention to the shims and keep them on the side they came out of. You can measure those and it gives you a great starting point when setting up your gears.


Will the D35 drum brakes swap over to the D44?
As long as the axle shafts have the flat retaining plate (disc brake retaining plates have a curved lip)

I'll also post a pic of that brake/vent box that sits ontop of the axle housing...I still can't figure out how to take that stupid thing off and change it? I'll upload the pic in the morning.
It is VERY simple (I was confused with it at one point too...be sure to pass it along!)

Pull the diff breather tube off. You will see a hex nut. Unscrew that and it comes right out of that box. The brake lines go through the block but not through the part you are unscrewing. Since you have to change that part out however, I would unscrew the two brakelines first before removing the breather tube nut. You will see what I'm talking about. The brake block (I forget the correct term for it) all the way up to the frame connection is all one piece that will need to be replaced.
 
#30 ·
Remove the hose off the vent fitting and you'll see it has a hex fitting that allows it to be unscrewed so the block can be removed. Drum and disk brakes are fully interchangeable between the TJ's Dana 35 and 44 axles.

The TJ's Dana 44 doesn't use c-clips, only the Dana 35 does.
 
#32 ·
Thanks both- that was literally going to be my next move tomorrow, cut the remainder of the vent hose off and look for some kind of screw. If that failed, I was thinking I was going to have to run a separate junction for the brakes. Good to know that will correct it.

Next questions- lets assume at this point I have an open diff until I get back and check it again. Which Posi units are the preference. Most of the threads Ive been digging up guys are looking to run lockers. Since this jeep sees a lot of street time as well, and air lockers are expensive as hell, I'm leaning towards a good posi going in back there.

looking for any suggestions, hoping to stay on a budget.
 
#34 ·
The vent hose was already cut, I'll need to use my dana 35 vent hose when I do the swap.

why do you say factor in setting up gears to? I didn't think you needed to resetup gears when you swap in a posi?
 
#37 ·
Truetracs have a good reputation, FAR better than any of the other clutch-based LSDs. You simply need to shim it left or right to get the required backlash. The bearing pre-load, which made your carrier tight enough that you couldn't easily remove it, is important to be there to prevent premature bearing wear It must be that tight.

There are a few tricks on how to get the carrier out once you get to that point. The coolest way I've seen so far is what mrblaine taught me when I was repairing my rear locker... attach a box-end wrench to a ring gear bolt and turn the pinion yoke with a long lever in the direction that will lever the carrier out... put the wrench on and rotate the yoke so the front of the ring gear moves downward against the wrench which will lever it out.

A big mallet (not a BFH) works well to pound the carrier back into place.
 
#38 ·
Truetracs have a good reputation, FAR better than any of the other clutch-based LSDs. You simply need to shim it left or right to get the required backlash. The bearing pre-load, which made your carrier tight enough that you couldn't easily remove it, is important to be there to prevent premature bearing wear It must be that tight.

There are a few tricks on how to get the carrier out once you get to that point. The coolest way I've seen so far is what mrblaine taught me when I was repairing my rear locker... attach a box-end wrench to a ring gear bolt and turn the pinion yoke with a long lever in the direction that will lever the carrier out... put the wrench on and rotate the yoke so the front of the ring gear moves downward against the wrench which will lever it out.

A big mallet (not a BFH) works well to pound the carrier back into place.
Thanks for the tip!

next question lol- I'm full of them. How are the dana's setup shim wise? I was reading something's last night and it seemed as if the shims were between the carrier and the bearings (which are pressed onto the carrier)? That seems backwards to me?

if I remember correctly when we did both my chevy rear end and the ford 8.8 that is in it now, we had the bearings pressed onto the posi unit and then the shims went between the housing ends and bearing and we adjusted according to the backlash needed.

and then back to the worm vs clutch posi's - I know Jerry you like the helix setups in the Truetrac because a) your support above and b) I have seen you boast about them in other threads I have been searching...but what are they like strength wise?

I kind of keep eluding to my racing background and there our preference is clutch style posi's as I have completely turned a Zexel Torsen to dust before, because it just can't take the shock/power of a car with sticky tires. Now I know clutches have to be replaced every 50k or so, but there is generally less breakage with a clutch driven unit. I know 4L can put some stress on the drivetrain, however I am not sure how much...

If it helps any, I want to obviously spend as little money as possible and would love a selectable locker as those are the best...but ideally I don't want to spend over $500-$600

I am seeing the stock units go for $50-$75 and if those are pretty decent, obviously I'd opt to go that route and don't mind swapping clutches every 3 years or so... and then spend the money savings elsewhere, like a front Dana 30 lsd unit.

Now that I have this rear end, I'll run 33's this year, within the next 2-3 years when all kinks are ironed out on my build, we'll push it up to 35's
 
#39 ·
The Truetrac seems to have no problem with 35's so you'd be fine with 33's. It has a reputation for being nearly bulletproof among many users, of which I am a former f/r Truetrac owner.

The shims are positioned outside of the bearings so they can be inserted at the same time the carrier is being inserted. Take care to put the factory shims back in exactly as they came out... there's a slim chance the backlash will still be ok with a new carrier or something like a Truetrac or E-Locker.

The only lower-cost selectable that seems reasonable cost-wise that also has a good reputation in my opinion is the Eaton E-locker.
 
#40 ·
The Truetrac seems to have no problem with 35's so you'd be fine with 33's. It has a reputation for being nearly bulletproof among many users, of which I am a former f/r Truetrac owner.

The shims are positioned outside of the bearings so they can be inserted at the same time the carrier is being inserted. Take care to put the factory shims back in exactly as they came out... there's a slim chance the backlash will still be ok with a new carrier or something like a Truetrac or E-Locker.

The only lower-cost selectable that seems reasonable cost-wise that also has a good reputation in my opinion is the Eaton E-locker.
I looked at those, however I have read that the eatons aren't up to locked 35's and taller gearing.

You're right, factory shimming probably won't work with a new carrier, but I am hoping I can get a shim kit as I should only need to adjust left and right shimming and not pinion depth which would be needed if you changed gears.
 
#41 ·
alright last question for today (I hope)...are all dana 44 rear ends out of a TJ 30 spline? or do I need to go out and count lol? or is it on this corroded tag I now have sitting in front of me?
 
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