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Old 08-22-2011, 01:17 PM   #391
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68,140 miles I have done the work, the track bar was the 50mph problem and I get a wobble when I step on the brakes at about the same speed. going to have tires rebalanced today

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Old 08-22-2011, 01:19 PM   #392
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I have lowerd and lifted trucks before but they were Fords. Mine is stock height with 31's on it

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Old 08-22-2011, 01:21 PM   #393
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just new brake pads, rotors are perfect
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:28 PM   #394
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i have an 05 L J, no death wobble in stock form, i put on a 4" suspension lift and instant death wobble. I got it aligned with a positive caster set at 7.4 degrees positive (6-8 degrees positive is suggested) still death wobble. replaced track bar (not with adjustable, just upgraded to to Moog), still didn't fix the problem. took it to alignment specialist and he set the caster to 5.75 degrees positive, instantly fixed it.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:01 AM   #395
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by go501green View Post
i have an 05 L J, no death wobble in stock form, i put on a 4" suspension lift and instant death wobble. I got it aligned with a positive caster set at 7.4 degrees positive (6-8 degrees positive is suggested) still death wobble. replaced track bar (not with adjustable, just upgraded to to Moog), still didn't fix the problem. took it to alignment specialist and he set the caster to 5.75 degrees positive, instantly fixed it.
It's been a while since we posted it, but if you will go back to post #364 and study it you will find that your alignment could or even should have had the caster set even less than the 5.75 degrees +.

Just a couple of questions for you about your lift. What lift did you install? Did it come with a drop pitman arm? Most 4" lifts require one at a minimum to correct the track bar to drag link angle enough to keep you from having bump steer and/or torque steer. For no logical reason, there are some individual vehicles that you must install a high steer kit to correct for the bump steer and torque steer even with the drop pitman arm. Most vehicles do not require the high steer, but there is always the odd one.

When you replaced the track bar, did you check the bolt holes on the axle end for elongation? This can be one of the causes of the DW so it should always be checked. The same can be said for the control arms and the mounts they connect to. If the nut happens to loosen on the bolts holding the control arms, the holes will wallow out and create movement under torque from acceleration and braking. This is also addressed in post #364.

Are you running a steering stabilizer? If you are, you might want to take it loose or remove it for a while. Drive your rig without it and see if the DW returns. If it does return, go back and recheck all of the steering and suspension joints according to 364. This will confirm that the actual problem has been repaired.

DW is a very tough repair to diagnose. There are so many causes and potential causes. A little wear here and some over there adds up to DW. Sometimes changing one or two parts will be enough to stop it, but it is still lurking from the wear of the parts you did not change out. In any event, DW is an experience we can all live without.

We hope you respond to this. It's all a learning experience and this is a good place to learn.

Happy Trails
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:06 PM   #396
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I have an '04 rubi who had death wobble. I replaced the u-joints and the brake rotors and somehow that cured it...
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:56 AM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkagad View Post
I have an '04 rubi who had death wobble. I replaced the u-joints and the brake rotors and somehow that cured it...

I have an 04 Rubi as well and the wobble just started - I had the tires rotated and balanced which calmed it down a bit - I picked up a new MOOG track bar bushing (not installed yet) and I replaced the steering stabilizer/dampener with a Monroe SC2928 from the local NAPA shop which brought it back to normal - I broke 2 universal pullers - cheap ones trying to pop the tapered bolt out - used a pitman arm puller (Stu-Offroad.com thanks ) and it popped right out.
Now it's just a wait and see issue...
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:03 AM   #398
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I have a completely stock 04 X, didn't have the death wobble until a month ago when I hit 45K miles, about to get the balance and alignment checked tomorrow hopefully that will fix it
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:22 AM   #399
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by Sprecballs View Post
I have a completely stock 04 X, didn't have the death wobble until a month ago when I hit 45K miles, about to get the balance and alignment checked tomorrow hopefully that will fix it
!!!!
I hope you will read this before you head to town. You've got about half of your plan right.

Before you leave the house, go back to post 364 above and read and then print it. Take it with you to the alignment shop (hopefully a Jeep experienced shop).

Have the tech read it BEFORE putting your rig on the machine and ask him to check it according to what he has just read. This will save you and him time and money fixing your DW.

After reading 364, you will have a whole different attitude (I hope) and understanding of your problem. You may need it! Chances are, the tech will appreciate the enlightenment if he has little or no experience with Jeep Steering and suspension.

DW is nothing to mess with. It can be very difficult to repair, but you need to know where and HOW to look or you will spend wads of money and lots of time tearing your hair out. Keep your hair.

Good luck and Happy Trails.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:22 PM   #400
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well I figured out that not only was the steering stabilizer shot so are the shocks... it's bobbing around like "uncle buck's" car - too funny
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:34 AM   #401
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I'm hoping to cure my dw today. I recently lifted my jeep so I know it needs an alignment and I ordered a re1600 adjustable front track bar to accommodate the rear. I'm concerned about my tie rod being at fault...guess I'll find out after the install and alignment.
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:30 PM   #402
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Issue solved!
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:51 PM   #403
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05 LJ death wobble

I installed a Full Traction 3.5" Lift a couple of years ago. No Death wobble ever. 6 months ago I added a winch and front bumper. My front end sagged a little so I added a 3/4 spacer to the front springs. After a month or so I started getting death wobble. It got progressively worse. I couldn't find anything loose or worn so I replaced the Full Traction trackbar with a Currie johnnie joint type. No help. Got the front tires rebalanced. It felt a little better but not much. 47 MPH would start it with the slightest bump. I saved up and replaced the Front upper and lower control arms with Rokmen johnnie joint type. No more death wobble. It seemed to tightened up the whole front end. I set them to the stock lengths. Even though I haven't had any death wobble since I replaced the control arms I'm not convinced Its really fixed yet. Its only been a month. I would like to have a proper alignment done by a shop. We have a 4 wheel parts here in Las Vegas that seems to lift a lot of wranglers so I'll talk to them I guess. I don't know anything about the whole caster angle, pinon angle thing so Ill have to trust their judgement.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:43 PM   #404
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by Spotszilla View Post
I installed a Full Traction 3.5" Lift a couple of years ago. No Death wobble ever. 6 months ago I added a winch and front bumper. My front end sagged a little so I added a 3/4 spacer to the front springs. After a month or so I started getting death wobble. It got progressively worse. I couldn't find anything loose or worn so I replaced the Full Traction trackbar with a Currie johnnie joint type. No help. Got the front tires rebalanced. It felt a little better but not much. 47 MPH would start it with the slightest bump. I saved up and replaced the Front upper and lower control arms with Rokmen johnnie joint type. No more death wobble. It seemed to tightened up the whole front end. I set them to the stock lengths. Even though I haven't had any death wobble since I replaced the control arms I'm not convinced Its really fixed yet. Its only been a month. I would like to have a proper alignment done by a shop. We have a 4 wheel parts here in Las Vegas that seems to lift a lot of wranglers so I'll talk to them I guess. I don't know anything about the whole caster angle, pinon angle thing so Ill have to trust their judgement.
Hi there,
Sounds like you have the typical DW syndrome and are having the usual problem finding your "REAL" problem.
Doing what you have done so far, you have covered several of the bases but you may have skipped a couple on the way that are (at least in my opinion) critical.

To save going through it all again, I will suggest you go up to post 364 here and read and even print out the article. There you will find the info for how to check for DW, how to find the real problem(s), and how to align your rig after you think you have the real problem(s) repaired.

There is some changes to the alignment specs that many alignment people don't know about with a lifted Jeep that you will want to make the alignment tech aware of BEFORE they work on it. I would ask them to read the article and do another inspection to satisfy you and them that it is ready for an alignment.

Again, there are some things to do while inspecting a Jeep that most alignment guys won't be aware of and will leave you thinking they are dummies when you get your Jeep back and it still shakes you like a flea on a dog.

I would be especially cognizant of looking at the bolt holes in the mounts of your control arms and the track bar. I know you already replaced the parts, but these holes nearly always are ignored as just being there and they are a prime source of further DW.

Checking the frame end (the tower) of your track bar would be another place I would double check. The tapered hole can get wallowed out and will cause you a lot of grief finding it. Also check the frame for flexing there.

We had an LJ that came from Las Vegas that had been in several shops there and three more here in Grand Junction before we got it that the other shops had given up on. I don't know if 4Wheel Parts was one of them. They deal with so many Jeeps, I would think they know what they are doing, but that's just a belief... not a fact. I have seen some very good techs get eaten up by this. It's not a "Oh, here's your problem." type of repair. You have to have a deeper understanding of suspensions and steering than the average tech will ever have.

Good luck with this. Please let us know what they find.
Happy Trails.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:52 PM   #405
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i've been through post 364, very useful
but i still have a quick question

i have a 2.5" lifted TJ, im suffering from DW
a new steering stabilizer masked it for not long, now it started back
every thing mentioned in post 364 looks in good shape except some play in the
steering box (not between box and body, its inside the box itself) with a small knock

please advice if such play can cause a DW (agian considering other areas are pretty fine)

thanks
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:14 PM   #406
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When I installed the Currie track bar I had to drill out the old holes to fit the new track bar bolts so I know those holes are OK. I did pay attention to the holes for the control arms and they also looked good.I had DW with the old Track bar and the new didn't make much difference except its a lot stronger track bar. I'm going to concentrate on my ball joints etc. I drove a stretch of freeway that always would set off DW yesterday. The front end and steering wheel stayed straight and didn't move for a change no DW. I should have changed out the upper control arm bushing. I want to be sure the control arms were the problem and not a bandaid.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:09 PM   #407
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Death Wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio View Post
i've been through post 364, very useful
but i still have a quick question

i have a 2.5" lifted TJ, im suffering from DW
a new steering stabilizer masked it for not long, now it started back
every thing mentioned in post 364 looks in good shape except some play in the
steering box (not between box and body, its inside the box itself) with a small knock

please advice if such play can cause a DW (agian considering other areas are pretty fine)

thanks
Hi Scorpio,

Like many we've tried to help over the net, you have given about a drop in the bucket for information that we can work with, but we'll give it another shot.

The first thing I would ask you (and no offense at the question, please) is;
It sounds like you are doing your own work. Are you an experienced tech or an interested owner?

The reason for the question is that it gives some reference to who's doing the inspection and how much they may know about what they are doing. With DW, this is not just for curiosity. DW is a very serious and dangerous problem and seldom does a "weekend tech" have the skills to make the judgements necessary to get the job done (again, no offense intended).

In fact, I would say that 95% or more of "Experienced" techs are not qualified to work on this problem without being supervised by someone who is. Suspension and steering, especially ones that have been modified, require someone with far above average understanding to diagnose and repair DW. (Granted that an inexperienced person can always get lucky-- and that's what happens most often with DW)

There are ways to hide the problem... temporarily. That gets you credit for a "repair" when it is undeserved. Just go back in this forum and you'll find that "changing tires, a new steering stabilizer or two, or an alignment magically "fixed" the problem." Those are not repairs I would trust!

Too often, DW is not just one thing, but an accumulation of several small things. Quite often, changing one of the most worn parts will be enough to eliminate the DW... for a while. What appears to be a small amount of wear in a ball joint, added to more wear in the other ball joints and steering joints is enough.

If your steering gear is showing an over abundance of internal wear, that may very well be at least a major contributor to your problem. I have seen a steering gear loose on the frame do the same thing you describe, so I will tell you, "yes, that may be your problem or at least a strong contributor". For this, I would still highly recommend having the whole system rechecked by a highly qualified tech... and your best bet would be a well seasoned alignment tech who works with this stuff day-in and day-out. (preferably one with lots of Jeep experience)

Steering and brakes should not be an experiment when it comes to repairs. You can of course learn from a qualified tech doing the work, but your life and those around you depend on having the abilities to steer and stop reliably. Losing your steering ability because of DW at highway speeds put a lot of people in jeopardy without warning. Take the repair of DW serious. It might save a life... and yours will be the first one in line!

Let us know what you find out and how you repair your DW. It's always good to hear new stories with a good outcome and having others read of your "fix" may get some enlightenment about what to expect with theirs.

Good luck and Happy Trails.
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:29 AM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onejsmith View Post
Hi Scorpio,

Like many we've tried to help over the net, you have given about a drop in the bucket for information that we can work with, but we'll give it another shot.

The first thing I would ask you (and no offense at the question, please) is;
It sounds like you are doing your own work. Are you an experienced tech or an interested owner?

The reason for the question is that it gives some reference to who's doing the inspection and how much they may know about what they are doing. With DW, this is not just for curiosity. DW is a very serious and dangerous problem and seldom does a "weekend tech" have the skills to make the judgements necessary to get the job done (again, no offense intended).

In fact, I would say that 95% or more of "Experienced" techs are not qualified to work on this problem without being supervised by someone who is. Suspension and steering, especially ones that have been modified, require someone with far above average understanding to diagnose and repair DW. (Granted that an inexperienced person can always get lucky-- and that's what happens most often with DW)

There are ways to hide the problem... temporarily. That gets you credit for a "repair" when it is undeserved. Just go back in this forum and you'll find that "changing tires, a new steering stabilizer or two, or an alignment magically "fixed" the problem." Those are not repairs I would trust!

Too often, DW is not just one thing, but an accumulation of several small things. Quite often, changing one of the most worn parts will be enough to eliminate the DW... for a while. What appears to be a small amount of wear in a ball joint, added to more wear in the other ball joints and steering joints is enough.

If your steering gear is showing an over abundance of internal wear, that may very well be at least a major contributor to your problem. I have seen a steering gear loose on the frame do the same thing you describe, so I will tell you, "yes, that may be your problem or at least a strong contributor". For this, I would still highly recommend having the whole system rechecked by a highly qualified tech... and your best bet would be a well seasoned alignment tech who works with this stuff day-in and day-out. (preferably one with lots of Jeep experience)

Steering and brakes should not be an experiment when it comes to repairs. You can of course learn from a qualified tech doing the work, but your life and those around you depend on having the abilities to steer and stop reliably. Losing your steering ability because of DW at highway speeds put a lot of people in jeopardy without warning. Take the repair of DW serious. It might save a life... and yours will be the first one in line!

Let us know what you find out and how you repair your DW. It's always good to hear new stories with a good outcome and having others read of your "fix" may get some enlightenment about what to expect with theirs.

Good luck and Happy Trails.
thanks Onejsmith for your quick responce

no i'm not an expert specially in DW
in the part of the world i'm living now, experts specially in this field
are very less, the way they do it (even the agency) they start by replacing tires and steering stabilizer and continue replacing from there untill they draw a hole in your pocket further more workmanship is sky high so i try to do as much as i can in my backyard

any way i'll replace the steering box as a start

thanks
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:14 AM   #409
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I changed my tires to 33x12.5 and 15 wheels.. death wobble is gone! Went to a local 4x4 shop and they wanted to replace all my steering components. I was thinking about it, but decided to put the money into tires and wheels. DW is gone and it feels so good on the road now. I felt like I got the best deal, new wheels, tires and no more death wobble.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:52 AM   #410
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by rezn View Post
I changed my tires to 33x12.5 and 15 wheels.. death wobble is gone! Went to a local 4x4 shop and they wanted to replace all my steering components. I was thinking about it, but decided to put the money into tires and wheels. DW is gone and it feels so good on the road now. I felt like I got the best deal, new wheels, tires and no more death wobble.
I can't say for sure, but I would have at least a second opinion done on the steering components.

Changing your tires and wheels only relieved pressure on the trigger of your DW. Your steering and/or suspension are the components that allow DW to happen in the first place. If they are in good shape, you will never have DW in the first place.

Your profile doesn't give any stats to get specific with, but I would highly recommend you at least read post 364 above and learn more about your problem... and you do still have a problem. For now, it is just waiting for the right circumstances to give you the big surprise.

If the picture is correct, you drive a TJ. Running 33" tires, I would say it is a lifted Jeep... likely 4".

When you changed the tires and wheels, depending on the changes in tire diameter, width, and wheel off-set, you changed the Steering Axis Inclination (SAI) and what is known as scrub radius. This change was just enough to temporarily change the dynamics to keep you from more rude experiences. "Temporarily" being the operative word. You may have had a tire separating or a bent wheel that caused the DW too.

Many things trigger a DW, but they are not the cause. You can't accuse a bump in the road for your DW, it just put the thing in motion.

Have the Jeep looked at by a very qualified alignment specialist. Ask them to read a copy of post 364 so they have the knowledge of what to look for. The Jeep steering and suspension has some odd things you need to know about from either experience or having been told about. Not knowing before hand, you will not look for these little quirks. Who looks for elongated bolt holes?? (I do... and you find them more often than you would think) These quirks are often the real reason for your DW.

Good luck with this and Happy Trails.
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Old 09-28-2011, 03:23 AM   #411
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Well, I hate to say it, but you are correct. On day 3, wobble has started creeping back. Very strange phenomena this DW. I am going to have to change out everything. Last try before I spend a lot of money will be an alignment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by onejsmith

I can't say for sure, but I would have at least a second opinion done on the steering components.

Changing your tires and wheels only relieved pressure on the trigger of your DW. Your steering and/or suspension are the components that allow DW to happen in the first place. If they are in good shape, you will never have DW in the first place.

Your profile doesn't give any stats to get specific with, but I would highly recommend you at least read post 364 above and learn more about your problem... and you do still have a problem. For now, it is just waiting for the right circumstances to give you the big surprise.

If the picture is correct, you drive a TJ. Running 33" tires, I would say it is a lifted Jeep... likely 4".

When you changed the tires and wheels, depending on the changes in tire diameter, width, and wheel off-set, you changed the Steering Axis Inclination (SAI) and what is known as scrub radius. This change was just enough to temporarily change the dynamics to keep you from more rude experiences. "Temporarily" being the operative word. You may have had a tire separating or a bent wheel that caused the DW too.

Many things trigger a DW, but they are not the cause. You can't accuse a bump in the road for your DW, it just put the thing in motion.

Have the Jeep looked at by a very qualified alignment specialist. Ask them to read a copy of post 364 so they have the knowledge of what to look for. The Jeep steering and suspension has some odd things you need to know about from either experience or having been told about. Not knowing before hand, you will not look for these little quirks. Who looks for elongated bolt holes?? (I do... and you find them more often than you would think) These quirks are often the real reason for your DW.

Good luck with this and Happy Trails.
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:34 PM   #412
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Cold Weather DW?

First time poster, long time stalker....I have an 05 Rubicon Unlimited with a Pro Comp 4" lift (on it when i bought it). Last year in CO when the weather started to get cold i got DW for the first time. The Jeep had Pirelli Scorpion ATR's on it. I had read that those tires got bad flat spots so i stepped up and bought some 285/75/16 Goodyear Duratracs. I hadn't really had a problem until recently.

When i pull out of the garage with the outside temp around 50 degrees and head down the country road where i can get up to 55 right away, i experience DW at 45 MPH right away...slow down it goes away...speed up comes right back....This is where it gets interesting. After I drive a few miles and i guess the tires warm up i can go right passed 45mph no problem.

When i get in the Jeep after work with the temps in the 80's I drive a few miles before i am able to get up to speed, but again no problems with DW (just a very slight slimmy).

So any advice on cold weather DW?

Thanks
William
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:48 PM   #413
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wheels and tires

Onejsmith,changing tires and wheels will not change SAI. That is a fixed angle that changes only when parts are changed or the axle is bent in a straight axle front end. I use this angle everyday locating bent parts in accident cars/trucks from body shops. Now scrub radius is a totally different story when changing tire/wheel sizes and wheel offset. Understanding what happens to the handling of a car/truck when a different offset wheel than stock is tuff enough for pros to understand let alone a novice. A person can mess a nice handling car/truck or tire wear by installing the wrong offset wheel. Case in point, 88,89,or 90 Chevy pick-ups when they first came out. 245/75r16 tires were expensive so people would put on old style Chev wheels with 235/75r15 tires on the new trucks. Inside shoulder on the tire in about 6 months,so the truck would be taken in and aligned,tires rotated. Another 6 months same problem,again and agian. Until someone figgered out they put the wrong offset wheel on that style truck and changed it back to the stock offset, problem solved.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:50 AM   #414
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by Hwkscr View Post
First time poster, long time stalker....I have an 05 Rubicon Unlimited with a Pro Comp 4" lift (on it when i bought it). Last year in CO when the weather started to get cold i got DW for the first time. The Jeep had Pirelli Scorpion ATR's on it. I had read that those tires got bad flat spots so i stepped up and bought some 285/75/16 Goodyear Duratracs. I hadn't really had a problem until recently.

When i pull out of the garage with the outside temp around 50 degrees and head down the country road where i can get up to 55 right away, i experience DW at 45 MPH right away...slow down it goes away...speed up comes right back....This is where it gets interesting. After I drive a few miles and i guess the tires warm up i can go right passed 45mph no problem.

When i get in the Jeep after work with the temps in the 80's I drive a few miles before i am able to get up to speed, but again no problems with DW (just a very slight slimmy).

So any advice on cold weather DW?

Thanks
William
Sometimes I feel like a broken record... peat and repeat and peat and repeat.

Changing your tires and wheels only relieved pressure on the trigger of your DW.

Your steering and/or suspension are the components that allow DW to happen in the first place.

If they are in good shape, you will never have DW in the first place.

Sorry for the yelling, but there seems to be a lack of attention here sometimes.

Let me put it another way... if your steering and suspension components are all working as designed and are not worn... you won't experience any DW no matter how bad your tires are worn, out of balance, separated, bent rims and all. You can remove your steering stabilizer and give it to a hobo and you still will not have DW.

I run all the time without a steering stabilizer on a 4" Teraflex long arm lifted TJ. I do not have DW... ever! If your components are working properly, DW cannot happen. (But then I don't have a track bar at either end)

Now, with all that being said, tires are often the items that trigger a DW. They begin a rhythm that builds into the DW. You CAN change tires and the DW will go away... temporarily. When the tires wear to the point that the first set did, it will return.

The loose steering and/or suspension components are what allow the tires to wear that way. (along with alignment issues)

Tires are the "soft spot" that will wear generally faster than your steering and suspension parts (barring abuse or defect). Lubricated steel will outlast rubber tires believe it or not.

As I have pointed out many times here, DW is seldom caused by one component. If you are lucky, the one that is first (generally speaking) to go bad is the track bar. This is by no means always!

But we have seen things like perfectly good components (good bushings and ends) and still have DW. The problem turned out to be on the track bar mount on the axle end when the bolt and nut had become loose and the mount holes had elongated allowing the track bar to move quite a bit.
Who looks for elongated holes when doing an inspection? Trust me, I do!

As to your cold weather DW. Go back to my article on post 364. Print it out and read it. If you are not a very experienced technician, take it with you to a very good alignment shop. Ask them to read it BEFORE ever looking at your Jeep. Trust me, 99.99% of them have never checked a steering and suspension like this before. They will (or should) know how to do the normal tie rod end and ball joint checks. Anyone who does alignments for a living and is any good at all will know this.

But unless they have a big time lot of experience with a Wrangler with DW, they don't know the other things to check for and they will have hell to pay before they learn it on their own.... if they ever do.

DW is not your every day "just fix it" repair. It has foiled more shops than have overcome it without the proper training. That includes most Jeep dealers too. They just keep adding new parts until something changes, but they don't know what they did to make it quit. That is called "experimenting at your expense".

If you have a steering stabilizer, disconnect or remove it until you are satisfied that you no longer have DW. It is a bandaid on a defect in the engineering of the Jeep Wrangler front end. An honest and knowledgeable engineer will tell you that.

When they go to align it, make sure they set the caster at +4 degrees (+ or - one degree). If they insist on setting it at the stock spec of +7, you may still have some instability and even DW. Your front drive shaft will love you for it too.

If all your components are tight like they should be, your tires can be square and you won't have DW. The ride will still suck though.

Let us know how it comes out. We can all learn more than we know.

Happy Trails.
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:00 AM   #415
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Sai

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Originally Posted by 98dyna View Post
Onejsmith,changing tires and wheels will not change SAI. That is a fixed angle that changes only when parts are changed or the axle is bent in a straight axle front end. I use this angle everyday locating bent parts in accident cars/trucks from body shops. Now scrub radius is a totally different story when changing tire/wheel sizes and wheel offset. Understanding what happens to the handling of a car/truck when a different offset wheel than stock is tuff enough for pros to understand let alone a novice. A person can mess a nice handling car/truck or tire wear by installing the wrong offset wheel. Case in point, 88,89,or 90 Chevy pick-ups when they first came out. 245/75r16 tires were expensive so people would put on old style Chev wheels with 235/75r15 tires on the new trucks. Inside shoulder on the tire in about 6 months,so the truck would be taken in and aligned,tires rotated. Another 6 months same problem,again and agian. Until someone figgered out they put the wrong offset wheel on that style truck and changed it back to the stock offset, problem solved.
I applaud your knowledge. When I went back and reread that, what I wrote was wrong about the SAI. Good catch!

What I meant to say was that if you change all these things, you can change it. Tires and wheels alone won't.

That kind of stuff is usually deeper than most people have understanding for though.
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:18 PM   #416
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also check axle u joints got one rusted tight going to change tonite let you know if it works jeep love it live it wheel the crap out of it &fix it
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:04 AM   #417
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So glad I'm not the only one... like the word "suffered" that someone posted about their DW. Mine didn't start until I put in 2" spacers that I thought, at the time, would be a benign and simple way to get a lift. Since July, I've replaced my front and rear sway bars, steering stabilizer, and brakes, etc. It's been aligned twice and seemed to run ok until after my 2700 mile road trip. Now I'm back to the drawing board and am thinking about saving up for a 3" or 4" lift for all the grief this suspension issue has created.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:53 AM   #418
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by serotina View Post
So glad I'm not the only one... like the word "suffered" that someone posted about their DW. Mine didn't start until I put in 2" spacers that I thought, at the time, would be a benign and simple way to get a lift. Since July, I've replaced my front and rear sway bars, steering stabilizer, and brakes, etc. It's been aligned twice and seemed to run ok until after my 2700 mile road trip. Now I'm back to the drawing board and am thinking about saving up for a 3" or 4" lift for all the grief this suspension issue has created.
Whoa there a minute. You're frustration is getting ahead of good sense. Let's look this over a little.

Like we've all said a couple dozen times here, DW is probably one of the most difficult repairs you'll ever deal with. Without more details, it is impossible to tell you for sure what your next move should be, but we'll try to do the best we can with what you have offered.

Adding a real lift at this point would not be recommended. You need to find and repair your problem first. Whoever is giving you advice about replacing sway bars to help fix DW is someone you should cross off your list of advisers. You could have changed your socks and got the same effect.

First thing, go back to post 364 in this forum. Print it out and read it. Then take it to the best alignment shop you can find and ask them to read it before looking at your Jeep. They may appreciate knowing some things about checking a Wrangler steering and suspension that they likely haven't experienced before. Then have them do the check of all the components to see what they find. Then have the repairs done and have it aligned again. If they do it correctly, you should have no further problems.

After that you can make your decisions about putting a real lift on it.

Good luck and Happy Trails.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:01 PM   #419
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wobble

So why not remove the 2" spacers and see if the wobble goes away. I would bet money it doesn't, that something else is the cause. Now wouldn't it be smarter and cheaper to find the cause of the wobble first, then start replacing parts. If you just throw parts at it you will spend alot of money and never know what the cause was and if it is really gone. Good luck.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:23 PM   #420
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So, I got under the Jeep and checked everything out over the weekend. Put it up on jack stands and checked the ball joints for movement. Didnt find anything with movement.

I took it into 4wheel parts today to have them give it a once over. This is what they said:
Joint at pitman arm is developing play as well as ball joints.
Heim joint on track bar at frame side has play.
Front lower control arm bushing have a lot of play in them.

So my question is should i pull the trigger on an HD steering setup? If so which is a good option (Currie, Rusty's etc.) I have never liked the Pro-Comp lift b/c of the stiff springs. What about replacing the lower control arms with another (sky Jacker, Rubicon Express, Tera-flex) What are the thoughts on Pro-Comp LCA's?

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