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Old 05-20-2012, 04:01 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by Kimball2 View Post
Hey Jerry, U their
i talked to u the other day about the front end kinda floating around,u said it may be the toe-in, the front tires are out a little, i found the page about doing your on toe-in adjustments, pretty simple, the only thing is,my tie rod has no adjusting sleeve on it, it just has a clamp on each end??
loosen the clamps and the rod will adjust both wheels at the same time. Should be a pretty long bar one connects to the drivers side tie rod and I believe the othe ends attaches to the drag link. use your tape and see how far out they are.

This one is very helpful to me, due the fax that I believe it was the toe causing my wobble. When I made a minor adjustment to the toe. The wobble almost went completely away. Maybe the alignment tomorrow will take all of it out.

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Old 05-21-2012, 07:53 AM   #602
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by Baldy View Post
loosen the clamps and the rod will adjust both wheels at the same time. Should be a pretty long bar one connects to the drivers side tie rod and I believe the othe ends attaches to the drag link. use your tape and see how far out they are.

This one is very helpful to me, due the fax that I believe it was the toe causing my wobble. When I made a minor adjustment to the toe. The wobble almost went completely away. Maybe the alignment tomorrow will take all of it out.

When you add (or even subtract) any kind of lift to a Jeep you change several angles that joints have been used to working at... including the toe angle. Toe angles will often be the trigger that fire a DW.
Measuring your toe with a tape measure will give you an idea of where you're at, but I wouldn't rely on that method for "Fine Tuning" an alignment... especially after adding a lift. You need more information than just setting the toe.
With DW, you want to have someone with a lot of experience go through and check the entire front end and the suspension joints to be sure there are or are not other issues.
I urge you to read the article:
Death Wobble
Take the time to watch the Alignment process that Teraflex will take you through. You will learn a lot about what to look for and how to find and talk to an alignment guy to be satisfied they know what they are doing.
Have a GOOD/Jeep experienced alignment shop check it all out. If they do it right, you'll KNOW what you need to do to cure DW.
Good luck and Happy Trails.

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Old 05-22-2012, 05:25 PM   #603
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DW deluxe, after my tire slipped off the edge of the pavement DW started, didn't have a problem before that. I'm a first time keep owner, about 4 months now, love my jeep but the DW and having to drive around 100 miles a day is getting crazy, any suggestions what to do first. Checked for play in tie rods and bearings but all is good there, chrome rims have no balance weights on any of the tires, pulling my hair out !!!!!
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:04 PM   #604
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Thumbs up Death wobble definate fix!

I had the death wobble going on...mainly in left turns at high speeds (aka the interstate). It was scary to say the least. I would have to slow down to about 40 and nearly get run over for it to straighten out. I decided the 2000 TJ of mine probably needed a steering stabilizer. I ordered a heavy duty Monroe stabilizer off of amazon for about $34. Problem fixed instantly and still going strong a few months later. For the people that say there is something else going on and the stabilizer is just "masking it" or whatever... I inspected everything in my steering/suspension system and found no problems, that doesnt mean there isnt a problem there...I just dont have the time or money to find something that discrete if it is something else. What I do know is that the new stabilizer has worked for me. I hope this helps!
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:36 AM   #605
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If it were bad stabilizers that caused DW I would having it.... my stabilizer has 229k driven mile and who knows how many miles towed behind a motor home. My stabilizer has absolutely no resistance when I push or pull on it, and my shocks are the same way
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:01 AM   #606
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Originally Posted by Semperfi62 View Post
DW deluxe, after my tire slipped off the edge of the pavement DW started, didn't have a problem before that. I'm a first time keep owner, about 4 months now, love my jeep but the DW and having to drive around 100 miles a day is getting crazy, any suggestions what to do first. Checked for play in tie rods and bearings but all is good there, chrome rims have no balance weights on any of the tires, pulling my hair out !!!!!

I did have the DW after installing my lift. Took it and had it aligned and installed a rancho steering dampner. also took it and had the tires balanced, took it on the highway over numerous bumps got it up to about 75 and so far all is good.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:09 AM   #607
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by Semperfi62 View Post
DW deluxe, after my tire slipped off the edge of the pavement DW started, didn't have a problem before that. I'm a first time keep owner, about 4 months now, love my jeep but the DW and having to drive around 100 miles a day is getting crazy, any suggestions what to do first. Checked for play in tie rods and bearings but all is good there, chrome rims have no balance weights on any of the tires, pulling my hair out !!!!!

Sorry to hear of your problems with DW. With what you have described, this may be a real trial to trace down the actual problem(s). The tire slipping off the pavement may or may not have anything to do with it.

What I don't see in your profile is whether or not your Jeep is lifted or still stock. Either way though I would start by looking to the possibility that you may have bent a rim. A bent rim can contribute to DW although it is NOT the ultimate cause.

My best recommendation would be for you to read my article on DW at:
Death Wobble

There you will find the majority of the actual problems that will need to be looked for. A couple of them you will read about are not widely known by most technicians, so if YOU know about them going into a shop, you can judge the techs by what they suggest first. If the first thing they say is either "tire balance" or "steering stabilizer", run-- don't walk away. Btw, Steering "stabilizer" is a misnomer. They are "dampers"... not "stabilizers".

If you are lucky, you may find that a simple alignment will take care of the problem. If you have a lift, depending on how high the lift, you may need to tell the shop to back off on the caster... the article will explain.

I would still ask them to do a full inspection of ALL the steering joints and suspension joints just to be sure. Again, the article will give you some things for them to look for that the average shop won't know about. If you like, feel free to print out the article for them to read so they will know what to look for.

DW is often not easily diagnosed unless you have a specific joint that is the main cause so an very experienced alignment tech is your best bet. Someone who has extensive alignment experience should know how to look for all the possibilities from reading tire wear to the actual joint wear. The specific problems with Wrangler steering (especially the track bars) even experienced techs don't know about will trip them up, so YOU need to ask them to look for these issues BEFORE they do their inspection. After reading the article you will be better informed than many of them you will run into.

Good luck with your repairs and Happy Trails.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:36 AM   #608
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Newbi question on this

So I just got an 04 tj and it has 31s. The steering is what I would call " loose". It's just not as tight as other vehicles I have driven. Is this typical of a jeep or the beginning of this DW?
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:53 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by Climb59 View Post
So I just got an 04 tj and it has 31s. The steering is what I would call " loose". It's just not as tight as other vehicles I have driven. Is this typical of a jeep or the beginning of this DW?
People confuse many other things for DW. That feel more loose than other vehicles. You'll get used to it.

Trust me you'll know when it is DW.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:25 AM   #610
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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
People confuse many other things for DW. That feel more loose than other vehicles. You'll get used to it.

Trust me you'll know when it is DW.
Agreed! You can try a new steering stabilizer to take away some slop perhaps. But indeed, there is no mistaking death wobble.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:32 AM   #611
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Death Wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Climb59 View Post
So I just got an 04 tj and it has 31s. The steering is what I would call " loose". It's just not as tight as other vehicles I have driven. Is this typical of a jeep or the beginning of this DW?
The Jeep Wrangler steering should be no more "loose" than any other vehicle.
That being said, it would seem that you don't have DW YET.

As steering and suspension joints wear, DW will eventually raise its ugly head. Sometimes it will be allowed by only one joint and sometimes it is an accumulation of 2 or more parts wearing to the point where the right harmonics set up by a simple bump in the road will trigger DW.

With what you describe, I would definitely have the steering and suspension checked out thoroughly by an alignment shop that has a lot of Jeep specific experience. The way you know if they are the ones to check your Jeep out is to know more than they likely will.

Go to: Death Wobble and read through the article. You will learn a lot from it and will be armed with questions to ask the alignment tech. If they can't answer the questions, you need to have them read the article... if they refuse take your Jeep somewhere else. They are "stuck on stupid" and you don't need them.

Good luck with your steering and your Jeeping.
Happy Trails.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:05 PM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onejsmith

The Jeep Wrangler steering should be no more "loose" than any other vehicle.
That being said, it would seem that you don't have DW YET.

As steering and suspension joints wear, DW will eventually raise its ugly head. Sometimes it will be allowed by only one joint and sometimes it is an accumulation of 2 or more parts wearing to the point where the right harmonics set up by a simple bump in the road will trigger DW.

With what you describe, I would definitely have the steering and suspension checked out thoroughly by an alignment shop that has a lot of Jeep specific experience. The way you know if they are the ones to check your Jeep out is to know more than they likely will.

Go to: Death Wobble and read through the article. You will learn a lot from it and will be armed with questions to ask the alignment tech. If they can't answer the questions, you need to have them read the article... if they refuse take your Jeep somewhere else. They are "stuck on stupid" and you don't need them.

Good luck with your steering and your Jeeping.
Happy Trails.
While I agree with most of what you say I think you are definately missing an important point, well two actually.

While I am not an expert of any kind I can tell you that it definately feels more "loose" than most vehicles. The short wheelbase combined with the steering geometry and solid front and rear axles makes it feel more loose than vehicles with independant suspension and a longer wheelbase.

Secondly DW is often fixed by correctly tightening/torqueing suspension components, proper wheel alignment and/or balancing. DW is not alway caused by worn components.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:25 AM   #613
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Death Wobble

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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
While I agree with most of what you say I think you are definately missing an important point, well two actually.

While I am not an expert of any kind I can tell you that it definately feels more "loose" than most vehicles. The short wheelbase combined with the steering geometry and solid front and rear axles makes it feel more loose than vehicles with independant suspension and a longer wheelbase.

Secondly DW is often fixed by correctly tightening/torqueing suspension components, proper wheel alignment and/or balancing. DW is not alway caused by worn components.
I will ask one simple question for you to think about.
If something is NOT loose or worn... what is allowing your front end to go into a death wobble?

Too many people on this thread have "heard" and "read" BS so long that they believe it. Think about that question. If your suspension and steering are working correctly, do you ever experience DW?

Many things can trigger a DW but have zero to do with ALLOWING it to happen. If properly aligned and tight throughout, a steering system and suspension will not suffer a DW no matter how unbalanced your tires, bent your wheels, or any of the other "causes" you hear of. Shake your head and get rid of all the junk thinking.

DW is a symptom of one or more worn or loose components. Once the harmonics get in tune, you have DW. If all is well... no DW will befall you.

Re-torquing some particular joints may stop the DW. But when you find the ones I speak of, if tightening stops the DW, you either got very lucky and caught it in time or you need to look a little deeper (especially into that joint).
Read the article: Death Wobble again and you may find the one I am talking about and then you will also know how to repair it if you have the necessary tools and know-how.

I am sorry to get "preachy" and a little cranky with you, but I get tired of ignorance getting in the way of helping others. There is a cure for ignorance... learning from those who do know and not telling them they don't understand. When you have repaired as many Jeeps with DW as I have, we can have a laugh about this.

I offer you help. What you do with it is entirely up to you.
Happy Trails.
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:58 AM   #614
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I will ask one simple question for you to think about.
If something is NOT loose or worn... what is allowing your front end to go into a death wobble?

Too many people on this thread have "heard" and "read" BS so long that they believe it. Think about that question. If your suspension and steering are working correctly, do you ever experience DW?

Many things can trigger a DW but have zero to do with ALLOWING it to happen. If properly aligned and tight throughout, a steering system and suspension will not suffer a DW no matter how unbalanced your tires, bent your wheels, or any of the other "causes" you hear of. Shake your head and get rid of all the junk thinking.

DW is a symptom of one or more worn or loose components. Once the harmonics get in tune, you have DW. If all is well... no DW will befall you.

Re-torquing some particular joints may stop the DW. But when you find the ones I speak of, if tightening stops the DW, you either got very lucky and caught it in time or you need to look a little deeper (especially into that joint).
Read the article: Death Wobble again and you may find the one I am talking about and then you will also know how to repair it if you have the necessary tools and know-how.

I am sorry to get "preachy" and a little cranky with you, but I get tired of ignorance getting in the way of helping others. There is a cure for ignorance... learning from those who do know and not telling them they don't understand. When you have repaired as many Jeeps with DW as I have, we can have a laugh about this.

I offer you help. What you do with it is entirely up to you.
Happy Trails.

Please re-read my post again.

From your post it specifically sounded like DW occurs only when parts are worn and I quote:
Quote:
As steering and suspension joints wear, DW will eventually raise its ugly head.
I don't dispute the fact that you have fixed many a DW neither am I trying to pick a fight. I am merely saying that often it can be fixed by properly tigtening/torqueing components, especially if the DW occurs after a fresh lift install. In you last post you do pertinently mention "loose" components and with that I agree and that was mostly my point - DW can often be fixed without having to replace components.

This is from my experience, which granted isn't all that much, but not from what I have heard or rear somewhere. Correctly loosening, settling and then tightening/torqueing front-end components should be the starting point as it costs but a few minutes of your time.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:59 PM   #615
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I hit a large bump on the highway going 70 mph and i got DW. First time in my vehicle. However, I did lift it last year.

I am now systematically going through the different steering and suspension parts on the front end.

I found two TRE's that had up and down and lateral play not consistent with how a TRE should move. The grease boots were also shot but that has nothing to do with DW. I hit the same bump the other day and at 70 mph and got DW again, but, it recovered more quickly. I found at least a couple of symptoms to the problem.

I am now examining the TRE at the Pitman arm and the TRE (long arm) at the passenger side wheel. I am also checking the bushings and ball joint on the front track bar.

Next is to inspect the passenger side hub bearing and ball joints followed by the driver side hub bearing and ball joint.

Once all is inspected and/or replaced, I will get an alignment and get the front and rear axles centered.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:12 AM   #616
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Yeah i had a horrible DW in my '03 tried everything to fix it and nothing worked until i got new tires. definitely start with replacing the tires. they can warp and send your jeep into a DW.
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:30 AM   #617
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Unaltered Wranglers

Just want to refresh the few of you out there that have unaltered original wranglers. DW does occur, reguardless of altering a vehicle. So, to the guys/gals that say that there is an exact science to this, no there is not. I can time it when I hit 55 mph, my front end is going to shake. past that i'm fine, under it i'm fine. Normally tire wear is the factor. I got my first dw at 20K on the original factory tires. Changed them and everything was fine. Which the argument that Goodyear specially makes tires for jeep is bs. Cheap is cheap is cheap. Whomever gets the best bid for a company wins!!!!! I was selling jeeps at the time (2001-2004). Goodyears tires were as good as the potholes they were crumbling in. Believe it or not, their non factory tires are better than the ones they put on the vehicles they represent! THAT is a FACT! Bring on the insults!
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:51 PM   #618
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death wobble

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Just want to refresh the few of you out there that have unaltered original wranglers. DW does occur, reguardless of altering a vehicle. So, to the guys/gals that say that there is an exact science to this, no there is not. I can time it when I hit 55 mph, my front end is going to shake. past that i'm fine, under it i'm fine. Normally tire wear is the factor. I got my first dw at 20K on the original factory tires. Changed them and everything was fine. Which the argument that Goodyear specially makes tires for jeep is bs. Cheap is cheap is cheap. Whomever gets the best bid for a company wins!!!!! I was selling jeeps at the time (2001-2004). Goodyears tires were as good as the potholes they were crumbling in. Believe it or not, their non factory tires are better than the ones they put on the vehicles they represent! THAT is a FACT! Bring on the insults!
No offense friend, but there are some flaws in those "facts".

The one that will raise up to bite you is that you "Changed them and everything was fine." Tires are only a very small part of DW. They are NOT the cause.

Think about this... if your steering and suspension are working properly you will never have DW. That is the truth.

Tires CAN set up the harmonics that begin a DW, but if your steering and suspension are working properly and in good alignment even bad tires and the other "triggers" cannot set it off.

You might want to have yours checked by a very qualified shop for some worn or damaged parts. If they are truly good, they will find something.

I invite you to read Death Wobble for a lot of good info on DW.

Good luck and Happy Trails.
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:53 AM   #619
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Just bought my first jeep. Love it, but after having it about 2 weeks I was driving home from work and hit a bump pretty hard and got what HAS to be the death wobble. I have never felt anything like it before! It has only happened one other time since then. It is not lifted at all, I have a rough country steering stabilizer to put on but by reading this it sounds like I should check out the rest of the front end as well?
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:53 PM   #620
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I had the death wobble on my stock 2006 wrangler x and I replaced the steering stabilizer for a more heavy duty one and it went away. I havn't had it back since
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:07 PM   #621
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Needing some help

Bought a 05 L J Rubicon, 4 inch suspension lift, 2 inch body, running LT255/85 R16 tires on it. All seemed fine until I hit a rough bump on the road and got death wobble. Inspected suspension and found a bad tie rod end on the pit man arm, inspecting further found pit man arm and steering box badly worn so replaced it all. Took it to an alignment shop, talked to them about what was going on and it seemed they knew what I was talking about. But when I got it back it seemed worse. Also installed dual stabilizers and an adjustable track bar since the factory one showed wear. Everything else has checked out good, tires all balance and rotated, nothing else is showing wear but I still have death wobble when I get up between 45-50 mph, any suggestions?
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:20 AM   #622
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Bought a 05 L J Rubicon, 4 inch suspension lift, 2 inch body, running LT255/85 R16 tires on it. All seemed fine until I hit a rough bump on the road and got death wobble. Inspected suspension and found a bad tie rod end on the pit man arm, inspecting further found pit man arm and steering box badly worn so replaced it all. Took it to an alignment shop, talked to them about what was going on and it seemed they knew what I was talking about. But when I got it back it seemed worse. Also installed dual stabilizers and an adjustable track bar since the factory one showed wear. Everything else has checked out good, tires allow balance and rotated, nothing else is showing wear but I still have death wobble when I get up between 45-50 mph, any suggestions?
Remove the dual stabilizers - with your tyres you definately need only one.

Check your lower and upper control arm bushes. If they are fine loosen them all - bounce the front -end and the torque them to the correct specs. It might sound impossible that something so simple can fix it - it is not.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:42 AM   #623
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death wobble

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Originally Posted by jb77 View Post
Bought a 05 L J Rubicon, 4 inch suspension lift, 2 inch body, running LT255/85 R16 tires on it. All seemed fine until I hit a rough bump on the road and got death wobble. Inspected suspension and found a bad tie rod end on the pit man arm, inspecting further found pit man arm and steering box badly worn so replaced it all. Took it to an alignment shop, talked to them about what was going on and it seemed they knew what I was talking about. But when I got it back it seemed worse. Also installed dual stabilizers and an adjustable track bar since the factory one showed wear. Everything else has checked out good, tires all balance and rotated, nothing else is showing wear but I still have death wobble when I get up between 45-50 mph, any suggestions?
Sorry about your experience with DW. You are not alone on this. DW can be one of the most aggrevating problems you'll ever have. Jeep Wranglers are some of the most plagued by this and there are some little quirky things you must know about or you may fight this for a long and expensive time.

To make this short, my first recommendation is for you to read and even print my article on DW at: Death Wobble

There you will find the answers to 99.9% of all DW causes and the usual cures.

The alignment shop you're going to is not aware of too many things "Jeep" to be of much help to you. They MAY be coachable (or not), but in their present knowledge they have a lot to learn.

My first question for them would be "what are the present alignment stats on your Jeep?". The reason is that the caster for a Jeep with a 4" lift is not the 7 degrees (+or - 1 degree) that the stock Jeep should be set at. If they are any good at checking for worn parts and are satisfied yours are OK, they likely don't know about the caster changes on a lifted Jeep. Read the article and then ask them what they found. If they didn't know before, clue them in or find a "Jeep qualified" alignment shop. (they can be hard to find)

I wish you well with this. You'll find the article is not all positive about people who "repair" Jeeps with this problem. You may need to find someone you can trust and then "educate" them so they will know what to look for. Take the time to watch the Teraflex Alignment videos. They explain a lot in detail about the alignment process. The lift they are working on is likely more advanced than yours but the process is still the same. The time spent will make you understand better when you are working with a tech.

Good luck and Happy Trails
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:48 AM   #624
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Would not replacing control arms cause dw? That's the last thing i didn't do since I have to replace all the bushings and joints in the ones I bought
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:03 PM   #625
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good info
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:54 AM   #626
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Is the death wobble a slight shimmy, or is tit something that shakes your head loose? 00'' TJ with 56K miles, shakes a little around 55-65, but nothing too bad.. Haven't had it aligned yet..
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:25 AM   #627
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Originally Posted by Familyman22
Is the death wobble a slight shimmy, or is tit something that shakes your head loose? 00'' TJ with 56K miles, shakes a little around 55-65, but nothing too bad.. Haven't had it aligned yet..
Something that makes you feel like if you don't stop right now the front end is going to shake apart, and cause you to die in a fiery explosion leaving behind a mushroom cloud like that of a nuclear bomb....
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:45 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by darkproximity View Post
Something that makes you feel like if you don't stop right now the front end is going to shake apart, and cause you to die in a fiery explosion leaving behind a mushroom cloud like that of a nuclear bomb....
This...
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:49 AM   #629
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Originally Posted by Rolf View Post
Remove the dual stabilizers - with your tyres you definately need only one.

Check your lower and upper control arm bushes. If they are fine loosen them all - bounce the front -end and the torque them to the correct specs. It might sound impossible that something so simple can fix it - it is not.
Tried all that, read the death wobble article. I still have it but could not adjust the caster, so ordered adjustable lower control arms. Hope that does it.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:37 AM   #630
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So far I have replaced both sway bar links, the steering stabilizer and even tried the rear end track bar trying to solve this issue. Nothing has worked thus far. I think I will try replacing the front track bar. I have also sent a letter into NHTSA as this is rediculous to be spending this much money to fix an 06 with only 60k miles on it.

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