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Old 08-29-2012, 03:09 PM   #691
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Thanks for setting us straight, and trust me as soon as school starts every single inch of the front end will be under scrutiny. Nothing will get past me! But the new steering stabilizer cant hurt

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Old 08-29-2012, 03:16 PM   #692
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Just read your other thread and you don't have death wobble. When you get death wobble, you have to just about come to a stop before it will quit shaking. This doesnt mean you dont have the beginnings of it. Anytime someone does not know if they have death wobble, you can bet they don't. There is no doubt when you do have it. You still need to check everything in the front end for loose or worn components. You don't want to experience DW.

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Old 08-29-2012, 03:18 PM   #693
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Ok thanks man, and you can bet that Ill be tearing apart that entire front end and I will replace any worn parts
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:47 PM   #694
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This is a little off topic, but I'll share it anyway. someone might find it interesting.
My other car is a '99 Volvo AWD big, full sized station wagon. For a while whenever it rained out my car would shoot to the right whenever I drove through a puddle. Really hard, like I hit black ice or something-Scary. When I corrected it would feel like the steering wasn't connected for a split second. Front Struts, mounts, tires were all new. I had pretty much rebuilt the front end myself and had it aligned within a couple months of this problem starting. I brought it back to the alignment shop to let them double check it. They couldn't find anything wrong. My work was good and the alignment was still spot-on. The Problem persisted though. Finally I went for my yearly inspection and told the guy running the inspection. Turns out one of my rear axle trailing arms were bent. Since the car wasn't fishtailing nobody, including myself bothered to look at the rear. What pisses me off is that it's an AWD with independent rear suspension, the alignment shop was supposed to be doing a 4 wheel alignment for the extra $50. when they double checked they only did the front. I could have been killed.
The trailing arm must have been bent when the car was impounded by the city.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:16 PM   #695
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Just want clarify because im a new wrangler owner just as of 3 mo. And i think im experiencing DW when i go over 60 mph on interstate ..i just replaced drivers side stabilizer but still having the issue. So i have not done an alignment yet, i will give that a go. I have a 00 TJ with a 4 banger btw..
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:44 PM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OIIIIO4bangin
Just want clarify because im a new wrangler owner just as of 3 mo. And i think im experiencing DW when i go over 60 mph on interstate ..i just replaced drivers side stabilizer but still having the issue. So i have not done an alignment yet, i will give that a go. I have a 00 TJ with a 4 banger btw..
You would know for a fact you have death wobble and not just a little shimmy. Death wobble shakes the entire jeep and makes it feel like its gonna shake its self apart.

Ive had it 3 times this month and the only way to stop it is to slow down to about 20 mph then go back on your way
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:03 PM   #697
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I have an 06 Unlimited and I definitely had DW. I had just purchased the TJ and drove into town about 30 miles. Happened to me about 8 times during my entire trip. DH took it to 4WD to have it checked. They aligned it, put on a HD steering stabilizer and I have not had it since. Also since then I have changed tires and increased the rims to 17" and this has also eliminated the shimmy on the highways. So for now, I am DW free, but I will always be aware it could happen.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:47 PM   #698
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Be aware that a steering stabilizer will only mask a death wobble and tires do not cause death wobble they only initiate it. There are other components that are not correct that cause the death wobble. Just because it has gone away does not mean it is gone. It just may be masked for the moment.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:03 AM   #699
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tires do not cause death wobble they only initiate it.
Not in my case,my Jeep was horrible with DW,everything was tight and in good working order (balance and alignment fasteners).
I put new tires on and it is gone,I have tried many many times to make it occur but my girl drives true.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:38 PM   #700
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Be aware that a steering stabilizer will only mask a death wobble and tires do not cause death wobble they only initiate it. There are other components that are not correct that cause the death wobble. Just because it has gone away does not mean it is gone. It just may be masked for the moment.
I had read that the stabilizer is a mask, but I had everything checked out and they saw nothing. So for now, I can only hope it was the alignment. It had been towed a lot of miles behind an RV and lived on a very bad road. I am crossing my fingers but well aware it might happen again. I watch my speed and I stay off the highways as much as possible. I appreciate all the information I can get.
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:13 AM   #701
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Whats the point then????

i don't get it??? DO ALL JEEPS have this issue once lifted or modified?? IF SO what do you do to make sure you don't have that issue AT ALL!!!! im just asking because we all like to lift the jeeps and modify them. i also have a 3 inch RCD lift and have had to tighten up the track bar and 5 wheel balances and STILLL ONCE in a while between 50-55 experience a lil shimmy which is basically a DW waiting to be unleashed...i kinda ask myself Whats to point of lifting it to not be able to drive it after a while because of bad engineering.. not trying to knock my jeep BUT who wants to keep a vehicle that you cant drive anymore once its modified???

BTW: this is what ive done yesterday...shes in the ER right now getting HEAD gasket changed
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:15 AM   #702
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BTW i also had a EMU HD stabilizer installed and it didnt really do JACK for the shimmy... besides make the steering a lil tighter THATS ALL I GOT...
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:54 AM   #703
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I had DW on my 03 Rubicon, I hit about 55 mph on the highway and the Jeep felt like it was about to shake itself apart. Had to pull into the run out lane in order to stop the car, I drove on the shoulder until the next exit. These are the replacements I've made:

1. HD steering damper and alignment, DW still there.

2. Adjustable track bar, realignment, DW still there.

3. Replace all bushings, DW still there.

4. Replace 35" tires with 33's. DW still there but not quite as severe.

5. Install RE adjustable control arms and realign, DW gone.

Which is not to say that the Jeep drives well now, it doesn't. It's extremely squirrelly at 55 mph or higher and it feels like it wants to have a DW but it hasn't done it yet. But I'm always waiting for it to start again.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:19 PM   #704
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lifted jeeps are not highway vehicles..

actually, lifted anything lol
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:23 PM   #705
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I am strongly thinking of dropping my '03 Wrangler Sport next week and having the Meineke guys fix my DW. I've been doing a fair amount of road travel, and between 55-60 mph the Jeep shakes like a cheap hula dancer - it's crazy.

I will be in Memphis next week, so it will let me have time to drop it off and not have to worry about spare car/rides/etc.

While they are in there I am going to have the TPS replaced as well. I am continuing to get the "rev" and idle, followed by the check engine light appearance.

I figure enough is enough... time to do it before winter.

I'm going to read through this thread more tonight... hope that a one-time fix corrects the DW. I don't want to have to do five things to fix one problem.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:26 PM   #706
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slammed jeep? lol
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:40 AM   #707
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I've been subscribed to, and following this thread for a long while, so I'll toss my experience in.

I've got a 97 TJ that I fought DW for YEARS with. Well, not really fought- more like tolerated and learned to deal with it. It was part of the jeep experience. I knew when it would happen, what it felt like when it tried to get started, and how to handle it and continue on my way when it happened. It sucked. And through the help of this thread, I finally fixed it completely, and far less expensively than I had expected.

DW started for me long ago after I was wheeling up a sticky, muddy, rutted hill during an episode of freezing rain. I had to get a running start and spin the tires all the way up to get out of the hole I was in. But at the top of the hill the front fell in a rut and it directed my passenger from tire into a stump. I hit the stump pretty hard, nothing broke, but the bumper was folded over at the frame rail right in front of the tire and the alignment was shot. Death wobble started after that.

Shortly after that I went from stock to 33x12.50s and installed a OME lift with a 1" body and taller motor mounts. Had everything aligned and DW was gone for a few years. But then it returned.

By this point, the jeep was a spare car and only occasionally driven, so I just dealt with it. But it was so bad that my wife wouldn't drive it and the kids got scared riding in it. I had always suspected that the impact with that stump was the root cause of my DW, and expected to be buying new tires (they are old - 2003- but still half half their tread) replacing control arms, etc before it was over. After deciding enough was enough, I got serious about correcting it, and had it fixed in a weekend.

Rather than starting with tires, which was my first thought since I have one tire that has 6 ounces of weight on one side, and my DW was reproducible at certain speeds on flat pavement, I followed the advice in this thread and did a close inspection to the various TRE joints in the front end. While none were catastrophically loose, I found a tiny amount of wiggle in the one at the frame end of the track bar. Track bar replaced - DW still there, just a little harder for it to come through.

I looked closer, and found a tiny bit of looseness in the TRE at the pitman arm. Plus, because of that stump crash I didn't really trust the one at the passenger front anymore either. I decided i was replacing them all to be sure. So I ended up replacing the drag link (cause one tre is attached to the bar) and since I was replacing the tie rod anyway, went ahead and did the zj tie rod. When I put it all together, and did the tape measure alignment (again, thanks to this forum) I took it out for a test. DW was gone. All. The. Way. Gone. I drove it around town before I even put the stabilizer back on, and no DW. I still have the tire with 6 oz of weight, and I can still feel that bad tire vibrate a little at certain speeds, but it's just a tire vibe for a second, not a precursor to DW. I bought the tires in 2003, and they still have half their tread. I really didn't want to drop $800 on new tires just hoping it would fix DW. I already stuck centramatic wheel balancers in the wheels as a easy way out - and it didn't help at all cause it's a bad tire, not balance. But hey, now I don't have a bouncy ride when I pull back on pavement with mud clumps on my tires anymore.

So that's my story. Sorry it's long, but I had DW on and off (mostly on)for 10 years and just dealt with it because I didn't know where to start, and parts are expensive to just replace and hope. If you have DW, my advice is to follow the advice in this thread from happy trails and get under the jeep. Find a problem before you just start buying parts to hope it helps. Yes, the track bar is usually suspect 1, but the TREs with just the tiniest of slop in a couple of them were my culprit, and I never would have replaced them without following this thread for so long. I'd have spent thousands on tires, control arms (cause I swore that bang messed one up), and who knows what else before I found the cause!

Now, I need to drive the ret if the tread off those tires before they dry rot.... And i guess i need to swap the steering gear box, since it's been leaking for about 10 years, too.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:46 AM   #708
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lifted jeeps are not highway vehicles..

actually, lifted anything lol

True enough, that's why the Jeep isn't my DD. But unless you want to trailer your Jeep every time you go off-roading, highway driving is somewhat unavoidable.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:16 AM   #709
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I had my '03 Wrangler serviced last week. I hit 80k miles, and wanted to get my TPS replaced, and work on the DW.

My local Meineke put a new front left tire on (right was replaced this summer after multiple random flat tires), did an alignment and tune-up. So far the DW has gone from a 10 to a 2 - it's still a bit shaky 55-60 mph, but nothing too problematic.

I asked more than once about the play in the track bar (which another mechanic at the same garage had noticed in the summer), and the guys said they didn't think it was cause for the DW.

So... I feel good, but should I have done anything with the track bar. It's just a touch of play in it, so I'm not sure if it would do any good.

Regardless, I'm now at 81k and still loving my Wrangler! Everything appears to be in good shape with the guys at the garage, so I'm hoping to keep this baby awhile longer!
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:59 PM   #710
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I found some more good info on DW in a write up here. What Causes Bumpsteer?"

Among the normal things discussed here on the Forum, this write up also throws out a few more things that can add to the problem like tire weight and small amounts of backspacing on wheels.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:22 AM   #711
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Originally Posted by jiminmanjr View Post
I had my '03 Wrangler serviced last week. I hit 80k miles, and wanted to get my TPS replaced, and work on the DW.

My local Meineke put a new front left tire on (right was replaced this summer after multiple random flat tires), did an alignment and tune-up. So far the DW has gone from a 10 to a 2 - it's still a bit shaky 55-60 mph, but nothing too problematic.

I asked more than once about the play in the track bar (which another mechanic at the same garage had noticed in the summer), and the guys said they didn't think it was cause for the DW.

So... I feel good, but should I have done anything with the track bar. It's just a touch of play in it, so I'm not sure if it would do any good.

Regardless, I'm now at 81k and still loving my Wrangler! Everything appears to be in good shape with the guys at the garage, so I'm hoping to keep this baby awhile longer!
If there is ANY play in your trackbar, take care of it. It is the #1 primary cause of DW, and it doesn't take much play to set it off.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:57 AM   #712
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I had DW on my 03 Rubicon, I hit about 55 mph on the highway and the Jeep felt like it was about to shake itself apart. Had to pull into the run out lane in order to stop the car, I drove on the shoulder until the next exit. These are the replacements I've made:

1. HD steering damper and alignment, DW still there.

2. Adjustable track bar, realignment, DW still there.

3. Replace all bushings, DW still there.

4. Replace 35" tires with 33's. DW still there but not quite as severe.

5. Install RE adjustable control arms and realign, DW gone.

Which is not to say that the Jeep drives well now, it doesn't. It's extremely squirrelly at 55 mph or higher and it feels like it wants to have a DW but it hasn't done it yet. But I'm always waiting for it to start again.
This is so interesting. I went through exactly the same process as yours to fix my DW. I drive an 05 Rubicon and installing adjustable control arms and realign plus a good tires/wheel balance took care of the issue. Thank you for posting. I went through 2 months of hell.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:15 PM   #713
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I found that my tires were out of round yesterday. Had them trued up and its not as bad. Tires are still some what egg shaped so once i replace them i believe it will be gone. I drove on a different set of tires and no DW. Cant wait for tax season......
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:28 PM   #714
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I found that my tires were out of round yesterday. Had them trued up and its not as bad. Tires are still some what egg shaped so once i replace them i believe it will be gone. I drove on a different set of tires and no DW. Cant wait for tax season......
How did you have them trued up?
I've got a tire that I believe is out of round. I've had a balance and it balanced to perfect 0, it still shakes me.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:40 PM   #715
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Not to many people actually do it (in fl anyway). Basically they use a machine to spin the tire slowly and shave tread off the tire and cut the high spots off to make the tire more uniform and cemetrical. I would say you would just have to call around... id start with the mom amd pop shops.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:02 PM   #716
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:22 PM   #717
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I have DW again, but i know that it is the control arm bushings. The polyurathane did hold up better than the stock rubber bushings. When I originally removed the lower control arm bushings the rubber just slide out of the metal case because they are not designed for off road use and the articulation just tore them up. Now it is time to slide in the new polyurathane bushings until i can afford good quality flex joints. New shocks the first time around did help smooth out the ride and stabilize body roll when stopping , starting, and cornering. My opinion is that DW is not caused by just one thing, but basically something loose in the front end, or everything loose in the front end like in my original case of DW.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #718
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I have DW again, but i know that it is the control arm bushings. The polyurathane did hold up better than the stock rubber bushings. When I originally removed the lower control arm bushings the rubber just slide out of the metal case because they are not designed for off road use and the articulation just tore them up. Now it is time to slide in the new polyurathane bushings until i can afford good quality flex joints. New shocks the first time around did help smooth out the ride and stabilize body roll when stopping , starting, and cornering. My opinion is that DW is not caused by just one thing, but basically something loose in the front end, or everything loose in the front end like in my original case of DW.
Did you say that the stock control arm bushings are not designed for offroad use? That is ridiculous.
There is no chance that I will run poly buahes in the control arms - I've seen what happens when you do.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:12 AM   #719
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Originally Posted by Rolf

Did you say that the stock control arm bushings are not designed for offroad use? That is ridiculous.
There is no chance that I will run poly buahes in the control arms - I've seen what happens when you do.
The really arent cause you can over flex them and they will break or bend cause the joints dont give
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:03 PM   #720
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From what I heard from my mechanic, the problem is not the the tires or rims. The problem is the bushings in the lower control arms. Hear me out! The bushings are only designed to handle certain weights at a specific level. When you lift your Jeep you change the center of gravity on the Jeep, therefore putting more pressure on different areas, not built to sustain them. On top of that, we throw big tires and rims on the ends and the jeeps are not built to compensate for that weight. So in short, i say change the bushings in the control arms, mine had to be torched out so prepare to go to a shop. I had massive DW and was white knuckled every where i went while i had it, but after I got the bushings replaced, all is good and well. That was 4 years ago and i haven''t had an issue since! So check it out, and if Im wrong, at least youll have new bushings!

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