Gas, Ethanol, and Octane - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 08-23-2013, 02:15 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
Gold Miner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: way up thar
Posts: 529
Gas, Ethanol, and Octane

All of the stations and pumps in my general vicinity carry gasoline mixed with ethanol. This really sucks and I would pay more for Ethanol-free fuel if it were available... but it isn't.
My octane choices are typically 85, 87, and 91. I'm well aware that my 4.0 likes lower grade fuel and always choose the 85.
Given the fact that it's an Ethanol bastardized gasoline - should I be considering the mid-grade 87 octane in this case for better efficiency/performance?
Incidentally, the small engine repair shops up here are booming businesses since the Ethanol really messes with 2-strokes. I buy my chainsaw fuel canned (Ethanol-free) and pre-mixed because of this.
Just wanted to run the octane/Ethanol gasoline issue past the fuel gurus here to gain some insight.
Thanks.

__________________
'01 Sahara, Original Owner
BDS, OME, Metalcloak,
JKS Disco, Rough Trail, Kargo Master, Engo Quadlux.... bla bla bla, never done
Ghost Creek Mine, Owner ... Mitchell/Yooper Placer Mine, Owner
Only thing we have to fear is, fear itself....................................... and bears
Gold Miner is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 02:27 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 35
It is my understanding that ethanol increases the effective octane rating of the fuel. So if you ar using 85, continue to use it.

pefrey is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 04:30 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 448
Ethanol is a fancy name for alcohol added to gas. It makes less MPG and less BTU per gallon. While fresh- it will mix/combine with gas and any water, trash is usually hanging around in the water too, so now you have a suspension for your filter to deal with. After setting a few weeks it will separate and make swill that plugs up carbs on small engines. The only way I have found to prevent it is to use sta-bil gas stabilizer, and double the amount to keep it fresher longer. There are others additives that work I am sure. If you own a motorhome, and don't drive it much-you better add some at every time you gas up. I can attest to the quality 2-stroke racing synthetic oils for motocrossers. That oil mixed with premium gas & sta-bil will still start and run after 18-24 months. My chain saw, weed eaters, etc all get it and start 2nd pull next spring. If you think 10% sucks-wait until the burocrat$ shove 15% up you back side.
kawzak is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 05:13 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Orlando
Posts: 33
Ethanol in the small percentage that it presents itself in most fuels doesn't change anything. Now if you're talking E85, then rubber fuel line corrosion, fuel filters, etc must be safe for ethanol. Otherwise, on our setups on a daily driver, there is no need to change anything for E10 or E15 even. Factory recommended octane though, is to run 87 (R+M)/2 octane. That is what I run, it's also the the lowest grade that is available around here.
Franciscoapg is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 05:20 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,631
I drive my jeep maybe a 2-3x a week, I keep topping it off when down 1/4 tank(or fill up at 3/4 tank full). Should I get into the habit of using up all my gas then fill it up or keep doing what I do now? All gas up in my corner have up to 10% ethol pre mixed in at the pump... Any thoughts since were on the gas topic?
RevCo666 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 05:30 PM   #6
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Ibuildembig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fruitland, Missouri
Posts: 8,483
Ethanol sucks bigtime. 90 percent of our fuel has it too and the mileage difference is significant but the price isnt compared to non-alcohol fuel.

I do have a inside though My neighbor works on most of the fuel pumps and he told me who has a 100 percent gas pump thats 93
Ibuildembig is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 05:40 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 426
It's not that bad. California gasoline has 11% ethanol and gets about 97% of the mileage of 100% gasoline. Oddly enough, that is only because alcohol (either ethanol or methanol) has only about HALF the fuel value of gasoline, so a tank of alcohol takes you 1/2 as far as the same measure of gasoline. An 11% addition of alcohol degrades the fuel about 3%.

The difference is that alcohol burns cooler when mixed with air. Which is also why it increases the octane rating in gasoline, by cooling peak cylinder temperatures.

When alcohol is mixed with pure oxygen versus air, it burns way hotter than gasoline/oxygen, which is why the Nazi's selected alcohol and liquid oxygen to fuel the V2 rockets of WW2, which were the first ICBMs.
__________________
Gary
1967 Kaiser Commando
2001 Grand Cherokee WJ
2003 Rubicon TJ
KaiserJeep is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 05:42 PM   #8
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Ibuildembig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fruitland, Missouri
Posts: 8,483
Its a 5-7 mpg difference here
Ibuildembig is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-23-2013, 10:19 PM   #9
Jeeper
 
flash1034's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 225
Ethanol is one of the biggest scams being played on us by our crappy politicians.


Flash
flash1034 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-24-2013, 12:05 AM   #10
Jeeper
 
JRoweMDN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Keystone Heights
Posts: 331
I recently did an experiment because I had non ethanol available. I drove a tank in my wife's explorer with ethanol gas on the interstate and checked mileage with ethanol and got 21.9 driving 80 almost all interstate. I filled up ethanol free for th return trip and averaged 24.2 for the return trip. I did the same route 2 times in 3 weeks and got the same results so I know if there is less than 10% price difference I save money. P
JRoweMDN is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-24-2013, 12:46 AM   #11
Jeeper
 
UFOtestpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,822
I'll leave this here just in case anyone is interested. Select your state at the top, and look for your city or nearby town, which are listed alphabetically. Enjoy!

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR
__________________
For some, it is easier to kill the light inside of themselves than it is to fight the darkness all around them.
UFOtestpilot is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-24-2013, 01:32 AM   #12
TJZ
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
TJZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Az.
Posts: 1,752
Wow ! Only 13 PURE Gas stations in my state and most of them are Racing Fuel distributors. Damn.
TJZ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-24-2013, 01:32 AM   #13
TJZ
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
TJZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Az.
Posts: 1,752
Cool link,UFO !
TJZ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-24-2013, 03:31 AM   #14
Jeeper
 
UFOtestpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,822
Yeah that site has been useful to me.

There are several in my area that aren't listed on that site, but they are mostly either near one of the race tracks or a marina. Some unadvertised independents have non-ethanol here but there's no guarantee that their fuel is any good.
__________________
For some, it is easier to kill the light inside of themselves than it is to fight the darkness all around them.
UFOtestpilot is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-24-2013, 05:37 AM   #15
Jeeper
 
cork1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFOtestpilot View Post
I'll leave this here just in case anyone is interested. Select your state at the top, and look for your city or nearby town, which are listed alphabetically. Enjoy!

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
Awesome link!!

A couple stations around me. Should be awesome for my '66 Plymouth Satellite! Maybe I can get better than 13-14mpg's when driving 30-35mph!!
cork1958 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-24-2013, 07:22 AM   #16
Newb
 
osucowboyntx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North Texas
Posts: 5
Oklahoma has a lot of ethanol free stations & even advertise it on their signs. Unfortunately, all or nearly all stations in DFW have crapinol gas. Allegedly for air quality reasons since it supposedly burns cleaner.

I switched to Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment from Sta-Bil in my Waveblasters & Sea Doo 3D unless I can fill them up in OK with ethanol free gas. So far so good.
__________________
2013 JKU Sahara Orange Crush
2008 Ford F350 CC Dually 4x4 Silver
2004 Honda Civic - the work car
2006 TJ Unlimited Impact Orange - sold
2001 TJ Red - sold
1987 YJ Red - the first, gone but not forgotten
osucowboyntx is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-22-2013, 09:47 PM   #17
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1
Will using ethanol hurt the engine or fuel filter? I am not at all technical.
Doolittle is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-22-2013, 10:15 PM   #18
Jeeper
 
Verf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Western Massachusetts
Posts: 474
If u can avoid ethanol, do. It deteriorates rubber and plastic. If left sitting for any period of time, it start to breakdown, degrade and make a slime/crud of itself, clogging everything. Particularly susceptible are lawnmowers and such that sit more often than run. I live in the crap state of Massachusetts. 10% ethanol year round. Why? It was added to stop gas line freeze ups. I'm fairly certain mid summer temps haven't frozen in 10,000 years or so. Yet here we are. I gotta move....
__________________
'14 Willy's Edition Unlimited in Anvil
'06 Rubi Unlimited, bone stock...for now. 3" Zone lift
'94 Mitsu VR4, highly modified twin turbo
'71 Stingray convertible, number matching & mint
RetiredUSMilitary
"I'd rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with the saints..."
Verf is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-22-2013, 11:13 PM   #19
Newb
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: southwest Wisconsin
Posts: 11
The link doesn't include all stations that offer ethanol-free gas. Kwik Trip premium is a favorite in south-central Wisconsin for chainsaw and motorcycle people. Check the pumps for an ethanol-free sticker near the highest octane option.
andymidplains is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-22-2013, 11:57 PM   #20
Newb
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: southwest Wisconsin
Posts: 11
Go to toptiergas.com, and pick your gasoline brands from their list. Click on retailers for the brand names that carry the best gas in all pumps at all outlets.
andymidplains is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 07:58 AM   #21
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,877
First not all alcohol is ethanol

All alcohol has an -O-H substituted for an -H on the simple hydrocarbon base

Methanol single carbon CH4 with one H now an O-H
Ethanol two carbon CH3-CH3 with one H now an O-H

The energy from combustion of hydrocarbon is making H2O and CO2 the O ready in alcohol means already lost some of the combustion energy ie already partially burnt

We use it because of the agriculture lobby and political payola and it sums but that is what power politics and corruption is all about

PS only idiots burn their food and we never did till the corn lobby

If it was actually a good idea they would not need laws to require it
Digger84 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 08:08 AM   #22
Jeeper
 
KevinNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Morris County NJ
Posts: 329
Thanks EPA and "renewable" fuel standards. I believe year round gas has 2-3% ethanol in it in my area. That jumps 10% to 12-13% from October to April (winter blend). I guess time will tell how many engines get junked with the new 15% requirement. My guess is a lot.
KevinNJ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 08:34 AM   #23
Jeeper
 
Dpilo22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bald Hill, Long Island
Posts: 197
We saw a huge example of how screwed up this was after hurricane sandy on Long Island. There was a surplus of gas at the depots but because of the difficulty in getting ethanol to the depots there was a huge gas shortage where people were waiting in lines that took hours and usually ran out. I remember sleeping at a gas station after the 6th day of the shortage because they were getting gas at 3am.

The entire shortage was because of ethanol.
Dpilo22 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #24
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,877
Actually the blockade mayor doom berg imposed is what screwed Long Island

But at the FAA center on Long Island they brought in tanker trucks and filled up the fed employees for free for the duration I know cause I have a bud who works there

Most of the Long Island shortage was a self serving political shut down by nanny state doom berg Aka I want all your guns and big colas
Digger84 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 12:58 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
Dpilo22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bald Hill, Long Island
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger84 View Post
Actually the blockade mayor doom berg imposed is what screwed Long Island But at the FAA center on Long Island they brought in tanker trucks and filled up the fed employees for free for the duration I know cause I have a bud who works there Most of the Long Island shortage was a self serving political shut down by nanny state doom berg Aka I want all your guns and big colas
I agree totally and although most of the depot tanks were full, he blockaded the ethanol. I hate this place, can't wait to get out!
Dpilo22 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
JRoweMDN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Keystone Heights
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFOtestpilot View Post
I'll leave this here just in case anyone is interested. Select your state at the top, and look for your city or nearby town, which are listed alphabetically. Enjoy!

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR
There is also an app for the iPhone that will locate the closest station.
JRoweMDN is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 09:15 PM   #27
Jeeper
 
MosesTJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: jackson, ga
Posts: 1,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpilo22 View Post
I agree totally and although most of the depot tanks were full, he blockaded the ethanol. I hate this place, can't wait to get out!
theres always Texas!
MosesTJ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-23-2013, 09:53 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
Dpilo22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bald Hill, Long Island
Posts: 197
Moses, you ain't kidding. When I finish this degree I'm doing law school in Florida and then it's either Tallahassee, Texas or Louisiana. I'm done with the crazy BS up here. I can't even take the majority of my firearms to the range anymore or drink a large soda. If I could leave tonight I would!
Dpilo22 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-24-2013, 05:53 AM   #29
Jeeper
 
MosesTJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: jackson, ga
Posts: 1,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpilo22 View Post
Moses, you ain't kidding. When I finish this degree I'm doing law school in Florida and then it's either Tallahassee, Texas or Louisiana. I'm done with the crazy BS up here. I can't even take the majority of my firearms to the range anymore or drink a large soda. If I could leave tonight I would!
law degree? Hell I guess if you can't beat them, join them right?lol. Are you going to be attorney or a robot lawyer that knows the vague laws taught in most law schools?
MosesTJ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-24-2013, 09:44 AM   #30
Jeeper
 
Skellington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North west arkansas
Posts: 49
I work at an ethanol free gas station in oklahoma. I have ran ethanol in my jeep twice and hated the gas mileage. If I had a choice I never would have pumped that crap. I lucky that I have 6 stations within 15 miles of me that are ethanol free.

Skellington is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Download our Mobile App

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC