Gear/Differential Question - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 10-15-2008, 01:29 PM   #1
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Gear/Differential Question

I have a 4" Suspension and 3" Body lift, 33"x12.5" AT tires on a stock 1998 Sahara (30C Front, 35 Rear). I had 4.56 gears put in the rear many years back (I never did the front and obviously never used my 4WD since I didn't have the money at the time) but I have recently been doing some towing (small enclosed trailer + 2 race bikes)... the rear differential just stripped the pinion completely a couple days ago.. made some godawful noises. didn't do any damage to the differential housing, but is this because of the ratio I installed and towing?

I obviously need to fix it, but is 4.56 the right gearing for just day to day driving? (I don't offroad as much as I used to anymore, if at all), and I doubt I will get bigger tires/etc for this anyway.

Also, the guy I'm taking it to quoted me 2300$ for parts + Labor (to do both front and rear). Is that about right? I don't have the knowledge/tools to do the work myself so I can understand having to pay for good work, but I don't want to get taken to the cleaners.

Any help would be great

ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:05 PM   #2
MOz
Jeeper
 
MOz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Poconos
Posts: 2,484
IMO - I'd say you blew the rear due to the excessive weight and stress of running larger tires and towing. The 35's are notoriously weak so too much stress and they implode. The gear ratio is appropriate for those size tires though.

$2300 seems very high for a gear change unless you had toasted something else in the rear.

__________________


It ain't no fun unless you get some of it on you.
MOz is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:22 PM   #3
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOz View Post
IMO - I'd say you blew the rear due to the excessive weight and stress of running larger tires and towing. The 35's are notoriously weak so too much stress and they implode. The gear ratio is appropriate for those size tires though.

$2300 seems very high for a gear change unless you had toasted something else in the rear.
Thanks for the info.

I asked a friend who called a couple of his friends who work in truck shops and they said 2300$ is a "GOOD" price if the guys know what they are doing.

If you think 2300$ seems very high, what would you think a good price would be for front and rear gear swap? Supposedly nothing else was destroyed in the rear, though.
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:34 PM   #4
IITYWTMWYBMAB

WF Supporting Member
::WF Administrator::
 
4Jeepn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 10,572
Images: 5
Gears are what 600 for a set with install kits. Figure 8hrs of labor at 100 an hour so another 800 price should be around 1400-1600 for gears, not 2300. Also why rebuild a bad axle. Option #2 go to junk yard find TJ dana 44 avg price $1200 heck you can get new front and rear JK axles for $3500 with gears and lockers.. have to redo the mounts, and get new rims, but far better than what you have.
__________________
79.96.85.00.01.97.00.97.93.97.95.94
CJ.XJ.CJ. TJ. TJ.ZJ. TJ.TJ. ZJ.ZJ.YJ. XJ
4Jeepn is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:37 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 30
I'm having my entire differential repaired with new Dana parts, pinion shaft, carrier and on and on. My mechanic, very reputable, says $1200.00 parts and labor. I'll keep my fingers crossed that he's right.
hank1 is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 02:53 PM   #6
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,166
Images: 2
4.56 is perfect for 33" tires on a daily driver TJ with a manual transmission, and $1200 to regear both axles is right where it should be. That $2300 quoted to ClemsonJeeper is nothing short of outrageous.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 03:41 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
badmpr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Jeepn View Post
Gears are what 600 for a set with install kits. Figure 8hrs of labor at 100 an hour so another 800 price should be around 1400-1600 for gears, not 2300. Also why rebuild a bad axle. Option #2 go to junk yard find TJ dana 44 avg price $1200 heck you can get new front and rear JK axles for $3500 with gears and lockers.. have to redo the mounts, and get new rims, but far better than what you have.
Not trying to steal this thread, just borrowing. Those $3500 jk's with lockers, are they 44's? I would like to eventually do a swap in my 2000 tj sahara and was wondering what all has to be done to do the swap. Could I get it done in a weekend? or am I gonna be calling around and custom fabricating anything. Maybe I'd be better off finding tj 44's and bolting them up. seems easier... But it may be difficult finding them around here in the junkyard. thanks
badmpr1 is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 05:07 PM   #8
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
4.56 is perfect for 33" tires on a daily driver TJ with a manual transmission, and $1200 to regear both axles is right where it should be. That $2300 quoted to ClemsonJeeper is nothing short of outrageous.
Yeah. I figured that. That's why I hate dealing with mechanics... I'm usually a DIYer but I definitely don't have the tools/knowledge to do this myself.

Anyone in the Northern VA area know of a reputable shop/mechanic to do this work that isn't going to rake me over the coals?
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 08:05 PM   #9
IITYWTMWYBMAB

WF Supporting Member
::WF Administrator::
 
4Jeepn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 10,572
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by badmpr1 View Post
Not trying to steal this thread, just borrowing. Those $3500 jk's with lockers, are they 44's? I would like to eventually do a swap in my 2000 tj sahara and was wondering what all has to be done to do the swap. Could I get it done in a weekend? or am I gonna be calling around and custom fabricating anything. Maybe I'd be better off finding tj 44's and bolting them up. seems easier... But it may be difficult finding them around here in the junkyard. thanks
They are rubicon 44's. Not sure how much modding you have to do to the mounts, also the wheel pattern is different. I would guess once all is done add another 1000-1500 to the price for brackets, air pumps install etc. still a good deal for two axles.
__________________
79.96.85.00.01.97.00.97.93.97.95.94
CJ.XJ.CJ. TJ. TJ.ZJ. TJ.TJ. ZJ.ZJ.YJ. XJ
4Jeepn is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 08:19 PM   #10
That WF guy.

WF Supporting Member
::WF Administrator::
 
distortedtj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: yep right there.
Posts: 21,451
Send a message via Yahoo to distortedtj
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Jeepn View Post
air pumps install
I thought the JK D44 axles had electric locker? A 12v positive/negitive deal. Just need some wire and a toggle switch.

At least ...according the the JK 44 install to a TJ in the April issue of Peterson's.
distortedtj is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 08:21 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
Mike001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you.....
Posts: 678
Air pumps for what? The JK 44's are elockers just need a 12-v source
__________________
"They are in front of us, behind us, and we are flanked on both sides by an enemy that outnumbers us 29:1. They can’t get away from us now!"
Mike001 is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 08:23 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,775
Just some additional insight...I just got a quote yesterday at 4x4 parts to regear my D44's with 4.88's. Parts and labor was $1245...I'll be getting a couple more quotes, but about what I expected it to be. Of course I didn't grenade my diff, and I don't know if he has some wiggle room in that quote...

I'd do it myself too, but I don't have a bearing press and I'm getting a bit old to do that kind of work laying on the ground anyway. Anyone know any good places to get a quote from in the San Diego area would be appreciated too.
stevens243 is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 09:06 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 588
i know that the economy varies from state to state but here is what i spent on axles this summer to complete my build and i had them professionally installed b/c of the money i had in them
d44/ford 9"
he set both axles up for 350 in labor
i had 350 in gears an istall kit for the nine inch
i had 250 in gears and install kit for the 44
100 in full spool for 9 inch
250 in lockright for the 44
650 in chromollys for the front
====1950 for gears lockers and chromolys........
i think your price is bad
he completely rebuilt both front and rearends........a good mechanic should take no longer than an hour to set up gears.....you could do em in 4 hours if you read the directions that come with em.......we get em done in about 2........if they are charging you a ton it means they dont know what they are doing and it takes them a long time.........find a machine shop that specializes in rearends i.e. a racing shop
flattietj is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 09:18 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
jtalar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: VEGAS
Posts: 415
Images: 4
How about some pics of that rig clemsonjeeper
__________________
jtalar is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 09:20 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
nicolas-eric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 5,892
Send a message via ICQ to nicolas-eric Send a message via AIM to nicolas-eric Send a message via MSN to nicolas-eric Send a message via Yahoo to nicolas-eric
4" lift and 3" BL with 33s sounds very high to me. whats about upgradig to 35" tires with some 4.88 gears?
nicolas-eric is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2008, 11:38 PM   #16
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolas-eric View Post
4" lift and 3" BL with 33s sounds very high to me. whats about upgradig to 35" tires with some 4.88 gears?
Yeah, it is. I didn't really do a lot of research before I got all the work done like 7 years ago... if I had to do it again I'd lose the body lift completely.

I might get them to take the body lift off when I get this diff work done. I remember they had to do some magic with the air conditioner when they put it on so not sure if it will be all that expensive.

I'm going to call a couple places around here to see the quotes on the differential work though.. I'll let you helpful people know how it goes.
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:21 AM   #17
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8,286
Send a message via AIM to Triple88a Send a message via MSN to Triple88a Send a message via Yahoo to Triple88a Send a message via Skype™ to Triple88a
jeez man lol i have 2" bl and 4" suspension lift and thats even too much for my 35s
Triple88a is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:13 PM   #18
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
OK so I checked out the damage... it looks like one of the splines on the spider gear sheared off and then proceeded to drop into the diff, which then caught in the ring/pinion and broke one of the splines off of the pinion gear as well. There was no visible damage to the diff case.

So I need to replace the spider gears along with the ring and pinion.

Now here is a question: How difficult is it to do the work yourself? Is there an "art" to it? I'm pretty mechanically inclined (do all the work on my sportbikes for racing/track days) and have a good set of tools.

It looks like I could purchase the parts for less than 600$ to do both the front AND rear (including the spider gears for the rear). Is it as simple as remove broken, install new in reverse order of removal? Or are there special tools/skills/etc that I do not possess that could cause me trouble if I tried to do it myself?

Pretty much everyone around here quoted me about 2000$ to do the job, and if I could save 1500$ and do it myself, that would be great. However I don't want to do it if a year down the road it blows up again due to installation error or some tolerance I didn't make.
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:20 PM   #19
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,166
Images: 2
$2000? HOLY SMOKES MAN!!! A new ring & pinion job typically only costs $1200 or so, and that includes all parts and labor for both the front and rear axles! I'd go to a 4x4 shop that does this kind of work all the time, not a general service garage.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:34 PM   #20
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
$2000? HOLY SMOKES MAN!!! A new ring & pinion job typically only costs $1200 or so, and that includes all parts and labor for both the front and rear axles! I'd go to a 4x4 shop that does this kind of work all the time, not a general service garage.
I did call two 4x4 shops in my area. They said anywhere from 800-1000$ per axle for ring/pinion swap.
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:46 PM   #21
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,166
Images: 2
Perhaps you or they misunderstood, it's normally around $600 per axle, parts and labor. Keep calling shops until you find one more connected with reality.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:49 PM   #22
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Perhaps you or they misunderstood, it's normally around $600 per axle, parts and labor. Keep calling shops until you find one more connected with reality.
Haha. Yeah I've noticed there is a definite difference between what people say things should cost and what things cost here. Could be that I live next to the richest county in the country (Fairfax, VA). Who knows.

Either way, can anyone happen to lend their knowledge on my above question? How difficult is it to install/set up the ring/pinion yourself?
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:58 PM   #23
Knows a couple things...

WF Supporting Member
 
Jerry Bransford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Escondido, Calif.
Posts: 35,166
Images: 2
While installing a R&P gearset is not impossible if you have the time and patience to learn as you go, it's not something I personally would do and I do just about all my own work everwhere else on my Jeep. There's a lot of trial and error to get the ring & pinion gears meshing properly, pinion depth set properly, backlash, etc. and if you don't get it all right, your new gears will be toast in short order. For never having done it and with the right guide to go by, I would plan on the entire weekend per axle to finally get it right. Plus you'd need a few special tools like a magnetic dial indicator to set the backlash.

I've had my TJ regeared twice since owning it and never once did I consider doing it on my own. And my garage is totally well equipped with pretty much every tool, air tools, MIG welder, etc... it's just not a job I'd want to do myself.
__________________
When you have a choice, buy American.

Jerry Bransford is online now   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 02:30 PM   #24
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
While installing a R&P gearset is not impossible if you have the time and patience to learn as you go, it's not something I personally would do and I do just about all my own work everwhere else on my Jeep. There's a lot of trial and error to get the ring & pinion gears meshing properly, pinion depth set properly, backlash, etc. and if you don't get it all right, your new gears will be toast in short order. For never having done it and with the right guide to go by, I would plan on the entire weekend per axle to finally get it right. Plus you'd need a few special tools like a magnetic dial indicator to set the backlash.

I've had my TJ regeared twice since owning it and never once did I consider doing it on my own. And my garage is totally well equipped with pretty much every tool, air tools, MIG welder, etc... it's just not a job I'd want to do myself.
Yeah, that seems to be the general consensus from people I've talked to. "I wouldn't want to do it myself". Haha. However, I didn't want to replace my heater core that went bad myself but I did it anyway (perhaps a glutton for punishment). Honestly though I just enjoy learning how to do things like this that I haven't done before.

I think I've decided I'm going to attempt it. Between myself and my roommate I think we have enough mechanical skill to do it. I just need to find some write ups on it.

A buddy of mine has the magnetic dial indicator so I can borrow that no problem. The differential spreader for the front is a different story though....
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 07:21 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,775
Here is a site I've been looking at as I've been considering doing an install myself. There is some additional details on the site too.

Free Automotive Differential Ring and Pinion Gear Installation Instructions

I'm leaning away from doing it myself...Several tools I don't have and don't want to purchase for a (hopefully) one time install. I'd just be doing the r/p, not axle or any other work, and I'm getting quoted $1200-$1350 to do the work, parts and labor for both ends.
stevens243 is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 10:02 PM   #26
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevens243 View Post
Here is a site I've been looking at as I've been considering doing an install myself. There is some additional details on the site too.

Free Automotive Differential Ring and Pinion Gear Installation Instructions

I'm leaning away from doing it myself...Several tools I don't have and don't want to purchase for a (hopefully) one time install. I'd just be doing the r/p, not axle or any other work, and I'm getting quoted $1200-$1350 to do the work, parts and labor for both ends.
Already read that page through like 3 times.

I would pay that to get the front and rear done, no problem. I just can't find anyplace that would DO the work that cheaply. I figure its going to cost me anywhere from 400-550$ for the parts alone (front dana 30 rebuild kit, front dana 30 R&P, rear dana 35 rebuild kit, rear dana 35 R&P, dana 35 spider gear kit).
ClemsonJeeper is offline   Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 11:48 PM   #27
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8,286
Send a message via AIM to Triple88a Send a message via MSN to Triple88a Send a message via Yahoo to Triple88a Send a message via Skype™ to Triple88a
from what i've searched the installation is very easy however the setting up and calibrating it is hard. If calibrated improperly, it could turn your entire new set into trash.

Triple88a is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
quick axle question Sb5551 TJ Tech Forum 3 10-03-2008 08:38 PM
Yet Another Lift Question - Advice needed brtt485 YJ General Discussion Forum 3 09-22-2008 07:54 PM
Trans Mount Question MOz TJ Tech Forum 8 06-10-2008 03:14 PM
new here, lighting question... Jonny15 TJ General Discussion Forum 5 05-10-2007 10:41 PM
Carb question and EGR question trulefty YJ Tech Forum 0 12-12-2006 04:55 PM



Download our Mobile App

» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 AM.


User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2015 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC