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Old 01-10-2014, 10:25 AM   #1
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hate my 6-speed

I have a 2005 TJ with the mercedes 6-speed tranny........... I have had it rebuilt once and it still jumps out of 1st gear once in a while if you don't hold it in while releasing the clutch! Anyone know if I can (without too much trouble) swap it out for a five speed?
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:08 AM   #2
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You happen to have a body lift on your Jeep?

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:13 PM   #3
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no modifications except p235-15 tires.......
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:29 PM   #4
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I always disliked the 6 speed


I think either 5 SPd is a fairly straight forward swap and since it was a manual the computer should be a non issue

Of the two I like the AX-15 better and a brand new one is probably less then a German 6 SPd rebuild
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:58 PM   #5
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I swapped in a nv1500 5pd into my 06 a couple of years ago. It's almost a straight swap... You need to find the tranmission out of an 03 or 04 2.4L. The correct clutch kit for the tranny. Which includes the pilot bushing... Your current pilot bushing is pressed into the flywheel. You need to press that out.... The new one must be pressed into the rear crankshaft behind the flywheel... Also. The input shaft of the 5speed is about an inch longer than the 6spd. So in order for the shaft to clear the flywheel the splines must be ground down. I ground about 2 inches off just to be safe. That way it will slide into the hole in the flywheel and make contact with the pilot bushing . Also you will need the 5spd slave cylinder as its throw is just a touch longer than the 6spd I hope that all makes sense. If you have any more questions I'll be glad to help
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:29 PM   #6
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You have the best tranny they put in a Wrangler. Something is def not right with yours, especially after a rebuild. What did the mechanic say is the cause or better yet, did you take it to a different transmission shop and ask them?
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:17 AM   #7
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If you mean best tj 4.0 manual with lowest torque rating and highest repair cost and only 4.0 manual to make jp mags hall of Shame for transmissions yep that is the one you have
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:40 AM   #8
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^x2
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:42 AM   #9
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^x2
Mine only lasted 50,000 miles.... The nv1500 I replaced it with had 70k when I put it in...and im over 100k on the jeep and still going strong
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:16 AM   #10
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I've got an AX-15 with 250K + on it with no issues and a NSG-370 with 115k with no problems.

The 6 spd has a lower first gear for off road and a synchronized reverse.

The 5 spd has a better overdrive for the hwy.

The '05s had an issue with reverse gear and shift forks, IIRC.

Also, I think some of them were shipped low on fluid. Why this wasn't checked before delivery, I don't know. I always check the fluids on any vehicle I buy soon after I get it, even a brand new one.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:51 PM   #11
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My 6 speed has 140k miles with no major issues.
It shifted a little rough when I got it but it improved noticeably after changing the fluid.

Good info here on the fluid :
Chrysler NSG370 transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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Old 01-11-2014, 11:13 PM   #12
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I love this. It's Diggers favorite subject. The 6 speed. I can't tell you how many times I've come across a tranny thread only to see him hammering the exact same crap. It's like he copy n pastes it. And my guess is he's never owed one. He uses a SINGLE article from a magazine, which, hell, must make it an absolute. Cause all those delivery trucks in Europe that used this same 6 speed tranny musta been wrong for all those years and Jeep put it in anyway knowing it would fail, just to make Digger King of the Tranny Threads, lol.

It's got a sweet low geared 1st, perfect for offroading....
The other gears are good, all around
I will admit, the 6th gear could have been a bit taller, but wait...my Rubi does 65 just perfect on the highway. Hold that, I've had the cruise set to 75!?!?!? And there was more....so what do you want for a lunchbox on wheels? It's not a sportscar. In fact, to get the best mpg, I keep her right around 62ish on the highway, which, oddly, is right around the speed limit and again oddly, most cars get their best mileage around 55mph.

But anyway, it's mechanical. All it takes is a bad shift to screw it up. 50k is def premature, were you the only owner? I had a Honda, great cars, right? Reliable! Bought it brand new for the wife and kids while I deployed around the world. We got a lemon of a Honda. This broke and that. All covered, but a constant problem of being in the dealers shop. Things happen sometimes.

My 6 speed? I love it. Coming up on 90k and will be changing all the driveline fluids out.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verf
I love this. It's Diggers favorite subject. The 6 speed. I can't tell you how many times I've come across a tranny thread only to see him hammering the exact same crap. It's like he copy n pastes it. And my guess is he's never owed one. He uses a SINGLE article from a magazine, which, hell, must make it an absolute. Cause all those delivery trucks in Europe that used this same 6 speed tranny musta been wrong for all those years and Jeep put it in anyway knowing it would fail, just to make Digger King of the Tranny Threads, lol.

It's got a sweet low geared 1st, perfect for offroading....
The other gears are good, all around
I will admit, the 6th gear could have been a bit taller, but wait...my Rubi does 65 just perfect on the highway. Hold that, I've had the cruise set to 75!?!?!? And there was more....so what do you want for a lunchbox on wheels? It's not a sportscar. In fact, to get the best mpg, I keep her right around 62ish on the highway, which, oddly, is right around the speed limit and again oddly, most cars get their best mileage around 55mph.

But anyway, it's mechanical. All it takes is a bad shift to screw it up. 50k is def premature, were you the only owner? I had a Honda, great cars, right? Reliable! Bought it brand new for the wife and kids while I deployed around the world. We got a lemon of a Honda. This broke and that. All covered, but a constant problem of being in the dealers shop. Things happen sometimes.

My 6 speed? I love it. Coming up on 90k and will be changing all the driveline fluids out.
Yup I'm the only owner. Bought it new with 22 miles on the clock.... And didn't abuse it at all. And it dropped the 4th gear syncros and with the 2.4L 6th gear was almost totally unusable
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by salemboy View Post
no modifications except p235-15 tires.......
so after a complete rebuild it still pops out of gear? i'm sure you brought back to the shop that did the rebuild right ?
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:46 AM   #15
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Small percent of my posts and an opinion I had before the mag article came out. Both facts that are easy to verify so what does that say about the accuracy of your postings?

Only quoted the mag because of whines for references.

POS is a POS no matter how you dress it up and excuses like the factory did not put adequate lube in it begs the question of how they managed to adequately lube the other trannys rolling down the line. I guess admiring that 6th gear must have distracted them. We'll just call it 6th gear envy something I apparently lack.

Just enjoy those high repair costs. I might consider that those recurrent high repeat costs might make it highly recommended by some repair shops but who knows.
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:10 PM   #16
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Yup I'm the only owner. Bought it new with 22 miles on the clock.... And didn't abuse it at all. And it dropped the 4th gear syncros and with the 2.4L 6th gear was almost totally unusable
5th in the 5 speed is even taller than 6th in the 6 speed. So that will be even less usable with the 4 cyl.

Wow, yours died behind a 4 cyl?
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by jkp

5th in the 5 speed is even taller than 6th in the 6 speed. So that will be even less usable with the 4 cyl.

Wow, yours died behind a 4 cyl?
It's geared perfect now.... 5th runs about 2800 on the highway with plenty more power left. Also I have 3.73s not 4.10s. Not sure if that makes a difference. And yes it died behind a 4cly... But the NV 1500 is a perfect match for my 4cyl
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Old 01-13-2014, 04:23 PM   #18
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1550 OD is .80 to 1.
370 OD is .84 to 1.

Not that much difference, but the 6 spd is less of an OD.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:35 AM   #19
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I love this. It's Diggers favorite subject. The 6 speed. I can't tell you how many times I've come across a tranny thread only to see him hammering the exact same crap. It's like he copy n pastes it. And my guess is he's never owed one. He uses a SINGLE article from a magazine, which, hell, must make it an absolute. Cause all those delivery trucks in Europe that used this same 6 speed tranny musta been wrong for all those years and Jeep put it in anyway knowing it would fail, just to make Digger King of the Tranny Threads, lol.

It's got a sweet low geared 1st, perfect for offroading....
The other gears are good, all around
I will admit, the 6th gear could have been a bit taller, but wait...my Rubi does 65 just perfect on the highway. Hold that, I've had the cruise set to 75!?!?!? And there was more....so what do you want for a lunchbox on wheels? It's not a sportscar. In fact, to get the best mpg, I keep her right around 62ish on the highway, which, oddly, is right around the speed limit and again oddly, most cars get their best mileage around 55mph.

But anyway, it's mechanical. All it takes is a bad shift to screw it up. 50k is def premature, were you the only owner? I had a Honda, great cars, right? Reliable! Bought it brand new for the wife and kids while I deployed around the world. We got a lemon of a Honda. This broke and that. All covered, but a constant problem of being in the dealers shop. Things happen sometimes.

My 6 speed? I love it. Coming up on 90k and will be changing all the driveline fluids out.
I would never have a 6 speed because it's just too many gears - gear clutter. The way they gear them it actually hurts gas mileage.

But under the heading of further anecdotal evidence the Mercedes tie would make me skeptical as well. I've had 20 some Mercedes over the years and followed Mercedes forums for years. They have not been able to make a decent manual transmission since about the 1970s. This is not to say their automatics are good because they've had trouble there too. I have no trouble accepting that a Mercedes sourced manual transmission would be a piece of crap. It's exactly what I would expect.

On the low first gear point - who needs a low first gear for offroading when 4WD low first gear is ridiculously low?
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:15 PM   #20
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I would never have a 6 speed because it's just too many gears - gear clutter. The way they gear them it actually hurts gas mileage.

But under the heading of further anecdotal evidence the Mercedes tie would make me skeptical as well. I've had 20 some Mercedes over the years and followed Mercedes forums for years. They have not been able to make a decent manual transmission since about the 1970s. This is not to say their automatics are good because they've had trouble there too. I have no trouble accepting that a Mercedes sourced manual transmission would be a piece of crap. It's exactly what I would expect.

On the low first gear point - who needs a low first gear for offroading when 4WD low first gear is ridiculously low?
Gear clutter, lol. That's cute. It's one more than the 5 speed. It's not a hi/lo 12 speed. 20 something Mercedes?!?! Is this Jay Leno? Or a used car dealer? I'd argue the Mercedes trannies by throwing the Dodge Challenger manual tranny, which has gotten raves reviews, but I'm not a Mercedes fanboy myself, so I don't know much about them.

How does the way they gear them hurt gas mileage exactly?
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:48 PM   #21
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I would never have a 6 speed because it's just too many gears - gear clutter. The way they gear them it actually hurts gas mileage. But under the heading of further anecdotal evidence the Mercedes tie would make me skeptical as well. I've had 20 some Mercedes over the years and followed Mercedes forums for years. They have not been able to make a decent manual transmission since about the 1970s. This is not to say their automatics are good because they've had trouble there too. I have no trouble accepting that a Mercedes sourced manual transmission would be a piece of crap. It's exactly what I would expect. On the low first gear point - who needs a low first gear for offroading when 4WD low first gear is ridiculously low?
Wrong. The more gears the tighter they can make the splits allowing you to keep you in the optimum RPM range. How do you think a 400+ hp corvette can manage 28+ mpg on the highway. Its not from running a TH350 i can guarantee that.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:27 AM   #22
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The much older vets came with 2 speed autos

More than 5 speeds in a car don't add much otherwise those variable speed autos with ' infinite speeds' would be beating the crappy puris

Close ratios been around a long time and it usually had little to do with mileage. My 69 428cj stang had a close ratio 4 SPd from the factory to show quicker acell and it was less desirable to drive than my buddies 69 boss 302 with the standard 4 SPd

Close ratios are neither particularly useful or enjoyable in a commuter car

Wish my miata had the 5 instead of the 6 speed
The NC miata 6 Speed has a less tall final gear than the 5 SPd and in 6th gear with factory setup your rpm is almost half your MPG which puts you at about 3500 at 70 mph

The closer gears may help the acell times but are just a waste on normal driving and putting 1st and reverse both in the same corner of the pattern is just a pilot error setup waiting for the careless to back into someone on a green light
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:23 AM   #23
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One thing I wonder is how the 6 speed "pulls" 2nd from a slow roll. My 5 speed isn't terrible by far, but requires a little more roll than my 6 speed Acura RSX-S i had before this.

I assume that the 6 speed is better in this sense if it's shorter gears/combo'd with final drive but what do you guys think with experience with it?
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:25 AM   #24
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http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-pdk-tech-dept
I'm just going to set this here. Gear clutter, I've never heard that before. The CVT transmission have also greatly improved gas mileage. Take a look at Subaru. They increased their economy almost 20% just by dropping their 4spd.
Let not forget the Chrysler 8 spd that's getting great reviews and credit for getting the trucks economy figures where they are.
Difference in manuals between 5 and 6 spds your right, there is not much increase to economy. But "sports" cars like your miata will benefit from it. Just do one HPDE and you will see.
Close ratio 6 spd are great if done right (STI, v160, supra Tt, s2000) I have a lj with the 6 spd. It is nice, but first is useless, unless I'm towing my boat and starting on a hill. And 6th doesn't fee like a OD. On a daily basis all I use is 2-6. I don't feel Chrysler took there time to modify this for the jeep and tailor the ratios to the jeeps needs.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:27 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by 03 TJX View Post
...
On the low first gear point - who needs a low first gear for offroading when 4WD low first gear is ridiculously low?
Really?

In my '05 LJ, six-speed, I often find that 1st gear low range is way too tall for some conditions. I find myself riding the brake to keep from bouncing over obstacles. Having previously wheeled a T18/D18 combo in a CJ5 for many years on Appalachian range trails I know the advantage of crawling.
The NSG 370 first gear is nice that it is lower than earlier TJ transmissions, but it is far from ridiculously low, and still too tall for many places where I wheel.

For example, when I run the LJ up or down this same wash in 1st gear low range I don't have near the speed control I had in the CJ, resulting in unnecessarily banging the skids, diffs etc.



BTW, on my NSG 370, 55K miles, no issues.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:48 AM   #26
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Wrong. The more gears the tighter they can make the splits allowing you to keep you in the optimum RPM range. How do you think a 400+ hp corvette can manage 28+ mpg on the highway. Its not from running a TH350 i can guarantee that.
You've not been watching the EPA ratings for the last 30 years. The perception that more gears equals better mileage is largely true for automatics but not true for sticks. Other things being equal - engine, final drive ratio, etc - more gears gets lower gas mileage. This was true in the transition from four speeds to five and from five speeds to six. The 05 Wrangler six speed is an example, one of many. Sticks are more efficient than automatics, but shifts are inefficient, and you can have too many for optimal efficiency.

The Corvette you mention is a great example. They had a forced upshift to improve the EPA rating and avoid a gas guzzler tax. Saab put out a bulletin years ago saying if you want better mileage skip gears. A good driver can drive a six speed efficiently but you have to skip gears, which to me is a pain. Of course the EPA plows through all of them and the mileage rating suffers.

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