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Old 09-07-2010, 09:04 AM   #31
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Wow, you've really taken my thread off on a tangent. I can't say that I appreciate it.

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Old 09-07-2010, 09:15 AM   #32
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i had a broken key board that wouldn't go to small type . i am a mechanic ! it looks like you payed someone to build your jeep. not me i do all my own work . everything ! you just go right ahead and put whatever oil you want in your trans , but when you have to spend 1800.00 on having it rebuilt you can only kick your self in the ass . remember when your driving and it starts to seize tell the person who told you to use 10/30 thanks
Wrong buddy nobody has touched my rig but me!

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Old 09-07-2010, 09:56 AM   #33
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IS CHRYSLER INSANE ? 10/30 ? I WOUND'T USE ANYTHING LESS THEN STRAIGHT 50 ! 10/30 MEANS IT WILL NEVER GET THINNER THAN 10 AND 30 MEANS IT WILL NEVER GET THICKER THAN 30 , SO WHY A MULITI WEIGHT OIL ? IF IT GETS TO 10 SURELY YOU HAVE ALMOST NO PROTECTION . USE 50W AS A MINIMUM . NEVER GO TO 10 . CHECK YOUR SLAVE AND BLEED IT. SHAME ON CHRYSLER
Since you claim to be a mechanic, I am amazed you don't realize that a 10 weight viscosity engine oil is equal to a 75 weight viscosity gear lube. Engine oil viscosities and gear lube viscosities are measured differently. I don't even make my living working on engies or vehicles but I knew this.

The 10W-30 engine oil that Chrysler now recommends is roughly equal in viscositiy to the 75W-90 gear lube previously recommended. The problem with the previous 75W-90 spec was that most 75W-90 gear lubes are GL-5, and most GL-5 gear lubes are bad news for the gear synchronizers inside the transmission. That is why the change was made, to better protect the transmission's gear synchronizers.

The change to the 10W-30 engine oil spec means you are still getting roughly the same viscosity as before with the previous 75W-90 gear lube but without the possibilty of getting the harsh GL-5 additives.

Here is a chart that compares the viscosities between engine oil and gear lube, click on it to make it big enough to read more easily.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:42 AM   #34
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Since you claim to be a mechanic, I am amazed you don't realize that a 10 weight viscosity engine oil is equal to a 75 weight viscosity gear lube. Engine oil viscosities and gear lube viscosities are measured differently. I don't even make my living working on engies or vehicles but I knew this.

The 10W-30 engine oil that Chrysler now recommends is roughly equal in viscositiy to the 75W-90 gear lube previously recommended. The problem with the previous 75W-90 spec was that most 75W-90 gear lubes are GL-5, and most GL-5 gear lubes are bad news for the gear synchronizers inside the transmission. That is why the change was made, to better protect the transmission's gear synchronizers.

The change to the 10W-30 engine oil spec means you are still getting roughly the same viscosity as before with the previous 75W-90 gear lube but without the possibilty of getting the harsh GL-5 additives.

Here is a chart that compares the viscosities between engine oil and gear lube, click on it to make it big enough to read more easily.
Thanks Jerry! I learned my factoid for the day!
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:18 PM   #35
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10/30 does not mean it will never get thinner than 10, or never thicker than 30.

The idea behind 10/30 or any multi-vis is when it's COLD, it acts like it's 10. When it's HOT, it acts like it's 30. The chemicals they put in it to do that are solvents, NOT lubricants.
You'll never find a professional racer using multi-viscosities. They need their engines to be able to win. They may run contingency advertising claiming to use it, but that's for the contingency advertising money.


No matter what kind of lube you use, the gears, bearings, splines, dogs, etc wear - when they wear small minute particles come off. They float around until they find a hiding place - usually in the grooves on the splines and in the synchro hubs. They get in the way of shifting, making it hard. Picture sliding the hub on a spline caked with mud and sand.

Flushing helps get that crap out - if you don't like kerosene you can use brake cleaner - dries faster.
Jack up the wheels - put the cleaner in, run it at idle, use the clutch when you shift it through the gears. DO NOT RUN IT FAST -- DO NOT DRIVE IT!
Drain it, if it comes out dirty, a second or or third flush is in order.

Or - tear it down and use a small brush and solvent to brush out all the particles.

Flushing will not get all of it - not like tearing it down, but it's MUCH cheaper and EASIER.

Now just watch - somebody's going to do it to an auto trans.

MANUAL TRANS ONLY!!!!!!!


Clutches can last 200k or more - if treated right. But some yo yo's can destroy them in a mile or two. Clutches and trannys was about 25% of our business.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:08 PM   #36
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you do what makes YOU happy

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Since you claim to be a mechanic, I am amazed you don't realize that a 10 weight viscosity engine oil is equal to a 75 weight viscosity gear lube. Engine oil viscosities and gear lube viscosities are measured differently. I don't even make my living working on engies or vehicles but I knew this.

The 10W-30 engine oil that Chrysler now recommends is roughly equal in viscositiy to the 75W-90 gear lube previously recommended. The problem with the previous 75W-90 spec was that most 75W-90 gear lubes are GL-5, and most GL-5 gear lubes are bad news for the gear synchronizers inside the transmission. That is why the change was made, to better protect the transmission's gear synchronizers.

The change to the 10W-30 engine oil spec means you are still getting roughly the same viscosity as before with the previous 75W-90 gear lube but without the possibilty of getting the harsh GL-5 additives.

Here is a chart that compares the viscosities between engine oil and gear lube, click on it to make it big enough to read more easily.
you do what makes you happy i'm not having a pissing contest with you. you can use 0 weight if that makesYOU happy !yes viscosity is the same but the lubrisious quality is not the same it is thinner and that means more metal to metal contact , as i said do what makes you happy . and when your gears are attached to your magnet , you have only yourself to blame. so if your so smart , why are you here asking how to fix this problem ? you seem to be the answer man ! i can rebuild a stick and its obvious you can't ! do what makes YOU HAPPY !
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:17 PM   #37
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Wow, just wow. First, I am not the one who was asking how to fix the problem. I simply pointed out your misunderstanding of gear lube vs. engine oil viscosities that you have now backtracked on.

Believe whatever you want to believe but understand that the use of 10W-30 motor oil was recommended for the NV3550 by NV who is only the transmission's manufacturer... but what do they know, right? 10W-30 engine oil is essentially the same viscosity as 75W-90 gear lube is... with similar lubrication properties but without the corrosive qualities a GL-5 gear 75W-90 gear lube has when talking about the gear synchronizers. Then again what do I know about the subject?

So go berzerk over what New Venture (the NV3550's manufacturer) is recommending if you want to, that's an issue I won't worry about.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:18 PM   #38
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good idea

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10/30 does not mean it will never get thinner than 10, or never thicker than 30.

The idea behind 10/30 or any multi-vis is when it's COLD, it acts like it's 10. When it's HOT, it acts like it's 30. The chemicals they put in it to do that are solvents, NOT lubricants.
You'll never find a professional racer using multi-viscosities. They need their engines to be able to win. They may run contingency advertising claiming to use it, but that's for the contingency advertising money.


No matter what kind of lube you use, the gears, bearings, splines, dogs, etc wear - when they wear small minute particles come off. They float around until they find a hiding place - usually in the grooves on the splines and in the synchro hubs. They get in the way of shifting, making it hard. Picture sliding the hub on a spline caked with mud and sand.

Flushing helps get that crap out - if you don't like kerosene you can use brake cleaner - dries faster.
Jack up the wheels - put the cleaner in, run it at idle, use the clutch when you shift it through the gears. DO NOT RUN IT FAST -- DO NOT DRIVE IT!
Drain it, if it comes out dirty, a second or or third flush is in order.

Or - tear it down and use a small brush and solvent to brush out all the particles.

Flushing will not get all of it - not like tearing it down, but it's MUCH cheaper and EASIER.

Now just watch - somebody's going to do it to an auto trans.

MANUAL TRANS ONLY!!!!!!!


Clutches can last 200k or more - if treated right. But some yo yo's can destroy them in a mile or two. Clutches and trannys was about 25% of our business.
hey i use the brake cleaner for gear lube now in my automatic thanks for the suggestion !ha ha! put a quart of 10/30 in your fridg , doe's it pour out as 10 or 30 ?
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:27 PM   #39
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Since you claim to be a mechanic, I am amazed you don't realize that a 10 weight viscosity engine oil is equal to a 75 weight viscosity gear lube. Engine oil viscosities and gear lube viscosities are measured differently. I don't even make my living working on engies or vehicles but I knew this.

The 10W-30 engine oil that Chrysler now recommends is roughly equal in viscositiy to the 75W-90 gear lube previously recommended. The problem with the previous 75W-90 spec was that most 75W-90 gear lubes are GL-5, and most GL-5 gear lubes are bad news for the gear synchronizers inside the transmission. That is why the change was made, to better protect the transmission's gear synchronizers.

The change to the 10W-30 engine oil spec means you are still getting roughly the same viscosity as before with the previous 75W-90 gear lube but without the possibilty of getting the harsh GL-5 additives.

Here is a chart that compares the viscosities between engine oil and gear lube, click on it to make it big enough to read more easily.
10w-30 , what doe's the w stand for ?
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:30 PM   #40
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I KNOW what the W stands for, I'd be surprised if you do after reading some of your previous statements. It stands for Winter, not weight.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:33 PM   #41
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very good jerry

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I KNOW what the W stands for, I'd be surprised if you do after reading some of your previous statements. It stands for Winter, not weight.
very good jerry kudos do you know how many people say weight ?
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:34 PM   #42
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what do you do for a living jerry ? do you have skype ?
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:40 PM   #43
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you said it was from the manufacturer , then why did they use it in the first place ? why the big change after the the trans has problems , now i'm curious , educate me . it means it will pump at 10 at a 30 viscosity
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:40 PM   #44
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Let's just say I have spent my entire career in the technical side of things though mostly in electronics. However, I spent a number of years making my living specifying to techs/shops how to build/customize/lift/modify Jeeps for a slew of new Jeep dealerships, as well as helping solve various suspension-related tech problems for Jeeps and Ford/GM/Dodge trucks. No, I do not have skype.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:47 PM   #45
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you said it was from the manufacturer , then why did they use it in the first place ? why the big change after the the trans has problems , now i'm curious , educate me . it means it will pump at 10 at a 30 viscosity
NV switched to the 10W-30 engine oil spec to solve synchro issues caused by GL-5 gear lubes being harsh on the synchronizers and to make finding a suitable lube easier. Since most 75W-90 gear lubes are GL-5, and it is the GL-5 spec that makes most gear lubes too harsh to use for synchronizers, they switched to 10W-30 which does not have the harsh additives that turn a GL-3 or GL-4 gear lube into a GL-5 gear lube.

And if you were to pour a 10W-30 engine oil at the same temps as you poured a 75W-90, you'd see that they are essentially the same weights of oil. Hence the two different viscosity scales for engine oil vs. gear lube.

The 10W and 75W just means they flow more easily for better lubrication when cold which is a good thing until things warm up. 10W-30 becomes a 30 engine oil viscosity when warm and 75W-90 becomes a 90 gear lube viscosity when warm.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:17 PM   #46
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so.... olive oil is a no go ? :-)
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:27 PM   #47
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so.... olive oil is a no go ? :-)
Hah you're right. If it's not extra-virgin olive oil, it's not the right stuff.

By the way, I believe Jeep even switched the lubricant spec for the AX-15 and AX-5 to 10W-30 from the previous GL-3 75W-90.

Before that, Jeep had mistakenly printed early shop manuals so they specified a GL-5 75W-90 which was of course an error. They very quietly switched subsequent shop manuals from GL-5 to a GL-3 spec for the 75W-90 without admitting the earlier erroneous GL-5 spec could have harmed anything.

They were somewhat right as a GL-5 does not cause immediate damage to yellow-metal gear synchronizers, most GL-5 gear lubes simply accelerates their wear so the synchros just go bad more quickly.
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:00 PM   #48
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Olive oil needs a touch of garlic to prevent corrosion and scare away the evil spirits.

I'm sure the guys that designed the transmissions know more than an armchair racer.

Obviously when they discovered the GL-5 was eventually detrimental to the brass and copper, they started recommending something better.
And obviously it wasn't an emergency to switch over, else it could become a recall. They just quietly updated their manuals.

What really gets me is often an oil or something "meets specs" when it's new, but they don't always remain "in spec" over time.

New wives meet "specs" at first, but over time they sometimes change or degrade - that explains the high divorce rate.
Hmmm, I wonder, Do you think maybe rubbing them down every night with olive oil and garlic would help?
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:20 PM   #49
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LOL... ok, when I had a Discovery II, some guys , if I remember well, were using seafoam to flush the AUTO transmission. it was something like : remove the old fluid, buy cheap trans fluid and 1 big can of seafoam, start the truck DO NOT DRIVE THE TRUCK and keep moving the gear selector to D, R 1 2 3 etc.. then flush the fluid, and refill with the good stuff.

I do not know if it was good or not and if I missed some step here, but just to give an idea ;-)
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:21 PM   #50
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New wives meet "specs" at first, but over time they sometimes change or degrade - that explains the high divorce rate.
Hmmm, I wonder, Do you think maybe rubbing them down every night with olive oil and garlic would help?

so true
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Old 09-08-2010, 11:43 PM   #51
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I just run the garden hose under the jeep and flush the transmission with water, should I not do that?


I thought that is what 10 W 30 stood for 10 or WATER or 30


Jerry that Redline product you mentioned in the other thread will that be okay in the NV3550, or just use a good 10W30? This thread has gone way around the bend and I have lost track.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:22 AM   #52
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water...tsk tsk tsk.... only whisky !!!
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:46 PM   #53
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Jerry that Redline product you mentioned in the other thread will that be okay in the NV3550, or just use a good 10W30? This thread has gone way around the bend and I have lost track.
Redline says the MTL or MT90 will be fine in the NV3550. I'm sure the 10/30 motor oil would be fine as well.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:07 PM   #54
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10w-30 , what doe's the w stand for ?
It's actually spelled DOES, not DOE'S.....food for thought
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:12 PM   #55
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hey i use the brake cleaner for gear lube now in my automatic thanks for the suggestion !ha ha! put a quart of 10/30 in your fridg , doe's it pour out as 10 or 30 ?
This is a tough one Hookuspookus, but it's FRIDGE, not FRIDG...and once again, it's DOES, not DOE'S. You are a very educated mechanic bud. I bet you have lot's of happy customers.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:20 PM   #56
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LOL... ok, when I had a Discovery II, some guys , if I remember well, were using seafoam to flush the AUTO transmission. it was something like : remove the old fluid, buy cheap trans fluid and 1 big can of seafoam, start the truck DO NOT DRIVE THE TRUCK and keep moving the gear selector to D, R 1 2 3 etc.. then flush the fluid, and refill with the good stuff.
For some reason I can't figure out, a very vocal few have decided that Seafoam is the modern day version of Holy Water that can cure anything and everything.

I wouldn't put Seafoam in my transmission, ESPECIALLY an automatic transmission, no matter what a few say. It's ok for some things but it's not the universal cure-all like some want to think it is. It sure doesn't have a place in an automatic transmission that is already fussy enough about what ATF it runs on.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:07 PM   #57
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I'm glad we all get along and agree on everything.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:06 PM   #58
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.... Holy Water .

HMM I may just try that
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Old 10-01-2011, 02:52 PM   #59
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While entertaining to read this thread, I thought I should tell you what the deal told me. I have a 1999 with 130k miles on it. The second gear synchro is not happy when shifting until the car warms up. If I allow the rpms to drop before going into second, I do not have any problems.

I was told by a Jeep mechanic to use 75-90 Synthetic and then add a friction modifier. He told me that Jeep had changed the spec from 10W-30 to the 75-90.

The shifting issue has improved, but has not gone away. I did not expect that it would just go away as I believe the synchro is going and the only permenant fix would be a re-build.

So, did I use the wrong fluid?
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:12 PM   #60
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No, Jeep did not change the spec from 10W-30 to 75W-90, it has been 75W-90 (GL-3 or GL-4) since day one.

Aisin, the manufacture of your AX-15 (AX-5 too), only added synthetic 10W-30 a couple years ago as another acceptable lubricant. 10W-30 engine oil and 75W-90 gear lube are very similar in actual viscosities since engine oils and gear lube are measured on two different viscosity scales. Aisin added synthetic 10W-30 as an acceptable lube after testing it because it's not easy to find acceptable 75W-90 gear lubes that are rated GL-4 (or GL-3) as is required. Some GL-5 75W-90 gear lubes are ok, as described below, but most are not.

A friction modifier additive is not something that should be recommended for the transmission, that so-called Jeep "mechanic" only repeated incorrect information he heard from somebody else who was equally clueless. A friction modifier additive is only meant to be added to the gear lube when there is a Tracloc limited slip differential present. That is because the Traclock has a friction clutch pack inside which requires the additive.

Note that addiing a friction modifier is in no way harmful to the transmission but it serves absolutely no purpose in a manual transmission so there is no need to pay extra for it.

Some synthetic GL-5 75W-90 gear lubes should not be used in the AX-15 (or AX-5) because they are harsh on the synchronizers. The only (!) GL-5 75W-90 gear lube that is safe for use inside the tranmission is one that specifically says (on the back label) it is safe for soft or yellow metals which means it is safe for the synchronizers.

What are safe gear lubes for the AX-5 and AX-15? Redline MT-90 (a synthetic GL-4 75W-90), Amsoil 75W-90 which is a GL-5 that is safe for the synchronizers, and Royal Purple's Max-Gear 75W-90 (also a "safe" GL-5) is also safe for the syncronizers. There are other GL-5 gear lubes that are safe (most are synthetics) but caution most GL-5 75W-90 gear lubes are not safe for a manual transmission.

Using the wrong kind of GL-5 75W-90 will not cause immediate harm to the synchronizers, the harm is something that happens over the long term.

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