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Old 09-12-2010, 09:05 PM   #1
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Injector Swap

Has anyone ever swapped out the TJ injectors with the dodge stratus / Neon injectors. Does anyone know if you can do this on a 2003 6cyl 4.0?

Buddy of mine did this on his Cherokee, wondering if it can be done on a Wrangler.

Thanks for the help in advance.

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Old 09-12-2010, 09:49 PM   #2
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the motor is the same i believe but ive never heard of doinig it.

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Old 09-12-2010, 11:06 PM   #3
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The real question is WHY?

It's not going to provide more fuel - or more power - sure they are capable of a higher flow, but the computer just shortens the injector open time to get the right amount of fuel to maintain the proper A/F ratio.
The only time it may make a difference is at WOT if it's already running lean there.

But if you really want to play with the injectors, you might see a small benefit with "flow matched" injectors. Even then, the slight possible gain, if any, isn't worth the cost.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:20 PM   #4
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The why is because I hear and have seen that it improves MPH and delivers more Horse Power..now keep in mind that the reason for my question was to see if anyone has done this on a new wrangler. My info is coming from doing this swap in a Cherkoee, just seeing if it makes sense to do this in a newer Wrangler.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:14 PM   #5
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Then TRY IT - but after you find it's pure smoke be honest enough to post it here.

Maybe you'd like to explain HOW it can make better mileage and more HP when they will deliver exactly the same amount of fuel the originals do? The only difference would be open for a slightly shorter time.
I've heard Mustang injectors will work too - bigger, something to brag about, but no noticeable difference either.

What is the flow rate for the OEM?

What is the flow rate for the others?

You could get more fuel by increasing the fuel pressure too. But there again, the ECM would just shorten the open time, resulting in the same air to fuel ratio. The ECM's job is to maintain the correct A/F ratio at all speeds. You could reprogram the ECM to lower the A/F ratio a little.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:22 PM   #6
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I switched to 'Stang 5.0's and have noticed a gain in HP, quicker starts and better acceleration response. I do not know about MPG, 'cos I do not calculate that.
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:01 PM   #7
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Replaced my injectors pintles and o-rings and cleaned them. Parts from Mr. Injector. At a very little cost a fun project and a more responsive engine.
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:34 PM   #8
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Again, the info is about upgrading a Cherokee and I was wondering if a Wrangler could follow the same suit. Here is where the info was coming from

Ford injectors info:

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/...r_Upgrades.htm

Complete injector info thread:

Injector upgrade thoughts. - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM

Cherokee Forum:

Jeep Cherokee Forum

More budget injector upgrade questions - Jeep Cherokee Forum
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:09 PM   #9
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As RRich already clearly explained above, installing different fuel injectors with the potential to flow more fuel will not help in the least. They will NOT flow more fuel, even if they are capable of doing so. Period.

Why and how? Because the computer constantly checks for the proper air/fuel ratio via the downstream 02 sensor and if it detects more fuel, i.e. a richer fuel mixture, it will shorten the duration of how long the injector sprays its fuel... it's pulse width... until the fuel ratio is back where the computer wants it.

So if the fuel injector can spray more fuel, the computer won't let it and it will prevent it from doing so by shortening the length of time the injector is spraying until the computer is once again happy with the air/fuel ratio.

Installing higher flowing fuel injectors trying to produce more power etc. is a 100% waste of $$$ as the computer will flat out not let it happen. And for those that claim that it worked in their Jeep, well that is just a very good indication of the Placebo Effect hard at work.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:23 PM   #10
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Jerry, I bow to your expertise sir, I do not know anything about the HP or MPG gains, I do not have calibrated equipment to verify them, but to me, in my honest opinion, it seems to start up faster, crisper and the acceleration seems snappier and quicker. Now this may be the placebo effect you speak of, but if it is, please let me be, and allow my dream to continue. Thanks!
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:08 PM   #11
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Jerry, always respect your responses and as my very post states, I was looking to see if this would work in a new model TJ, which based on your comments it obviously will not. Thanks for your input.

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Old 09-14-2010, 10:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrmTJ
Jerry, I bow to your expertise sir, I do not know anything about the HP or MPG gains, I do not have calibrated equipment to verify them, but to me, in my honest opinion, it seems to start up faster, crisper and the acceleration seems snappier and quicker. Now this may be the placebo effect you speak of, but if it is, please let me be, and allow my dream to continue. Thanks!
Ain't ignorance bliss...... I love to think that my K&N filter does what it says on the box, but we all know it is BS.
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:02 AM   #13
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Let me be more specific.

There may be some validity to swapping them.
1 IF the injectors you have are not working right.
2 IF the injectors you have have different flow rates - they can vary a little.
3 IF the spray patterns are not right.

1 Obviously a defective injector getting replaced will make a difference.

2 Matching the injectors by flow rates - keep them within 5% - can make a difference. The ECM gets an "average" reading of the fuel mixture. The O2 sensor(s) average the Oxygen in the exhaust. Lets say one injector was flowing 10% more fuel than the rest, and another was 10% less than the rest, then neither cylinder is at it's best performance - one too lean, the other too rich, but the "average" is correct. That would decrease power and efficiency a little.

3 The spray patterns can vary slightly. A defective injector - or a dirty one - can spray more like a solid stream - not unlike a garden hose. A solid stream will not burn quite as well - yes it will burn some because where that stream goes is extremely hot and it will try to vaporize.
Ideally the spray pattern distributes the fuel in colloidal particles. Tiny droplets burn better than vapor or a solid mass. Picture your BBQ - if the charcoal was a solid log it would take too long to burn, if it was in the form of dust particles it would virtually explode. You want a controlled burn in the combustion chamber.

All this can add up - so it is possible that you may feel a slight difference.

When I got involved years ago with matching injectors - I paid about $4000 for the equipment - it was fun to use, but not very profitable. My results obtained on my dyno showed very little difference with the small engines like Jeep uses.
Where it became important was the super high performance race engines - engines with 700 HP or more. Every tiny thing counts when racing. A simple thing like that can make the difference between winning and way "out of the money." I sold my equipment, I preferred to just buy them from a specialist.


Find a reputable speed shop or high performance shop that has experience with matching injectors. They may have pre-prepared sets available. They will probably advise you to forget it. The cost vs. performance is way out of line.

But -- ? Try it.

Or better yet -- Save that money for building a stroker - there is no substitute for more cubic inches!
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:13 AM   #14
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heres a theory for ya..
if you make a change, and it only makes a difference of 2-3 HP thats not to much
but if you make 10 of these changes then thats 20-30hp.. now were talking

and at 2-300 bucks for each small change, that doesn't seem hardly worth it, However it seems that a lot of people just like to though money at their jeeps, so really the 2-300 buck per change doesn't really matter
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureman View Post
heres a theory for ya..
if you make a change, and it only makes a difference of 2-3 HP thats not to much
but if you make 10 of these changes then thats 20-30hp.. now were talking
That assumes each change actually gives 2-3 HP gain which isn't usually the case. Things like throttle body spacers, K&N air filters, etc. give 0 HP gains.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:37 AM   #16
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then i guess that where you have to do your reaserch try not to buy the 'snake oil'
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:30 PM   #17
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The oem injectors for jeep have one big port where the fuel "dumps" into the combustion chamber. The pony injectors have four smaller ports and allows better atomization of the fuel (just a help for those that may not know, the vapors are what ignite, not the liquid itself). More flow through them, no, but sure makes a hell of a difference

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