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Old 07-21-2014, 05:14 PM   #1
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Jeep seals leaking.... DIY job?

Hi, just wanted anyone's opinions on leaking seals.
Jeep Wrangler 2002, I have some slight leaking in both front and rear pinion seals, and rear axle seals.

What is a reasonable price to have these replaced? I know the seals themselves are not that expensive, but my understanding is you really need shop equipment to get the job done.

I called Firestone and they told me $877 total, parts and labor before tax.
That was $299 for both rear axle seals, $174 for rear pinion, $192 for front pinion and then $70 for differential.
Sounds high to me :/ but I can't seem to find any posts really with what people were charging. Anyone do it themselves and did it work? thanks for opinions.

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Old 07-21-2014, 05:24 PM   #2
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Ouch, front and rear pinion cost me $28 each and about 2 hours time, it was a fairly easy replacement job. Have not done axel seals yet so cannot speak to that.

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:37 PM   #3
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Damn. I said I wanted seals, not "STEALS". He must have misheard me.
Not making Firestone look very good.
Did you have any special equipment or tools on hand?

I just found this:

Axle seals, do it myself or take to professional?

I finally found someone on another site who claimed they got both rear axle seals done at the shop for $120, thought that was reasonable with labor. Anyone object?
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:48 PM   #4
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Rear pinion seal is easy and cheap to replace. Basic tools and a torque wrench. Front pinion seal will need a new crush sleeve but same simple installation.

The rear axle seals depends on what rear axle you have. If its a Dana 44 your old bearing retainers will need to be cut off and new bearings, seals, and retainers will need to be pressed on with a bearing press. Only certain shops will have one, I would go to an axle repair shop.

If its a Dana 35 I believe the seals are just pushed on by hand and they should be fairly easy to replace once you get the shafts out.

Parts total should be probably $150-250 depending on your rear axle. Labor probably $300-500 again depending on rear axle.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jeffpas View Post
I finally found someone on another site who claimed they got both rear axle seals done at the shop for $120, thought that was reasonable with labor.
What rear axle do you have?
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:01 PM   #6
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:15 PM   #7
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A seal puller is an inexpensive tool that although not necessary makes the job easy, looks like a thin claw hammer without the hammer head. Beyond that basic hand tools
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:11 PM   #8
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@tangofox007, I'm not sure how to tell what kind of rear axle I have. Its a Jeep Wrangler Sahara 6cyl 4WD, 2002. Does it vary by year? Can't find anything online so far.

I've got an offer to do the front and rear pinions, and both rear axles for $350 parts and labor altogether.
Sounds like if I have a Dana 35 I should try to do the seals myself, if Dana 44 better have a shop do the job.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:18 PM   #9
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This should help you:

TJ/LJ axle Identification!!!
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:04 AM   #10
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and, here it is:
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:05 AM   #11
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looks like a D44 to me. Luck of the draw :/ It appears I had better hire out....
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:41 AM   #12
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you could do all the work yourself and just take the shafts to the shop and have them press the new bearings on, then bring it home and reinstall them.. that's what I did last summer.
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Old 07-23-2014, 01:30 AM   #13
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There is no need to replace bearings or the front crush sleeve to replace the front or rear pinion seal. Though admittedly I am practiced, I can replace either pinion seal in 30-45 minutes with no special tools other than a simple torque wrench. I don't even own an actual seal puller.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
There is no need to replace bearings or the front crush sleeve to replace the front or rear pinion seal. Though admittedly I am practiced, I can replace either pinion seal in 30-45 minutes with no special tools other than a simple torque wrench. I don't even own an actual seal puller.
You "can" yes. Is this the correct way, no...

On the front with crush sleeve...
There is NO POSSIBLE way to determine, with the accuracy needed (within 5IN/Lbs), the pinion preload without removing the shafts and carrier, and using the correct in/lb torque wrench on just the pinion nut. You need between 6-8in/lbs. AND the crush sleeve could be right or wrong as to if it has distance left in it to get a preload that is not way to tight when it does seat in and with some resistance.

So in short, rear D44 is easy to change pinion seal with no internals having to come out to do it right. Front, well only "Right" way is to disassemble and have another crush sleeve on hand, so set preload correctly when reassembling.

I do agree though, a seal puller is not needed. and I find it actually more work and aggravation then without.
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:42 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by RWKHaus View Post

On the front with crush sleeve...
There is NO POSSIBLE way to determine, with the accuracy needed (within 5IN/Lbs), the pinion preload without removing the shafts and carrier, and using the correct in/lb torque wrench on just the pinion nut. You need between 6-8in/lbs.
The FSM seems to suggest a somewhat different notion. Is it your opinion that the FSM procedure (to include preload torque) for replacing a pinion seal is in error and not acceptable?
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
The FSM seems to suggest a somewhat different notion. Is it your opinion that the FSM procedure (to include preload torque) for replacing a pinion seal is in error and not acceptable?
There is no way a FSM is telling you to Leave the carrier and shafts in the housing while you set pinion bearing preload on a Crush sleeve LOW Pinion D30! No poss way. I have never read one, but I am positive that its not that far lost on how Spicer builds that axle and procedures to R&R it.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:35 PM   #17
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I have an '04 rubicon with a Dana 44 front & rear. My pinions use shims to set the turning force, not crush sleeves. If all Dana 44s use shims you don't have to worry about resetting the turning force. The only difficulty I think you will have is properly pulling off the flange. If you hammer it off you may bend the flange. I use my steering wheel puller. Other than that a screwdriver & hammer can get the seal out. Then a block of wood across the seal and tap it in straight with a hammer.
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:08 PM   #18
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There is no way a FSM is telling you to Leave the carrier and shafts in the housing while you set pinion bearing preload on a Crush sleeve LOW Pinion D30! No poss way. I have never read one, but I am positive that its not that far lost on how Spicer builds that axle and procedures to R&R it.
Kindly take a look and report back. Maybe my interpretation isn't correct. It seems to me that "replacing a seal" and "building an axle" are somewhat different concepts.
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:16 PM   #19
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In a crush sleeve style it is best to pull out the pinion and replace the crush sleeve. That means you reset the turning force to ensure proper bearing preload. In the real world a 1st time seal replacement only requires that you mark the pinion, flange & nut so you tighten it slightly more after seal replacement without having bearing probs.
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:26 PM   #20
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In a crush sleeve style it is best to pull out the pinion and replace the crush sleeve.
So...you recommend removing the pinion in order to replace the crush sleeve?

Have you looked at the FSM? Remember, the objective here is to replace a leaking pinion seal, not to overhaul an axle.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:37 PM   #21
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Here's the FSM...

PINION SHAFT SEAL
REMOVAL
(1) Raise and support the vehicle.
(2) Remove wheel and tire assemblies.
(3) Remove brake rotors and calipers. Refer to
Group 5, Brakes, for proper procedures.
(4) Mark the propeller shaft and pinion yoke for
installation reference.
(5) Remove the propeller shaft from the yoke.
(6) Rotate the pinion gear three or four times.
(7) Measure the amount of torque necessary to
rotate the pinion gear with a (in. lbs.) dial-type
torque wrench. Record the torque reading for installation
reference.
(8) Using Holder 6958 to hold the pinion yoke,
remove the pinion nut and washer.
(9) Use Remover C-452 and Wrench C-3281 to
remove the pinion yoke (Fig. 6).
(10) Use a suitable pry tool or a slide hammer
mounted screw to remove the pinion seal.
INSTALLATION
(1) Apply a light coating of gear lubricant on the
lip of pinion seal. Install seal with Installer C-3972-A
and Handle C-4171 (Fig. 7).
(2) Install yoke on the pinion gear with Installer
W-162D, Cup 8109, and Holder 6958 (Fig. 8).
CAUTION: Do not exceed the minimum tightening
torque when installing the pinion yoke retaining nut
at this point. Damage to collapsible spacer or bearings
may result.

pinion gear.
Tighten the nut only enough to

remove the shaft end play.
(4) Rotate the pinion shaft using a (in. lbs.) torque
wrench. Rotating torque should be equal to the reading
recorded during removal, plus an additional 0.56
Nm (5 in. lbs.) (Fig. 9).
(5) If the rotating torque is low, use Holder 6958 to
hold the pinion yoke (Fig. 10), and tighten the pinion
shaft nut in 6.8 Nm (5 ft. lbs.) increments until
proper rotating torque is achieved.
CAUTION: If the maximum tightening torque is
reached prior to reaching the required rotating
torque, the collapsible spacer may have been damaged.
Replace the collapsible spacer.
(6) Align the installation reference marks on the
propeller shaft and yoke and install the propeller
shaft.
(7) Check and fill the gear lubricant. Refer to the
Lubricant Specifications for gear lubricant requirements.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:46 PM   #22
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Remind me to read up on how and to perform to do an engine overhaul before replacing the oil filter or spark plugs.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:01 PM   #23
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Lol! I was doing that for the sake of the troll...
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:58 PM   #24
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Lol! I was doing that for the sake of the troll...
Yeah call me a troll due to doing things correctly...

SO spec calls for 6-8in/lbs.

If you have a good assembly (maybe just leaking).
You follow your instructions, no matter where you got them from.
Your Pinion preload is at 6-8in/lbs to start.
You add 5in/lbs as your FSM or what ever you are referencing states to do, as its not Dana/spicer, they state to set preload without the carrier.

You are now at 13in/lbs (and only if your perfect and thats very difficult to set within a inch or two, so likely even more). Yep thats the right way to do it.

Its only over by 5in/Lbs+, 70-90% over what is recommended. Can you do it this way. Sure. Will it work, it "should', but will this assure that your still in the correct recommended range of specifications for your pinion preload, Nope... can this cause premature bearing failure, Yep.

Just like changing your oil. You can suck it out. But is this the right way to do it, nope. Or lets do brakes, but just pads. No need to turn the rotors right?

SO now troll = someone who wants to recommend the correct way to do something. Not some halfa$$ed way.. Got it.
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:35 PM   #25
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FYI that wasn't directed at you.

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