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Old 11-07-2010, 06:04 PM   #1
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K&N Filter replacement or upgrade???

Okay so i was looking under the hood the other day and i noticed my open air filter had black spots all over and and had mud on it =\

so instead of paying $20 for cleaner id rather either replace the filter or upgrade it!
I attached a pic of my air filter so if anyone could tell me the model number? i cant find it.

or if anyone has any suggestions of an better filter! i don't wana replace the whole intake just the filter!

Thanks guys!
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:05 PM   #2
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GO back to OEM.

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Old 11-07-2010, 06:07 PM   #3
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GO back to OEM.
wish i could but its not an option =\ its all the way back in cali
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:09 PM   #4
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everyone seems to believe the oem one is the best. k&n are generally the worst on any car.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 6inarowmakesitgo View Post
everyone seems to believe the oem one is the best. k&n are generally the worst on any car.
WELLLLL i really dont wana start this whole debate about K&N filters again cuz thats what happened last time! =P


all i wana know is what is an upgraded filter to the one i am running now or where i can get a replacement one for what im already running cuz i cant find which model number mine is
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:13 PM   #6
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Trust me on this... as cool as K&N's advertisements make their air filters sound, they are actually not a good air filter at all. I used to run one and I was amazed how much dirt and crap it was allowing past it. The inside of my air intake tube and throttle body both became grimy and gritty feeling within a few months of installing mine, I was frigging shocked and angry.

It took placing not one, but TWO prefilters over the top of it before the air intake and throttle body started staying fairly clean. The below photo shows what was on my old '97 TJ that was stolen in March. The '04 Rubicon I bought as a replacement came with an air intake that was very similar to yours. I sold it (it was an Airaid) then reinstalled a stock air intake box and AC-Delco paper element air filter and I couldn't be happier. Engine performs exactly the same too since unlike some other air intake systems, the TJ's air intake is well known to be totally non-restrictive.

Here's my old K&N that now does nothing but occupy space on a shelf in my garage. I have partially pulled back the pre-filters (an Outerwears and a foam Unifilter) so you can see them.

By the way, I have a ton of ISO test data that places the K&N at the bottom of all air filters tested so far as its ability to actually filter the frigging air. Pretty sad for a company that advertises their air filters as much as K&N does.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Trust me on this... as cool as K&N's advertisements make their air filters sound, they are actually not a good air filter at all. I used to run one and I was amazed how much dirt and crap it was allowing past it. The inside of my air intake tube and throttle body both became grimy and gritty feeling within a few months of installing mine, I was frigging shocked and angry.

It took placing not one, but TWO prefilters over the top of it before the air intake and throttle body started staying fairly clean. The below photo shows what was on my old '97 TJ that was stolen in March. The '04 Rubicon I bought as a replacement came with an air intake that was very similar to yours. I sold it (it was an Airaid) then reinstalled a stock air intake box and AC-Delco paper element air filter and I couldn't be happier. Engine performs exactly the same too since unlike some other air intake systems, the TJ's air intake is well known to be totally non-restrictive.

Here's my old K&N that now does nothing but occupy space on a shelf in my garage. I have partially pulled back the pre-filters (an Outerwears and a foam Unifilter) so you can see them.

By the way, I have a ton of ISO test data that places the K&N at the bottom of all air filters tested so far as its ability to actually filter the frigging air. Pretty sad for a company that advertises their air filters as much as K&N does.
so pretty much i should get a different type of filter? would it still fit on the tube i have right now? because i dont want to replace the whole thing just the filter
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:17 PM   #8
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you're going to want to read this:
FAQ - Cold Air Intake - JeepForum.com

the best setup can be sourced from a Ford Windstar w/ 3.8L v6, in the junkyard.

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Old 11-07-2010, 06:20 PM   #9
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you're going to want to read this:
FAQ - Cold Air Intake - JeepForum.com
ahhhhhhh

okay peopleeee we already had this debate!!! http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/k-an...ake-59152.html


I know K&N's are the best i know they let it a ton of dirt but i got the whole intake system for FREEEEEEEEE i didnt do it cuz i thought id gain 7 Hp! cuz i know it wont do that and even if it did theres really no difference.


nooowwwwww can anyone actually answer my question?
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:36 PM   #10
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hahah okay now people dont respond =(


lameee
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:48 PM   #11
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everyone is answering your question. you just dont like the answer.

jeep intake
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:48 PM   #12
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since no one will actually answer your question i will lol all you need is a cone filter, go to advance auto/autozone something of that nature, look through the air filters to find one that fits, doesnt have to be the same model number or anything, just as long as it fits, there are more brands than k&n if your worried about that ((i had a k&n box filter on my 03 cavalier and loved it never had a problem with dirt getting past and had it on there for 2 years before getting my jeep but anyways)) so find another brand that is a cone filter that fits on it..
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:50 PM   #13
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hmm well i guess if u want to keep the same set up but go to something better then the filter u have.... i doubt they make it but u would want to go back to a paper filter instead of one that is basically cheese cloth. I wont lie... I have a stock air box with a K&N Filter. The filter is fine for street driving IMO but man is my throttle body DIRTY after i ride a trail.

So if a paper conical filter that is the same size doesn't exist and u don't want some prefilters if ur not gonna change the whole setup
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:50 PM   #14
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You could take the K&N down to an auto parts store and just start opening air filter boxes and comparing them. Most likely you'll find a similar sized/design paper filter that you could clamp onto your intake tube. I've spent a good 20 minutes or more in the past just opening and looking at filters. They didn't seem to mind.

If you're set on a replacement K&N filter it will cost more than the cleaner kit. A similar style paper element as the K&N filter will also cost close to the amount of the cleaner kit. $15 or so.

But going back to stock or a set-up like UnlimitedLJ04 (and me) has would be better. With a sealed up airbox mud and water splashes aren't an issue.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:50 PM   #15
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since no one will actually answer your question i will lol all you need is a cone filter, go to advance auto/autozone something of that nature, look through the air filters to find one that fits, doesnt have to be the same model number or anything, just as long as it fits, there are more brands than k&n if your worried about that ((i had a k&n box filter on my 03 cavalier and loved it never had a problem with dirt getting past and had it on there for 2 years before getting my jeep but anyways)) so find another brand that is a cone filter that fits on it..
Thank you sir!!

And I didn't mind Anyone elses answers it was just that I already knew that and agree when I get back home I'm completely changing my air into to a box filter
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:51 PM   #16
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I would just clean it . But here is the chart you have to get the tape out see what size you got now -------->K&N Universal Round Tapered Cone Air Filters

I'm with going back to oem too but to each there own
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:52 PM   #17
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:09 PM   #18
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If you had any sense at all, you would head over to the boneyard and pull an OEM filter setup and junk that K&N.

I suspect you intentionally tore out the stock filter unit and box and wasted about $75 bucks for that thing. You got ripped off. The stock pipe and filter are oversized and easiliy deliver just as much air as any K&N, but is much quieter and more efficient at actually filtering out grit. K&N's are about as efficient at filtering out dirt as your average screen door.

I sure hope you learn something at college; I've got two degrees on ya already, kid. If nothing else, learning how to learn will be your greatest asset.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:13 PM   #19
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Actually, if the filter has some dirt and mud on it, it is filtering better than it did new. Have you looked down your TB? Clean it up as needed and after you have some time on the new filter check it again. I'll be curious to know if changing filters really helps. Good luck.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:24 PM   #20
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If you had any sense at all, you would head over to the boneyard and pull an OEM filter setup and junk that K&N.

I suspect you intentionally tore out the stock filter unit and box and wasted about $75 bucks for that thing. You got ripped off. The stock pipe and filter are oversized and easiliy deliver just as much air as any K&N, but is much quieter and more efficient at actually filtering out grit. K&N's are about as efficient at filtering out dirt as your average screen door.

I sure hope you learn something at college; I've got two degrees on ya already, kid. If nothing else, learning how to learn will be your greatest asset.
if u read the whole thread u would notice that that has been said over and over again
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:27 PM   #21
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"One study shows the K&N passed 18X more dirt & clogged up 3X faster than an AC-Delco paper air filter if I recall correctly."

So explain to me how a filter clogs up 3x faster and passes 18x more dirt... AT THE SAME TIME????

And why does the military use oil impregnated cotton filters in the sandbox?

I smell defecating bulls, but all ya'll do what you want.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:02 PM   #22
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Replacement filter RF-1045. Any high flow filter is going to let more dirt through. I would just clean it and oil it, but they have a million mile warranty. If you insist on replacing it, just take it in and exchange it for a new one.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:03 PM   #23
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So explain to me how a filter clogs up 3x faster and passes 18x more dirt... AT THE SAME TIME????
filter media size and surface area characteristics.

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And why does the military use oil impregnated cotton filters in the sandbox?
1. It took the government 5 days to get water to the Superdome, and this is your reference for superiority?
2. They clean them all the time.
Getting from point A to point B needs Vehicle Maintenance
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:22 PM   #24
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Here's the K&N site.
Here's their listing for a 2003 Wrangler 4.0L

I would guess a RF-1045 filter. Quite a selection of wraps available as well such as RF-1045DK filter wrap.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:51 PM   #25
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filter media size and surface area characteristics.


1. It took the government 5 days to get water to the Superdome, and this is your reference for superiority?
2. They clean them all the time.
Getting from point A to point B needs Vehicle Maintenance
1. What does "filter media size and surface area characteristics mean? You can't let more dirt through and clog up faster at the same time.

2. What does water and the Superdome have to do with air filtration? I don't care how often they clean them, they don't use paper filters, and that's the point.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:09 PM   #26
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1. What does "filter media size and surface area characteristics mean? You can't let more dirt through and clog up faster at the same time.

2. What does water and the Superdome have to do with air filtration? I don't care how often they clean them, they don't use paper filters, and that's the point.
1. Filter media size and surface area characteristics refers to the thickness & microstructure of the filter media. Basically the particle size that can pass through the cellulose, gauze or whatever media thats used. Lets assume a two layer surface - If large particles can pass though the first layer, but not the second layer, becoming trapped between the layers, then the media begins to clog. Now at the same time, if slightly small particles can pass through, you just passed junk into the engine. But if you double the surface area of layers, you just halfed the time it takes to clog up. Lower the surface area, widen the holes in first layer of media and bingo you've got a filter that clogs faster and passes more junk.

2. I ran an oiled type filter for a few years on a Cold Air Intake. I ended up cleaning it every 2-3 weeks in Colorado because it would clog with dust, road debris, junk, etc...resulting in a poor idle, clogged sensors, very dirty throttle body and a 4.0L that ran like crap. I spent more money on trying to keep the K&N style filter clean than I would have on 50 paper filters. I could have driven 250,000 miles replacing the paper filter every 3k for what I spent to drive 20k miles cleaning the oiled filter. I now use paper filters in the stock box, change them every 6k miles and everything works like it should. So how is cleaning the filter that clogs more frequently not part of this topic?
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Qwntm View Post
"One study shows the K&N passed 18X more dirt & clogged up 3X faster than an AC-Delco paper air filter if I recall correctly."

So explain to me how a filter clogs up 3x faster and passes 18x more dirt... AT THE SAME TIME????

And why does the military use oil impregnated cotton filters in the sandbox?

I smell defecating bulls, but all ya'll do what you want.
I realize you're new to the K&N subject but what we're saying is not rumor, not made up, not just part of some conspiracy against K&N.

So you can believe it or not, that is entirely up to you.

Just so you'll be up with the rest of us, read one of the air filter test reports at Duramax Air Filter Testing - Diesel Bombers

Note, that test was run under the international ISO 5011 test standards which is to say that the results are scientifically valid and repeatable.

My own personal experience with K&N filters coincides with the above test results. My extremely well-maintained K&N was passing an unbelievable amount of dirt, silica, and sand into my air intake tube and throttle body. It didn't take me long to discover that at all. You can see above in my earlier post the two prefilters I had to place over the top of the K&N to get it to filter my local dusty desert dirt out of the air.

K&N filters are fine in the city, and they are fine for K&N sponsored desert racers whose engines get torn down and pretty well totally rebuilt between races. But for those of us who offroad in dusty conditions, it's my strongest possible opinion that the K&N air filter is a poor choice... and in reality, pretty close to the worst possible choice in dusty dirty conditions.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:37 PM   #28
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:17 AM   #29
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I realize you're new to the K&N subject but what we're saying is not rumor, not made up, not just part of some conspiracy against K&N.

So you can believe it or not, that is entirely up to you.

Just so you'll be up with the rest of us, read one of the air filter test reports at Duramax Air Filter Testing - Diesel Bombers

Note, that test was run under the international ISO 5011 test standards which is to say that the results are scientifically valid and repeatable.

My own personal experience with K&N filters coincides with the above test results. My extremely well-maintained K&N was passing an unbelievable amount of dirt, silica, and sand into my air intake tube and throttle body. It didn't take me long to discover that at all. You can see above in my earlier post the two prefilters I had to place over the top of the K&N to get it to filter my local dusty desert dirt out of the air.

K&N filters are fine in the city, and they are fine for K&N sponsored desert racers whose engines get torn down and pretty well totally rebuilt between races. But for those of us who offroad in dusty conditions, it's my strongest possible opinion that the K&N air filter is a poor choice... and in reality, pretty close to the worst possible choice in dusty dirty conditions.
Hi Jerry, I appreciate the information. Here's the thing though.

K&N is bad if MAXIMUM filtration is your goal. K&N is one of the best if MAXIMUM flow is your goal:

"The less efficient filters correspondingly had less restriction to flow. This illustrates the apparent trade-offs between optimizing a filter for dirt capturing ability and maximum airflow."

Also note that the K&N had an exponential response curve meaning that with regular maintenance you get more flow.

The argument really boils down to: If the less efficient filters (like K&N) filter the airflow enough to prevent engine damage over time, then the increased airflow is a bonus, if not then the compromise of reduced flow is worth it.

The sand and such that you experienced sounds like a bad seal, not the K&N filter to me. I've run a K&N in my Tacoma for 100,000 miles and my air box is dirty sandy before the filter and like factory new after the filter.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:20 AM   #30
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1. Filter media size and surface area characteristics refers to the thickness & microstructure of the filter media. Basically the particle size that can pass through the cellulose, gauze or whatever media thats used. Lets assume a two layer surface - If large particles can pass though the first layer, but not the second layer, becoming trapped between the layers, then the media begins to clog. Now at the same time, if slightly small particles can pass through, you just passed junk into the engine. But if you double the surface area of layers, you just halfed the time it takes to clog up. Lower the surface area, widen the holes in first layer of media and bingo you've got a filter that clogs faster and passes more junk.

2. I ran an oiled type filter for a few years on a Cold Air Intake. I ended up cleaning it every 2-3 weeks in Colorado because it would clog with dust, road debris, junk, etc...resulting in a poor idle, clogged sensors, very dirty throttle body and a 4.0L that ran like crap. I spent more money on trying to keep the K&N style filter clean than I would have on 50 paper filters. I could have driven 250,000 miles replacing the paper filter every 3k for what I spent to drive 20k miles cleaning the oiled filter. I now use paper filters in the stock box, change them every 6k miles and everything works like it should. So how is cleaning the filter that clogs more frequently not part of this topic?
1. The exponential curve vs. the linear curve in the test is the answer. And actually according to the test we're both right, it just depends on where you point to on the graph!

2. It sounds like the oiled filter was working well. Everything is a compromise, it just depends on what your goals are or what you think they are.

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