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Old 05-08-2007, 04:32 PM   #1
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Arrow Let's talk axles...

I have an 03 SWB Rubicon with all the standard (OEM) drive train goodies. Since I’m running 34” tires I feel that I’m about at the limit of what my axles can handle and if I ever wanted to move up to say 37’s what would I need to upgrade them to? Is a chromoly axle shaft with a stock spline going to be strong enough? Should I look at increasing my spline count and ditch the stock lockers and go with an ARB? Am I going to blow up my stock lockers? What else would be the weak points in my drive train?

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Old 05-08-2007, 04:51 PM   #2
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34's should be fine for two dana 44's.If you want to get 37's I would buid up the 44's or get a ford 8.8 for the rear or dana 60's

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4.0/np231/ax15/d30/d35
flowmaster40,hpd30 with aussie locker,currie upper joints,4.88's, lca skids,chromo shafts,vanco brakes,d35 with super 35 and arb locker,re 4.5" springs,currie arms,re front uppers,Re shocks in back,walkerevens shocks up front, Re track bars with currie jj joints,anti rock,ss brake lines,re rear sway bar links,jks 1.25" bl and mml,bfg 35x12.5 km2's,craiger soft 8's,ome steering stabilizer,currie hd steering,rockmen front bumper,emp tank skid,lots more too.
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:57 PM   #3
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If it was my jeep I would get new axles shafts and arb's fornt and rear with a higher splin count.
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4.0/np231/ax15/d30/d35
flowmaster40,hpd30 with aussie locker,currie upper joints,4.88's, lca skids,chromo shafts,vanco brakes,d35 with super 35 and arb locker,re 4.5" springs,currie arms,re front uppers,Re shocks in back,walkerevens shocks up front, Re track bars with currie jj joints,anti rock,ss brake lines,re rear sway bar links,jks 1.25" bl and mml,bfg 35x12.5 km2's,craiger soft 8's,ome steering stabilizer,currie hd steering,rockmen front bumper,emp tank skid,lots more too.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:08 PM   #4
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is your driveway that steep leading to your garage?
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:23 PM   #5
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Scott, to run 37's on your 44's all you need to do is upgrade your shafts to chromoly and put some good u-joints up front. Then you will have STRONGER shafts/joints and still have your old setup as spares. Should you upgrade to 33 spline shafts and manage to break something you are screwed unless you buy 2 sets of everything. IMO it's all about minimizing down time and maximizing what you can fix should you need to. Waiting for 5 days to get a new shaft replaced (even if it's on warranty) isn't something I want to deal with.

Check out the site or give Joe a call and he can hook you up with some Alloy USA shafts. I know he even has the rear 30 spline 44 shafts on special this month. Throw in some dynatrac covers to add some rigidity to everything and you will be fine running on 37's. Hell Alloy even has 30 spline outers with 30 spline unit bearings that you can put in there to strengthen up the entire front axle.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:31 PM   #6
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Thanks Jack. By upgrading the axles will that potentially weaken anything else? Ring and Pinion? Anything like that?
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:40 PM   #7
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Thanks Jack. By upgrading the axles will that potentially weaken anything else? Ring and Pinion? Anything like that?
Yes there is something to be said about building something that has a "Cheaper" weak point. There is always the opportunity that one could break a R&P. However there are a lot of different variables that usually are met before that happens. So many that it's not even in my mind when I'm wheelin thinking it will happen.

Again in my opinion stiffening up the pumpkin with full covers and only going with 30 spline chromoly replacements will still minimize any "Non-Trail Reparable" damage that could happen. You'd be more likely to break the joints in your DShaft first before you started blowing up R&P's on a D44. It's also why I only run 1310 joints/yokes on my dshafts. I'd rather a $250 dshaft break on me than an $600 R&P job, just because I have 1350 or 1410 joints in my shaft.

Unless you are putting in a V8 and running 40's there's really no benefit to going D60's (With Andy's Build he needs the beef, you don't) and as someone said earlier about an 8.8. If you already have a 44 out back then there's no reason to swap in an 8.8 seeing as they as so close strength wise.

Believe me, I had a serious tendency to way over analyze everything I was doing to my jeep. As as a matter of fact a certain WF Vendor even told me today I was thinking way to much about some gear i'm buying for my rig. Keep your builds as simple as possible and you will never go wrong.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:01 PM   #8
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While you can install stronger u-joints and alloy (like from Warn, Superior Axle, or Alloy USA) into your axles, the front D44 is still not really up to 37" tires. The Rubicon's front Dana 44 uses the same axle tubes and knuckles as the TJ's Dana 30 does which aren't up to good long-term survivability with 37" tires. I'd feel comfortable with 35" tires on a Rubicon and that's it, no matter what axleshafts are installed. I have f/r alloy axleshafts and though I nearly went to 37" tires, got talked out of them by several hard-core Johnson Valley regulars who have had bad luck with 37" tires on that combination.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:03 PM   #9
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I would stick with the 44's.To bad i have a shity little d35 out back.I don't want to lock it but are there any better axles for the d35 with the stock splin count? A d35 is 27 splins?
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4.0/np231/ax15/d30/d35
flowmaster40,hpd30 with aussie locker,currie upper joints,4.88's, lca skids,chromo shafts,vanco brakes,d35 with super 35 and arb locker,re 4.5" springs,currie arms,re front uppers,Re shocks in back,walkerevens shocks up front, Re track bars with currie jj joints,anti rock,ss brake lines,re rear sway bar links,jks 1.25" bl and mml,bfg 35x12.5 km2's,craiger soft 8's,ome steering stabilizer,currie hd steering,rockmen front bumper,emp tank skid,lots more too.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
While you can install stronger u-joints and alloy (like from Warn, Superior Axle, or Alloy USA) into your axles, the front D44 is still not really up to 37" tires. The Rubicon's front Dana 44 uses the same axle tubes and knuckles as the TJ's Dana 30 does which aren't up to good long-term survivability with 37" tires. I'd feel comfortable with 35" tires on a Rubicon and that's it, no matter what axleshafts are installed. I have f/r alloy axleshafts and though I nearly went to 37" tires, got talked out of them by several hard-core Johnson Valley regulars who have had bad luck with 37" tires on that combination.
Gotta think about your audience too Jerry. Most of the people here even with 37's won't be running anything like we do out here in the West. JV is different because it's mostly boulder fields leading up washes with misc real obsticles thrown in. There's plenty of chance to bust knuckles, ball joints, bend tubes coming down hard on them etc.... However in places like Moab even you don't have that kind of terrain. Here in AZ we have ALL kinds of different terrain where rock crawling is involved. But there's no need for the majority of the people in America to go spending 3 - 5k on front D44 or D60 steering axles for the terrains that they traverse in their regions.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:10 PM   #11
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Dont rubicon models come with ARB lockers stock?
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:11 PM   #12
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Dont rubicon models come with ARB lockers stock?
I don't think so.
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99 sahara
4.0/np231/ax15/d30/d35
flowmaster40,hpd30 with aussie locker,currie upper joints,4.88's, lca skids,chromo shafts,vanco brakes,d35 with super 35 and arb locker,re 4.5" springs,currie arms,re front uppers,Re shocks in back,walkerevens shocks up front, Re track bars with currie jj joints,anti rock,ss brake lines,re rear sway bar links,jks 1.25" bl and mml,bfg 35x12.5 km2's,craiger soft 8's,ome steering stabilizer,currie hd steering,rockmen front bumper,emp tank skid,lots more too.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:12 PM   #13
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You guys are making some very good points and it's much appreciated. I'm thinking a little more long term as I'm planning on doing a pretty big rebuild this summer and breaking axles is one of my biggest fears. (No mall jokes please )

Let me pose this question: If you wanted to build up your stock Dana 44 axles and make them as strong as possible (keeping the factory locker) what would you need to do? Overkill is ok with me - I'm just looking for an example (or two). Also, links would be nice.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:21 PM   #14
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New shafts and u joint thats all that comes to mind if you don't want a higher splin count.
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4.0/np231/ax15/d30/d35
flowmaster40,hpd30 with aussie locker,currie upper joints,4.88's, lca skids,chromo shafts,vanco brakes,d35 with super 35 and arb locker,re 4.5" springs,currie arms,re front uppers,Re shocks in back,walkerevens shocks up front, Re track bars with currie jj joints,anti rock,ss brake lines,re rear sway bar links,jks 1.25" bl and mml,bfg 35x12.5 km2's,craiger soft 8's,ome steering stabilizer,currie hd steering,rockmen front bumper,emp tank skid,lots more too.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:24 PM   #15
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Dont rubicon models come with ARB lockers stock?
NO - they are produced by "Tochigi Fuji Sangyo KK"... but in 2005 known as "GKN Driveline Torque Technology KK"

Factory Rubi lockers run on ~10psi while ARB's are like ~80psi
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:31 PM   #16
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Once you upgrade the shafts and joint the tubes flexing would be my next concern, perhaps some sort of weld on tube support for them.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:32 PM   #17
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Ya Rubi lockers are kinda a pain to lock in and out somedays.. gotta wait for 'em to pump up and release pressure, maybe move forward and back a few times

Better than nothing though.

Scout, your my inspiration with my Jeep dude. Everytime I see a post you start, I get out the pen and paper and take notes for the day that mine is paid off, warranty is out, and I can mod her! Keep up the good work man.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:32 PM   #18
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So there japanese, wow thats something new i learned today.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:35 PM   #19
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Once you upgrade the shafts and joint the tubes flexing would be my next concern, perhaps some sort of weld on tube support for them.
YA maybe a welded brace from one side of the axle to the other side.
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99 sahara
4.0/np231/ax15/d30/d35
flowmaster40,hpd30 with aussie locker,currie upper joints,4.88's, lca skids,chromo shafts,vanco brakes,d35 with super 35 and arb locker,re 4.5" springs,currie arms,re front uppers,Re shocks in back,walkerevens shocks up front, Re track bars with currie jj joints,anti rock,ss brake lines,re rear sway bar links,jks 1.25" bl and mml,bfg 35x12.5 km2's,craiger soft 8's,ome steering stabilizer,currie hd steering,rockmen front bumper,emp tank skid,lots more too.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:36 PM   #20
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Ya Rubi lockers are kinda a pain to lock in and out somedays.. gotta wait for 'em to pump up and release pressure, maybe move forward and back a few times

Better than nothing though.

Scout, your my inspiration with my Jeep dude. Everytime I see a post you start, I get out the pen and paper and take notes for the day that mine is paid off, warranty is out, and I can mod her! Keep up the good work man.
Awww you made me tear up a little. You don't take notes on the Off Topic threads I start do you?

Thanks!!!
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:38 PM   #21
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Scout, I have a Rubi and I have 37's. Jack is on the right track with the Alloys. I went AlloyUSA chromo in the rear (stock 30 spline count) and AlloyUSA chromo in the front (stock 30 spline inners and upgraded 30 spline outers with AlloyUSA serviceable x-joints). Then added Precision Gear 5.13's and Crane chromo covers F&R. You can't go any stronger than this without switching to ARB's. You could perhaps use CTM u-joints but AlloyUSA feels it's not necessary.

According to AlloyUSA it's a well balanced setup that should run 37's without major issues and is warrantied for 10 years - no questions asked. This includes everything but the stock lockers of course and it is "possible" that this is now my weak point but that remains to be seen.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:53 PM   #22
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Gotta think about your audience too Jerry. Most of the people here even with 37's won't be running anything like we do out here in the West. JV is different because it's mostly boulder fields leading up washes with misc real obsticles thrown in. There's plenty of chance to bust knuckles, ball joints, bend tubes coming down hard on them etc.... However in places like Moab even you don't have that kind of terrain. Here in AZ we have ALL kinds of different terrain where rock crawling is involved. But there's no need for the majority of the people in America to go spending 3 - 5k on front D44 or D60 steering axles for the terrains that they traverse in their regions.
Yep, I will go along with that. Though if someone actually needs 37" tires for something besides their looks, they are probably doing some fairly tough terrain where a D30-size knuckle and tube would be at its limits.
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:39 PM   #23
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Scout I want to upgrade to D44 so if you do decide to go bigger let me know since your not to far away. I'm gonna be trying to get better ones in a few months if everything goes as planned. Maybe you will want to sale them.
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:45 PM   #24
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Mike, I plan on keeping the D44's. I just want to beef them up as much as possible. The only way I'd get gid of them is if someone wanted to trade me even for some Dyntrac axles. But we all know that's never gonna happen!!!
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:01 PM   #25
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I plan on getting some I seen in the Jeep mag I believe this month the ones they used on project steal j but can 't seem to find them on the website. I want those.
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Old 05-09-2007, 03:11 PM   #26
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How about this:

http://www.4x4rockshop.com/scripts/p...dproduct=10642

http://www.4x4rockshop.com/scripts/p...idproduct=9913

Is there anything else I would need or do you think this should cover it? (links used just as an example )
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Old 05-09-2007, 04:24 PM   #27
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For the shafts, yes, but you will also probably want front axle seals. Wherever you get it from, I would perhaps consider a step up from the Spicer 760 u-joints. I got my x-joints as an upgrade from AlloyUSA at NC.

Are you going to regear as well? The reason I ask is some vendors will do a kit that includes everything: front inners, seals, u-joints, outers, unit bearings, rears, gears, rebuild kits, and diff covers which can add up to pretty decent savings.
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Old 05-09-2007, 04:31 PM   #28
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I sent Mike a PM and he said he didn't have a clue what u-joints the fronts came with. Go figure?!?! I guess the only way to know is to wait until they get here and replace them with the 760's if that's not what they have. I could always keep the others as spares.

I considered regearing but I think I'll actually wait on that for now. My stock gears really arn't that bad right now with the current size tires I'm running. I realize I could save a few bucks by buying as a package but I'm really not too concerned with that right now.

I'm thinking I might start out with the rears first then upgrade the fronts in a month or so. I have a pretty agressive build plan for this summer and I'm still trying to get settled on a couple of ways I'm going to go. I just didn't want to overlook axles as I'm always so paranoid I'm going to break one on the trail. I'd love to be able to wheel worry free and I think the direction you guys have given me will ease my worries.
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Old 05-09-2007, 04:42 PM   #29
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If they are AlloyUSA shafts they will come with either Spicer 760's (standard) or if you are lucky (or beg) AlloyUSA x-joints (upgrade).

I did forget to mention, the one disadvantage to getting gears online is most installers will not warranty the gears unless you purchase the gears from them.
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Old 05-09-2007, 04:45 PM   #30
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Makes sense on the u-joints. Either way the u-joints really arn't that expensive in the whole scheme of things.

If I were to regear I would definantly go with a local shop. Hopefully I can find someone around here who carries Alloy and is willing to do the install without killing me on the price. We'll see.

Thanks for the help RRTJ.

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