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Old 07-17-2013, 11:36 AM   #1
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My fan is roaring like a 747.

So, I've done searches both in Google and on the forum, but have seen conflicting information.

My fan runs all the time. It's ok at low rpm but starting around 2k it starts getting loud and at 3-4k it sounds like I have the rear-end of a bus coming through my windshield.

With the engine off and cold, I can spin the fan at least 2-3 rotations. There is obvious resistance but it is smooth; no griding or wobbling. I've heard from some sources it should be spinning freely and some say there *should* be some light to moderate resistance. One source even said it should be locked when cold and spin when hot, but that doesn't make sense to me and I think it was miswritten.

Is there anything else other than the clutch which controls fan operation? It seems to me that if there is supposed to be resistance then it is behaving as expected. (Except, obviously, when I'm actually driving)

Chances are it needs a clutch replacement but I don't want to go replacing a part if there is another factor I'm not thinking about.

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Old 07-17-2013, 11:40 AM   #2
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In an OEM configuration the clutch is all that controls the fan.

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Old 07-17-2013, 11:46 AM   #3
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There's a seven-blade fan that was offered as a cooling system upgrade as a tech service bulletin (can't remember the #). Part of the verbage was "advise the customer of the possibility of increased fan noise". I had it on an 01, and it was noisy despite a fan clutch replacement (reminded of 80's vintage S-10's with the V-6; they sounded like a jet when accelerating).
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #4
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^^ Interesting thought, but I just checked and it is indeed a 5-blade.

I also kept spinning it thinking maybe it would lock up, but it never does when the engine is cold. I could do a test when the engine is hot as well if that helps anyone diagnose the issue, but I imagine it will be engaged and locked when hot like it should be, since it's always making noise.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #5
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mine is noisy too. I figured it was just another jeep thing. But it does it in the middle of winter too before engine even has time to heat up. seems like mine is always on no matter what the temp.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:32 PM   #6
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It's certianly not the norm... otherwise, it would just be hard-connected to the shaft without the use of a clutch.

I don't think besides maybe creating more drag on the system it is a real harm per se. It would certainly be more of a harm if it wasn't turning at all and *ever* helping to cool.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:34 PM   #7
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The mechanical fan clutch may just be bad. It operates like a thermostat and is designed to engage the fan when hot & disengage the fan when cold. Most look like the below.

One thing to know about fan clutches... before being installed, they must have been stored in a vertical position like they are installed in. They have silicone inside & if they are stored in a flat position, the silicone can run out & ruin the clutch.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:50 PM   #8
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as long as it's spinning and cooling i can live with it for now. No reason spending money on an annoyance that isn't hurting anything.

Thanks for the storage tip though jerry, did not know that. It is very possible the clutch is bad. got 150,000+ on this thing and i'm second owner, don't know if it was ever changed out.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:18 PM   #9
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150k miles is a lot for a fan clutch, may not be a bad idea to change it out. Make sure if you buy one that the store you buy it from knew enough to have stocked and stored it vertically.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:49 PM   #10
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as long as it's spinning and cooling i can live with it for now. No reason spending money on an annoyance that isn't hurting anything.

.
If it is locking up when it should not (evidenced by it being so loud) it is zapping a lot of power from the engine and will hurt mileage. Change it out.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:17 PM   #11
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How much do those things cost for a decent replacement? I don't want the cheap crap that will go out on me.

doesn't look very hard, 4 bolts from the pic.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #12
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What I read claims you need a special fan tool to remove it from the shaft, but it looks to me like any common wrench should fit in there. Doesn't look like a big job, really.

Replacements look surprisingly reasonable. I know Ebay isn't a great source for quality parts, but they only want $30ish for the ones on there so I imagine a quality unit (though not from the stealership shouldn't be more than $50 or so)
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #13
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The big brass nut on the clutch just requires a big Crescent wrench. The special tool you found mentioned is something I wouldn't do that particular job without, a strap wrench. The strap wrench holds the pulley from moving while you use the Crescent wrench. That nut is tight & things will slip if not held by the strap wrench. And you need a big strap wrench, most aren't big enough (most straps aren't long enough).

Do a search in the Google Images section for 'strap wrench' and you'll see what it looks like.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:59 PM   #14
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most jobs i've done so far, buying the tools needed was still cheaper than labor rates at the dealer. I'll probably just look into that tool. I think i have a strap wrench laying around somewhere but like you said, probably not big enough.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:19 PM   #15
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The only other cause for noise I can think of is possibly a bent or distorted fan blade. You could let it idle till it engages then get an eyeball on it. Just a thought.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:03 PM   #16
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Well, it's kinda engaged ALL the time, I think. That's the problem.

Actually, the strap wrench wasn't what I had seen mentioned. They were talking about a specific fan wrench which is thinner than a usual wrench; like is made out of a simple piece of metal sheet stock.

Like this:
http://www.mytoolstore.com/astro/7895.jpg

But again, I don't think it would be required here... there's lots of room for a regular crescent wrench. Nice advice on the strap wrench though! I bet a strap oil filter wrench would do the trick too if it happens to fit...
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:05 PM   #17
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It does sound like the clutch is bad. When hot it should have some drag. No side/side or up/down play, and not locked up. Manual says IF you have a 4.0L with serpentine belt-the new clutch MUST be marked REVERSE. This clutch nut tightens clockwise for this engine/serpentine belt configuration. If you get the wrong fan clutch it will alow engine to overheat according to manual. Do you have "V" belts or serpentine belt? better yet, just buy a Hanes repair manual. Good reading on rainy day, and you will need it sooner or later for something else. $ 17.00 from Quadratech or 4wheel parts -which probably has an OEM or better clutch- cheaper than a Jeep dealer.I would not buy an El-cheapo from discount auto parts house. I would buy from Napa though, if I needed to.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:06 PM   #18
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That tool isn't needed, there is enough room for a standard open-end wrench or Crescent wrench on that particular nut. It's a big nut, bigger than my largest 1" open-end wrench, so I just use my extra-large Crescent wrench on it.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Well, it's kinda engaged ALL the time, I think. That's the problem.

Actually, the strap wrench wasn't what I had seen mentioned. They were talking about a specific fan wrench which is thinner than a usual wrench; like is made out of a simple piece of metal sheet stock.

Like this:
http://www.mytoolstore.com/astro/7895.jpg

But again, I don't think it would be required here... there's lots of room for a regular crescent wrench. Nice advice on the strap wrench though! I bet a strap oil filter wrench would do the trick too if it happens to fit...
You can rent this tool at Oreillys or autozone or advanced. It helps make it a super easy job. I swapped fans on my f150 several times in a matter of a few days while I was experimenting with something and this fan clutch tool made it a breeze.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:37 PM   #20
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never looked to see if it was serpentine or V. i will check that out later, but thanks for the heads up on the reverse clutch.

I've always been a fan of the original 5.0 (ford) and you ran into the same problems since you could get it in both configurations. I had forgotten all about that compatibility issue.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:38 PM   #21
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That tool isn't needed, there is enough room for a standard open-end wrench or Crescent wrench on that particular nut. It's a big nut, bigger than my largest 1" open-end wrench, so I just use my extra-large Crescent wrench on it.

Yeah i probably have something laying around that will fit. I'm always buying tools for some job or another.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:49 PM   #22
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Mom's Cherokee has been doing this ever since it was hit by an 18-wheeler on the freeway 8 years ago. Still has been the daily-driver!
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:51 PM   #23
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My clutch acts up as well. It makes my belt squeal at about 3k rpm when the ac is on and chirps with any fast gun of the throttle.

I plan on replacing it asap!
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:01 PM   #24
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ok - so for those who care...

I finally installed a new fan clutch.

All over the internet, taking off the fan clutch nut is said to be really simple - in some cases the worst you need to do is keep the belt from moving on the pulleys. Well, mine was on so tight that even with the pulleys and belt fused together with a C-clamp, the water pump/fan pulley just slipped and didn't come off. I tried torching, penetrating oil, banging it with an air hammer, and all the other methods which are supposed to work. I'm also 220 pounds so not exactly lacking force with a wrench.

What I ended up doing was bolting a long piece of steel stock to two bolts on the water pump pulley, and then putting a long pipe on the crescent wrench. (I believe there are universal wrenches that exist to do exactly this. I couldn't find one, so made a tool that would work instead) Finally with the extra leverage and hours of swearing it came free.

I had read that it can take a little while (30 seconds?) for the fluid to move to where it needs to in order to disengage the fan upon initial startup. This is entirely true. I get the roar when first turned on, but after a short while it starts quieting down. Inside a minute the roaring almost no longe exists at any rev.


The Jeep is SOOO much quieter now. I haven't actually had a chance to drive it
much since, but I'm hoping it restores some power as well, since with 33's, 3.07 gearing and a so-far-unidentified engine miss my TJ is pretty gutless up hills.

Tip: I know they changed the design at one point. Perhaps around 2000+. My particular clutch was removed with counter clockwise force on the nut (contrary to what some sites say) and the fan itself had to be a reverse rotation fan. I believe if anyone reading this has a serpentine belt (as opposed to the v-belt) and a 2000+ that any replacement would be identical.

Also, no special fan tool is required; there is plenty of room in there for a crescent wrench. If you're going to tackle this job though, hopefully yours isn't on as tight as mine was or you too will have to figure out a way to provide reverse force on the pulley as well.

Finally- sites often say you need to remove the fan shroud, etc. You don't. Once my clutch was unbolted, it slipped out fine.

Quote:
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My clutch acts up as well. It makes my belt squeal at about 3k rpm when the ac is on and chirps with any fast gun of the throttle.

I plan on replacing it asap!
Are you sure that's your fan clutch causing the issues? Sounds almost like your AC clutch instead....
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:47 AM   #25
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Well i ignored it for a while. But a few days ago something happened and the sounds it was making got far worse. Sounded like that diesel bus mentioned earlier. So i replaced it, it was not fun at all, but i got it done. Immediately quieter. But i've only listened to it at idle and jabbed the throttle a bit. Haven't had time to get out and drive it yet. Seems like that problem is fixed though. Hopefully it will help out mileage slightly now that the engine doesn't have to push around that POS old fan clutch anymore.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:58 AM   #26
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So just drove it around and it is quieter. but there is still a squealing going on somewhere like there is a bad bearing somewhere.

Cluch fan needed replacing anyway so nothing wasted there, but it was only masking this noise that i can now hear much clearer.

About to go get my redneck stethoscope out and start poking around. Any good guesses where to start?
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:32 PM   #27
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Any good guesses where to start?
pulley
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:44 PM   #28
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well i poked around a bit and it seems like the noise is loudest near the power steering pump. i'm hoping that isn't the problem cuz that sounds expensive.

either way though this secondary squeeling noise seems to have started right after this flooding we've been having. had to drive through some deep water to get to work cuz drainage on base sucks. and now i have a squealing noise.

coincidentally i had electrical problems in my last vehicle after driving through that same flooded out spot to get to work.

at least this time it's not electrical.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:53 PM   #29
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Bearing on one of the pulleys. Just remove the belt and had spin each one by hand and you will find the grumbler in there.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:58 PM   #30
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Best idea i've heard so far, thanks for the help. Now for the even dumber question since i haven't needed to take it off before. Whats the easiest way to get the belt off and back on again?

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