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Old 09-01-2014, 03:07 PM   #1
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need help asap!

2003 wrangler rubicon.
replaced my clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and starter. got it all back together and the starter will crank but it wont start. my gauges aren't working but I have radio. all the connections on the starter are fine. and all of them that go all the way to the back of the transfer case are clicked in and fine. all fuses are good as well. any ideas?

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Old 09-01-2014, 03:27 PM   #2
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Crankshaft position sensor not reconnected or bolted in?

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Old 09-01-2014, 04:06 PM   #3
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Crankshaft position sensor not reconnected or bolted in?
its definitely connected. I saw somewhere that someone said it has a paper gasket or something to keep it aligned right. Ever heard of this?
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:20 PM   #4
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The paper piece is a spacer that helps set its position but it's not critical if you put the CPS back on the way it came off.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:24 PM   #5
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Besides the gauges, what else in the cluster, if anything, is not working when you turn the key on? CEL, air bag light, seat belt light, etc.?

When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds then turn off?
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:34 PM   #6
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Besides the gauges, what else in the cluster, if anything, is not working when you turn the key on? CEL, air bag light, seat belt light, etc.? When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds then turn off?
fuel pump does not run. My idiot lights run their cycle like normal. And I can do the gauge test where you hole the mileage button and click the ignition on. Would a bad CPS cause no power to my gauges though?
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:39 PM   #7
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A bad CPS would not cause the fuel pump to not run or the gauges to not work. My bet is you somehow popped a fuse.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:44 PM   #8
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A bad CPS would not cause the fuel pump to not run or the gauges to not work. My bet is you somehow popped a fuse.
checked all fuses and they're all intact and working. Is there any sort of ground wire towards the back of the block that might have come off?
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:48 PM   #9
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You checked all the fuses in both fuse panel locations?
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:52 PM   #10
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You checked all the fuses in both fuse panel locations?
both behind the glove box and under the hood. All of them are fine.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:54 PM   #11
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Recheck fuse 12 in the block behind the glove box. If good, check to see if you are getting power TO the fuse with the key on.
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:27 PM   #12
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Recheck fuse 12 in the block behind the glove box. If good, check to see if you are getting power TO the fuse with the key on.
checked power to all fuses. All are intact. But I'll break it down by fuse box:

Under the hood: no power to o2 sensors or fuel injector fuses

Behind glove box: ONLY have power to fuses 17,1, 2, 3, 18, and 19
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:29 PM   #13
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Recheck fuse 12 in the block behind the glove box. If good, check to see if you are getting power TO the fuse with the key on.
with ignition on however behind the glovebox panel has all but 4 and 15 working
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:26 PM   #14
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OK so power to fuses from ignition switch is good.

Are you referring to fuse 28 as the O2 & injector fuse?

That should have power when the ASD relay is closed. That should happen at least for 2-3 seconds when the key is 1st turned on. It will shut off after that unless the engine is cranking & the PCM is getting a signal from the crank sensor. That is the same as for the FP relay so if you are not getting the FP to run for those 2-3 seconds I’m guessing the ASD is not closing at all with the key on. Double check that to be sure. If you happen to be getting power there for those few seconds then nothing that indicates a likely loss of crank sensor signal.

The fact that the gauges are not working & the PCM is getting power (from fuse 12 in the block) indicates a possible PCM problem. Make sure you are getting key on power to the PCM connector C-1 pin 2 (black connector, dark blue/white wire). Also make sure you are getting battery power to pin 22 (red/white wire) in the same connector.
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:29 PM   #15
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OK so power to fuses from ignition switch is good. Are you referring to fuse 28 as the O2 & injector fuse? That should have power when the ASD relay is closed. That should happen at least for 2-3 seconds when the key is 1st turned on. It will shut off after that unless the engine is cranking & the PCM is getting a signal from the crank sensor. That is the same as for the FP relay so if you are not getting the FP to run for those 2-3 seconds I’m guessing the ASD is not closing at all with the key on. Double check that to be sure. If you happen to be getting power there for those few seconds then nothing that indicates a likely loss of crank sensor signal. The fact that the gauges are not working & the PCM is getting power (from fuse 12 in the block) indicates a possible PCM problem. Make sure you are getting key on power to the PCM connector C-1 pin 2 (black connector, dark blue/white wire). Also make sure you are getting battery power to pin 22 (red/white wire) in the same connector.
fuel pump fuse 28 and o2 sensor fuse 16 under the hood. I tried disconnecting the CPS because I saw that it may bring the guages back but nothing
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:53 PM   #16
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OK, I see fuse 16 gets power like 28 from the ASD when closed. Still need to check the ASD for operation when the key is 1st turned on & power to the PCM as noted above.
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:09 PM   #17
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OK, I see fuse 16 gets power like 28 from the ASD when closed. Still need to check the ASD for operation when the key is 1st turned on & power to the PCM as noted above.
asd gets power just fine. Replaced the relay just to be safe and same result. Nothing changed
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:36 PM   #18
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Its not if it is getting power, its if it is closing for 2-3 seconds at key on. Then when trying to start (cranking) if it is staying closed. That is needed to power fuses 16 & 28 which then powers the coil pack & injectors among other things. Besides getting power to the relay the PCM needs to ground the relay coil to close it. Same applies to the fuel pump relay to get fuel. Then you still need to see if the PCM is getting power as noted above.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:35 AM   #19
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Its not if it is getting power, its if it is closing for 2-3 seconds at key on. Then when trying to start (cranking) if it is staying closed. That is needed to power fuses 16 & 28 which then powers the coil pack & injectors among other things. Besides getting power to the relay the PCM needs to ground the relay coil to close it. Same applies to the fuel pump relay to get fuel. Then you still need to see if the PCM is getting power as noted above.
im going to check it after work and get back to you. But if it's open for a couple seconds then closes shouldn't I hear the fuel pump running for a short period?
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:52 AM   #20
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Did you buy a luk kit? I just replaced my clutch and flywheel and luk sent me the wrong flywheel, therefor wrong pickups for the CPS

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Luk flywheel on left
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:57 AM   #21
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Did you buy a luk kit? I just replaced my clutch and flywheel and luk sent me the wrong flywheel, therefor wrong pickups for the CPS Luk flywheel on left
did you catch it before the install? If not what symptoms did you have?
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:54 PM   #22
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Yes, you should hear the FP when the relay CLOSES, then opens unless the PCM gets a crank signal. But if in doubt check the ASD relay too. You should be able to feel them click closed with the key, then click back open if not cranking the engine or no crank signal. You’ll need a helper to work the key for this test.

I have read more than one post about the LUK supplying the wrong flywheel & the engine won’t start. The notches are not in the correct place & the crank signal is either sent at the wrong time (not at TDC) or may be missing completely. Either way, it won’t start. That is why I asked about the fuel pump in my 1st post. If the pump is not coming on that points to a different problem which requires more testing like if the ASD relay is getting proper signals from the PCM. Also you mentioned that the gauges aren’t working which indicates a different problem too. So even if you do have a new LUK flywheel that may not be the problem. Easier to test a few things before pulling the trans out again, right?
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:06 PM   #23
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Yes, you should hear the FP when the relay CLOSES, then opens unless the PCM gets a crank signal. But if in doubt check the ASD relay too. You should be able to feel them click closed with the key, then click back open if not cranking the engine or no crank signal. You’ll need a helper to work the key for this test. I have read more than one post about the LUK supplying the wrong flywheel & the engine won’t start. The notches are not in the correct place & the crank signal is either sent at the wrong time (not at TDC) or may be missing completely. Either way, it won’t start. That is why I asked about the fuel pump in my 1st post. If the pump is not coming on that points to a different problem which requires more testing like if the ASD relay is getting proper signals from the PCM. Also you mentioned that the gauges aren’t working which indicates a different problem too. So even if you do have a new LUK flywheel that may not be the problem. Easier to test a few things before pulling the trans out again, right?
yeah I feel you about pulling the trans again. I matched the flywheels up before install and just checked pictures to be sure again and they definitely match up right.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:07 PM   #24
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Yes, you should hear the FP when the relay CLOSES, then opens unless the PCM gets a crank signal. But if in doubt check the ASD relay too. You should be able to feel them click closed with the key, then click back open if not cranking the engine or no crank signal. You’ll need a helper to work the key for this test. I have read more than one post about the LUK supplying the wrong flywheel & the engine won’t start. The notches are not in the correct place & the crank signal is either sent at the wrong time (not at TDC) or may be missing completely. Either way, it won’t start. That is why I asked about the fuel pump in my 1st post. If the pump is not coming on that points to a different problem which requires more testing like if the ASD relay is getting proper signals from the PCM. Also you mentioned that the gauges aren’t working which indicates a different problem too. So even if you do have a new LUK flywheel that may not be the problem. Easier to test a few things before pulling the trans out again, right?
and I don't hear the FP at all
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:13 PM   #25
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Should the outlet that the CPS plugs into be reading any voltage when I unplug the sensor? Because it doesn't
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:29 PM   #26
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Good that you checked the flywheel.

As stated earlier, the fact that the gauges don’t work & you apparently aren’t getting any FP operation indicates a PCM issue. Usually either you are not getting 5v output to the various sensors or the PCM is not grounding the ASD & FP relay coils.

The crank sensor works like this, the orange wire gets 5v, the black/light blue is the ground & the gray/black is the signal wire. As the engine turns over the sensor should switch between 5v & 0v in the signal wire as it passes the notches in the flywheel.

Important to make sure the PCM has power & ground & also has the 5v signal in 2 places.


First make sure you are getting power to the PCM as note in post 14, then in the same black connector make sure pin 17 has 5v as well as pin 31 in the white connector. Then if good so far unplug the black connector & make sure pins 31 & 32 are grounded.

Here is a link to get wiring diagrams if you don’t have the FSM.

See online read only FSMs here:
Jeep Information Center, Jeep Parts Catalog, Jeep Repair Manual & More
You may have to go to the bottom of the page & pick Jeep Resources & online manuals if it directs you to home page rather than the knowledge base.
Pick your model & year then on the drop down menu pick the chapter you need.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:36 PM   #27
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Good that you checked the flywheel. As stated earlier, the fact that the gauges don’t work & you apparently aren’t getting any FP operation indicates a PCM issue. Usually either you are not getting 5v output to the various sensors or the PCM is not grounding the ASD & FP relay coils. The crank sensor works like this, the orange wire gets 5v, the black/light blue is the ground & the gray/black is the signal wire. As the engine turns over the sensor should switch between 5v & 0v in the signal wire as it passes the notches in the flywheel. Important to make sure the PCM has power & ground & also has the 5v signal in 2 places. First make sure you are getting power to the PCM as note in post 14, then in the same black connector make sure pin 17 has 5v as well as pin 31 in the white connector. Then if good so far unplug the black connector & make sure pins 31 & 32 are grounded. Here is a link to get wiring diagrams if you don’t have the FSM. See online read only FSMs here: Jeep Information Center, Jeep Parts Catalog, Jeep Repair Manual & More You may have to go to the bottom of the page & pick Jeep Resources & online manuals if it directs you to home page rather than the knowledge base. Pick your model & year then on the drop down menu pick the chapter you need.
i just don't understand why all this would be caused my simply unhooking the plugs on the bell housing then plugging them back in when I put that clutch in
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:47 PM   #28
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I don’t know either but you do the clutch then no gauges, no fuel pump, no start. Doesn’t seem to make sense but can’t worry about that now, just have to start working through it to try to figure it out, right?
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:48 PM   #29
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I don’t know either but you do the clutch then no gauges, no fuel pump, no start. Doesn’t seem to make sense but can’t worry about that now, just have to start working through it to try to figure it out, right?
very good point. Just need this thing running in time for a concert on Friday!
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:27 PM   #30
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Also. Do you know of any small ground wires that bolt to the bell housing I may have lost sight of when reinstalling? I don't remember seeing any but they're always small so just trying to rule out something stupid like that.

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