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Old 07-03-2008, 10:05 AM   #1
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New gears, tires and control arms questions

Hey guys,
My TJ, currently with Dana 35 and 30, with 33 12.50's, has the 4.10's I think. I am looking to go to 4.88's this month, if I do this can I go to a 35-12.50 tire if I have adjustable rear upper and lower control arms? I appreciate anyones input.

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1999 TJ 2.5
Aftermarket Header with Flowmaster
ARB Safari Snorkel with Airaid box
TB spacer/Bored out TB
4" Rough Country Lift
33x12.50 Maxxis Bighorns on 15x8 Cragar Soft 8's
Classic Rock Rear Bumper with Tire Carrier
Custom front bumper
4.88 gears

1998 BMW 328i (Wife's)
Upgraded sound and DVD players

2003 Honda RVT1000R (RC51)
Sako pipes
Power commander
Adjustable steering damper, fender eliminator, led's

2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (Wife's)
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:07 AM   #2
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35" tires on a D35 axle can be bad news unless you put stronger axle shafts into the axle.

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Old 07-03-2008, 10:16 AM   #3
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Yeah that's what I've heard, I know some swampers are now available in the tall but narrower sizes, it it the height or the width that is bad on axles, or both equally?
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1999 TJ 2.5
Aftermarket Header with Flowmaster
ARB Safari Snorkel with Airaid box
TB spacer/Bored out TB
4" Rough Country Lift
33x12.50 Maxxis Bighorns on 15x8 Cragar Soft 8's
Classic Rock Rear Bumper with Tire Carrier
Custom front bumper
4.88 gears

1998 BMW 328i (Wife's)
Upgraded sound and DVD players

2003 Honda RVT1000R (RC51)
Sako pipes
Power commander
Adjustable steering damper, fender eliminator, led's

2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (Wife's)
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:25 PM   #4
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It's really just the rolling mass and weight of the tires on an axle that wasn't made for them.

What kind of wheeling do you do? Are your axles locked right now?
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:55 PM   #5
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I wheel on moderate trails, not a lot of mud. I do climb a little, most everything I do a 2 wheel drive four wheeler is capable of. I don't have the motor to really pull the 33x12.50's through big mud without breaking something.

I was just wondering..... I have 33x12.50's on 15x10 steel wheels, would 35x10.50's on steel wheels be the same?
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1999 TJ 2.5
Aftermarket Header with Flowmaster
ARB Safari Snorkel with Airaid box
TB spacer/Bored out TB
4" Rough Country Lift
33x12.50 Maxxis Bighorns on 15x8 Cragar Soft 8's
Classic Rock Rear Bumper with Tire Carrier
Custom front bumper
4.88 gears

1998 BMW 328i (Wife's)
Upgraded sound and DVD players

2003 Honda RVT1000R (RC51)
Sako pipes
Power commander
Adjustable steering damper, fender eliminator, led's

2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (Wife's)
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ2WRANGLER View Post
I wheel on moderate trails, not a lot of mud. I do climb a little, most everything I do a 2 wheel drive four wheeler is capable of. I don't have the motor to really pull the 33x12.50's through big mud without breaking something.

I was just wondering..... I have 33x12.50's on 15x10 steel wheels, would 35x10.50's on steel wheels be the same?
If you leave the rear axle open it will probably be okay for you. The main problem with the 35 is the housing. It is not very strong at all. It starts deflecting which plays hell with the carrier and the spider gears.
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ2WRANGLER View Post
I was just wondering..... I have 33x12.50's on 15x10 steel wheels, would 35x10.50's on steel wheels be the same?
35x10.50 on 15x10 wheels would be even worse. Not only from being harder to turn but also that 15x10 wheel being several inches too wide for 10.5" wide tires. The tire's widest point, 10.5" is only that wide half-way up the sidewall. Its tread and bead width is more like 8", so a 15x8 wheel would be a much better choice. Even with 33x12.50 tires, a 15x8 wheel is a more desireable wheel size. An aired down tire can stay seated on a 15x8 wheel far more easily than it can on a 15x10 wheel. This is because it takes less air pressure to hold a tire spread out only 8" than it does 10". Darned few experienced offroaders run anything but 15x8 with 33x12.50 or 35x12.50 tires for that reason. My own wheels are 15x8 with 35x12.50 tires.

There are lots of reasons bigger tires are bad for the Dana 35c, all of which center around that axle's rather puny axleshafts followed by its less than robust ring & pinion gear sizes. It simply takes more power to turn bigger tires which puts significantly more strain on the axleshafts. The Dana 35c is really at its limits with a 33" tire and an open axle. Install a locker into a Dana 35c and all bets are off with pretty much any Jeep-sized tire. Put another way, I've helped more than a couple Jeepers with busted Dana 35c axleshafts that were only running 31" size tires.

The only way around the weak Dana 35c issue is to install stronger 30 spline axleshafts like in a Super 35 kit from Superior Axle which then allows the fairly safe running of 35" tires with a locker so long as you're not doing competition.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:50 PM   #8
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So if I put a 30 spline axle along with the 4.88's should I be okay with Super Swampers 34x9.50? Another question, I have 15x8 wheels would they be okay for the 9.50's as long as I don't do any extreme wheelin, or deflate them?
__________________
1999 TJ 2.5
Aftermarket Header with Flowmaster
ARB Safari Snorkel with Airaid box
TB spacer/Bored out TB
4" Rough Country Lift
33x12.50 Maxxis Bighorns on 15x8 Cragar Soft 8's
Classic Rock Rear Bumper with Tire Carrier
Custom front bumper
4.88 gears

1998 BMW 328i (Wife's)
Upgraded sound and DVD players

2003 Honda RVT1000R (RC51)
Sako pipes
Power commander
Adjustable steering damper, fender eliminator, led's

2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (Wife's)
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:02 PM   #9
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So if I put a 30 spline axle along with the 4.88's should I be okay with Super Swampers 34x9.50? Another question, I have 15x8 wheels would they be okay for the 9.50's as long as I don't do any extreme wheelin, or deflate them?
__________________
1999 TJ 2.5
Aftermarket Header with Flowmaster
ARB Safari Snorkel with Airaid box
TB spacer/Bored out TB
4" Rough Country Lift
33x12.50 Maxxis Bighorns on 15x8 Cragar Soft 8's
Classic Rock Rear Bumper with Tire Carrier
Custom front bumper
4.88 gears

1998 BMW 328i (Wife's)
Upgraded sound and DVD players

2003 Honda RVT1000R (RC51)
Sako pipes
Power commander
Adjustable steering damper, fender eliminator, led's

2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (Wife's)
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:08 PM   #10
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CJ2,

I think everyone is giving you good advise but take into consideration what they are saying. First of all, do you consider yourself a hardcore offroader? Do you air your tires down when you ride? I see this alot. Guys on this site have so much exerience and knowledge that its hard for them to relate to the guys who ride dirt roads and climb a few gas line hills. Around my hometown, there are guys who have 35's on dana 35's and have wheeled like that for years without problems. They just don't ride hard enough to break them.

Jerry is absolutely right about your rim width. If you air down, an 8" would be much better. But if you do not air down, I would not recommend spending $ on new wheels, which you already have. Also, measure the tire you are wanting to buy, most 35's don't actually measure out. It could be that your tire size will not be changing as much as you thought. But, I think regearing is an absolute necessity to turn larger tires. If you keep the axles open without lockers and aren't wheeling the crap out of it, you should be fine.

I am not trying to say I am right and others are wrong, I just want to say that you can ride around without upgrading the axles. Its not as if they will fall apart when you back out of your driveway.

However, if you have the $, the super 35 is a great upgrade, it what I went with.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:44 PM   #11
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Thanks a lot for everyone's input. I by no means consider myself a hardcore offroader, I do tend to try a little more risky climbs when there is a crowd around, but that is few and far in between. My jeep is mainly a daly driver that sees a good mudhole once in awhile when my little boy wants to go.

I figured the 36x9.50's offered by swamper would be lighter than the 33x12.5maxxis bighorns I have now.

One more question, I know that I need to change the gears in the front when I do the rear, but do I need to change the front axles if I change the rear?

Sorry for all the questions.
__________________
1999 TJ 2.5
Aftermarket Header with Flowmaster
ARB Safari Snorkel with Airaid box
TB spacer/Bored out TB
4" Rough Country Lift
33x12.50 Maxxis Bighorns on 15x8 Cragar Soft 8's
Classic Rock Rear Bumper with Tire Carrier
Custom front bumper
4.88 gears

1998 BMW 328i (Wife's)
Upgraded sound and DVD players

2003 Honda RVT1000R (RC51)
Sako pipes
Power commander
Adjustable steering damper, fender eliminator, led's

2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (Wife's)
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:13 PM   #12
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Front and rear axle ratios much match if you want to shift into 4x4. So you can change ratios one axle at a time to break the cost up but you just can't use 4x4 until the second axle has been regeared. But I can't recommend a 36" tire for your Dana 35, especially since that size tire with even 4.88 gears (the lowest ratio available for your axles) will be inadquate for your four-banger. Not to mention a Dana 35c axle is inadequate for huge tires like that. 4.88 is perfect for a 2.5L equipped Jeep and 33" tires, 35" tires are pushing it both power and Dana 35c strength-wise.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:25 AM   #13
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CJ2, it is not as essential to change out the dana 30 axles. I dont' know the mechanics of it but I asked the same question when I built mine and the answer over and over was that the rear axle is the one that gets all the stress. The front should be fine. I'm not sure if you add a locker if that changes the answer. Maybe others could chime in and explain that a bit.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:56 AM   #14
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I apoligize for the typo, I meant to say 34x9.50's. I had planned on changing the gears front and rear to 4.88's and upgrading just the rear axle, if that is possible?

__________________
1999 TJ 2.5
Aftermarket Header with Flowmaster
ARB Safari Snorkel with Airaid box
TB spacer/Bored out TB
4" Rough Country Lift
33x12.50 Maxxis Bighorns on 15x8 Cragar Soft 8's
Classic Rock Rear Bumper with Tire Carrier
Custom front bumper
4.88 gears

1998 BMW 328i (Wife's)
Upgraded sound and DVD players

2003 Honda RVT1000R (RC51)
Sako pipes
Power commander
Adjustable steering damper, fender eliminator, led's

2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 (Wife's)
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