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Old 12-03-2008, 11:37 AM   #1
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Oil me

Ok..here is a question. I know back in the day it was requirement to change your oil every 3000 miles. reading the oil bottles some now say the oil is good for 10k miles. Dealers still say every 3k, but lets face it they would have you change it every 10 miles if they could, more money for them. When should you change your oil and filter. Seems like the 3k mile standard should of increased with the improvements in the oils?


Note: I change mine every 5k.

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Old 12-03-2008, 12:08 PM   #2
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i change mine every 5k easier to keep up with i just change it on a 5 or a 0 i use vavoline 10-30

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Old 12-03-2008, 12:48 PM   #3
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For normal non-harsh conditions, every 5,000 miles is fine. The 3,000 mile change interval is just something pushed by the quick lube companies who make their living by changing oil for their customers. Valvoline 10W-30 for me too, though actually I switched to 10W-40 a couple years ago after my engine got so many miles on it. It's now approaching 180,000 problem-free miles.
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:57 PM   #4
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jerry i have 160,000 miles.. why did you go up in weight of oil?
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Old 12-03-2008, 01:59 PM   #5
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I've read nothing but good results with running 10W-40 in our 4.0L engines Giancarlo, that and my engine's mileage is why I went from 10W-30 to 10W-40.
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:01 PM   #6
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well i live in new jersey so climates iffy here.. i wheel occasionally ... would you suggest i switch to a 10w-40 oil and if so should i use a high mileage one?
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Old 12-03-2008, 02:04 PM   #7
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In the winter when it's really cold there in NJ, I'd use a 5W-30. For the rest of the year, I'd use a regular conventional 10W-40.
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:35 PM   #8
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The best source to determine which viscosity to use is:

http://www.api.org/certifications/en..._Oil_Guide.pdf

Even they say to use the manufacturers recommended viscosity, but I'm sure most of that is the legal staff talking.

The old days of straight 30 weight in the summer and 15 or 20 in the winter and 3000 mile oil changes are long gone. Todays motor oil (and synthentics) last much longer and provide much more protection. 5000 mile changes are just fine unless you spend your life on a logging road following the trucks around. Then, not so much.

Don't forget that the amount of hours you run is just as important as the mileage. Most folks (even here) can eat up 5000 miles within 3-4 months and don't spend soooo much time on the trail that they need to change it more often (whether from the amount of time the engine is running while not putting miles on the odo, or the amount of dust/dirt and grime you collect on the trail that will find it's way into the crankcase).
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Old 12-03-2008, 05:44 PM   #9
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i'm an ase certified technician, i hate changing oil. i don't think there's enough improvements to say 3k is too often, i change mine at 3k. i see hundreds of cars a month, and people go too long on oil changes. the oil is nasty, leaky, and when i remove valve covers, oil pans, cylinder heads and so on, these engines are nasty.

also, i work in a shop, that is also a valvoline facility. we don't make money changing oil, there's no money in it, and i hate doing it. so trust me, i don't want to do more oil changes, so thats not why i stick to 3k.

look at it this way, most people are only getting their oil changed once or twice a year, what other maintenance, and problems don't they know about, cuz when they do take it in, it is to jiffy lube, and they couldn't tell a valve cover from their butt crack.

synthetic oils and such sure, little longer, but i don't buy them, or care about synthetic motor oil.

oh yeah, one more thing. i've taken off way too many oil filters around 5k that had things loose inside, i could shake them and bypass valves, filter media or something was rolling around inside loose. no thanks.
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Old 12-03-2008, 05:48 PM   #10
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Thats a good point Stevens. I put about 180 miles a week on my Rubi in town driving mostly. The only extreems I have here in the Mojave Desert is the temps. I go from the 20s in the winter to 120 in the summer.

I'm using Quaker State 10w-40. Was thinking about changing to Mobil 1

What oil filter do you guys suggest?
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Old 12-03-2008, 05:58 PM   #11
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how about time? how often would you change it to time? let say you go under 5k in half a year...
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:09 PM   #12
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how about time? how often would you change it to time? let say you go under 5k in half a year...
The dealer puts there little sticker on my wifes car, she is still under warrenty and they put 3 months 3k.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:05 PM   #13
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It's not that the oil "wears out" - if the oil never gets hot enough to burn (breaking it down,) it'll last near forever. If your engine gets it so hot it's even close to the burn point, then you have major issues already - changing oil isn't going to help.

It's the COMBUSTION that limits the oil's life. For example - do you change the diff oils every 3,000 miles, 5,000?

In an internal combustion engine the oil gets dirty - yes the filter is supposed to get rid of the particulates (unless it's a Fram) but it can't catch it all. Those particulates wear things out.

But worse yet - one product of combustion is water - mix a little water along with fuel, and some of the additive chemicals you get several kinds of acids. Unburned fuel, water, additives etc slide down past the rings into the oil. You cannot stop it.
Ever splash used oil in your eye? Burns like crazy - it can even blind you. Ever get any splashed under your arm or "other sensitive area"? Not fun -- acids. Those acids eat your bearings and such. Not good.

The acids form at the same rate no matter what kind of oil you use - from the COMBUSTION. The only way to get rid of it in the oil is dump it out!

Synthetics and some dino oils claim they can take high mileage - but if they put in an acid neutralizer in the oil, IT would eat your bearings. You cannot get away from it if fuel is being burned.
The synthetics say to change it at high mileage intervals to justify the high cost of it.

Changing oil frequently is cheap insurance compared to a new engine.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:22 PM   #14
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It's not that the oil "wears out" - if the oil never gets hot enough to burn (breaking it down,) it'll last near forever. If your engine gets it so hot it's even close to the burn point, then you have major issues already - changing oil isn't going to help.

It's the COMBUSTION that limits the oil's life. For example - do you change the diff oils every 3,000 miles, 5,000?

In an internal combustion engine the oil gets dirty - yes the filter is supposed to get rid of the particulates (unless it's a Fram) but it can't catch it all. Those particulates wear things out.

But worse yet - one product of combustion is water - mix a little water along with fuel, and some of the additive chemicals you get several kinds of acids. Unburned fuel, water, additives etc slide down past the rings into the oil. You cannot stop it.
Ever splash used oil in your eye? Burns like crazy - it can even blind you. Ever get any splashed under your arm or "other sensitive area"? Not fun -- acids. Those acids eat your bearings and such. Not good.

The acids form at the same rate no matter what kind of oil you use - from the COMBUSTION. The only way to get rid of it in the oil is dump it out!

Synthetics and some dino oils claim they can take high mileage - but if they put in an acid neutralizer in the oil, IT would eat your bearings. You cannot get away from it if fuel is being burned.
The synthetics say to change it at high mileage intervals to justify the high cost of it.

Changing oil frequently is cheap insurance compared to a new engine.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:54 PM   #15
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Thats a good point Stevens. I put about 180 miles a week on my Rubi in town driving mostly. The only extreems I have here in the Mojave Desert is the temps. I go from the 20s in the winter to 120 in the summer.

I'm using Quaker State 10w-40. Was thinking about changing to Mobil 1

What oil filter do you guys suggest?
Well, I have had pretty bad luck with Frams (there are folks on this forum that are currently ignoring my userid for speaking the word).

If you make the switch to synthetic, they SAY that you have to stick with it. Not sure how true that is.

As said above, oil essentially gets dirty. A good filter helps with that, but it's all about application.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:23 PM   #16
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Just wondering what kinds of problems do you have w/ frams? not cleaning much or what?
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:31 PM   #17
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i'm no fan of fram either. like i said, i've taken filters off that have had peices loose inside them. frams are lighter, and they use cardboard for bypass valves. and it seems that they sell their more expensive filters, and they have been disected, and no one could find a difference between their premium and regular filters.

wix makes good oil filters. pick up a carquest blue filter, or napa gold part #1085 i think (both wix filters) and then pick up a fram. you'll be able to feel the difference in weight. wix uses synthetic filter media and more of it, finer particulate. fram uses regular old paper media. better filters have heavier springs, more media, and metal bypass valves. there's only about 5 manufacturers for all of them. fram alsmo makes penzoil filters, and stp i think

unfortanetly it is hard to find straight info on oil filters. i've searched for days before, and thats about all i got. there's also virtually no regulations on filters, kinda like bottled water, no real answers. i've been buying mopar filter at walmart, or wix from carquest.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:42 PM   #18
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I used to use Fram's years ago until our '87 Cherokee hammered on start up. The anti-drain back valve would drain the filter back to the pan. I called Fram and they sent me $20 and a couple more filters but it was just a poor design (cheap)

FYI about oils: I'm new to the TJ but I have an '87 Volvo with 507,000 miles and change oil between 3,000 and 3,500 and always use Rotella T 15-40 and either Mann or Mahle filters.

I'm sticking with Rotella T and Mann or Mahle filters for my TJ though I don't plan on driving it 500,000 mi.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:45 PM   #19
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x2 on WIX. I've seen them cut open and the works inside is metal rather than plastic with a real metal spring for tension. I think the longer interval is more a question of if the filter is becoming saturated. My solution is synthetic with a 5,000 mile interval for city driving. I suspect the oil can go much longer than the filter.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:57 PM   #20
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oh yeah, i remember first hand lexus upped their recomended oil change interval, i can't remember exactly what 5,000 or 7,500. they ended up replacing so many motors around 60k they were forced to extend the warranty on them.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:51 PM   #21
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Has anyone use or heard anything about Trufilter oil system, is it worth the money?

TruFilter Oil Systems
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:16 AM   #22
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i have a customer using that. i don't like it. if its the same one i've seen you just drain the thing, and never replace it. kinda hokey to me, and not worth it. this guys oil looks like crap right after its changed.
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Old 12-04-2008, 08:36 AM   #23
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unfortanetly it is hard to find straight info on oil filters. i've searched for days before, and thats about all i got.
Here's about the best information I've found on the various oil filters. It's been around for some time but it has been updated a few times. Fram sued him once so he must have hit a nerve with his comments. Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:16 AM   #24
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IMO unless u run some huge horsepower super engine then you should just use whatever the bottom of the line oil and filter are.......i run napa 10-30 and their basic filter or if im at advanced i buy the basic fram filter......i also feel that sticking to the 3k oil change is important b/c its not like its that hard to change the oil on a wrangler.......the filter sticks out of the side and is very easily reached and there is a bolt that unbolts out of the pan to drain the oil.....unless you are extremely lazy or cheap there is no reason not to change your oil at the recommended intervals.....for the 20 bucks itll cost ya why not just do it.
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:34 PM   #25
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Here's about the best information I've found on the various oil filters. It's been around for some time but it has been updated a few times. Fram sued him once so he must have hit a nerve with his comments. Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

that is about the best info, thats the only site i could find any solid info on quite a few years ago, and it has been updated since, worth the time to look at.
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
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IMO unless u run some huge horsepower super engine then you should just use whatever the bottom of the line oil and filter are.......for the 20 bucks itll cost ya why not just do it.
High horsepower super engine? a crappy filter can leak and fall apart in any oil system, not just super engines. I would not want paper elements, plastic and glue going through my engine but thats just me..
why not do it.. just 20 bucks? you try changing oil outside in the parking lot at -15 degrees F.. see how you like it


Also how could Fram sue that person? Its freedom of speech isnt it? You cannot post any reviews any more?
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Old 12-05-2008, 11:20 AM   #27
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Aw, Gee, there must be some reason why the super high horsepower motors need better oil and filtration.

Super high horsepower motors use higher oil pressures, like 40-60 lbs, unlike stock motors that use, uh, 40-60 lbs.

Super high horsepower motors use oil to reduce friction, unlike stock motors that ---- Hmmm.

Super high horsepower motors use oil to keep metal to metal wear down unlike stock motors that ---- Hmmm.

Super high horsepower motors use oil to carry away heat, unlike stock motors that - Hmmm.

Super high horsepower motors cannot have plastic cardboard or foreign objects running through it's passages, unlike stock motors that - Hmmm.

Super high horsepower motors need to last at least a few seconds to maybe a few hours, unlike stock motors that - Hmmm.

Uh, what engines need trash in their oil?

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