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Old 01-12-2014, 01:31 PM   #1
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Poison Spyder Crushed Corners.

Has anyone used these or know anything about them?
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:23 PM   #2
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Yes , that is one awesome product . I have the half on and a friend just put the ones your showing w fenders and the really do there job . He slid into a big rock climbing a hill and all that happened was a scratch to the fender . Very solid

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Old 01-12-2014, 02:34 PM   #3
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Would I still be able to mount my fender flares on them?
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:52 PM   #4
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Jeep TJ LJ Rear Corner Armor | Jeep TJ LJ Rear Fenders Flares | Poison Spyder Customs

Here are all the poison spyder rear corner armors for the TJ/LJ
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:29 PM   #5
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Yes u can use your stock fenders or you go w the fenders built in ?
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Old 01-13-2014, 01:19 PM   #6
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I bet whoever hit that rock with them has the steel set. The aluminum ones aren't nearly as strong and the steel ones. If you use your jeep a lot on the trails or for rock climbing go with the steel.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:49 PM   #7
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I bet whoever hit that rock with them has the steel set. The aluminum ones aren't nearly as strong and the steel ones. If you use your jeep a lot on the trails or for rock climbing go with the steel.
That's an uninformed opinion. Aluminum corners are used on most builds I see in this day and age. Quality aluminum corners maintain about 70% of the strength of steel while weighing half as much. Savvy Offroad gives a lifetime guarantee on their aluminum corners and their lj has won two consecutive KOH everyman challenges with their aluminum corners.
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Old 07-29-2014, 04:19 PM   #8
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i want some but how hard are they to install
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:17 PM   #9
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I bet whoever hit that rock with them has the steel set. The aluminum ones aren't nearly as strong and the steel ones. If you use your jeep a lot on the trails or for rock climbing go with the steel.
With any real world aluminum armor experience you wouldn't be saying that. Aluminum armor has been where it's at for years now, especially in rock crawling.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:40 AM   #10
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I bet whoever hit that rock with them has the steel set. The aluminum ones aren't nearly as strong and the steel ones. If you use your jeep a lot on the trails or for rock climbing go with the steel.
My savvy aluminum control arms and skid plate disagree


Jerry, did you end up painting your aluminum fenders? If so, what paint did you use and how is it holding up? A friend of mine is having problems getting paint to stick to the aluminum.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:06 AM   #11
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I bet whoever hit that rock with them has the steel set. The aluminum ones aren't nearly as strong and the steel ones. If you use your jeep a lot on the trails or for rock climbing go with the steel.
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That's an uninformed opinion. Aluminum corners are used on most builds I see in this day and age. Quality aluminum corners maintain about 70% of the strength of steel while weighing half as much. Savvy Offroad gives a lifetime guarantee on their aluminum corners and their lj has won two consecutive KOH everyman challenges with their aluminum corners.
So, your saying THE SAME THING HE DID ! ! ! lol

And do tell, exactly how did the aluminum corners contribute to the ability to win? Would they not have won with steel corners then?
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:42 AM   #12
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I hate to sorta de rail the thread, but would a full aluminum underside skid setup take the same abuse that it's steel counterpart will? UCF says they are comparable in strength.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:12 AM   #13
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And do tell, exactly how did the aluminum corners contribute to the ability to win? Would they not have won with steel corners then?
If you were either not so clueless or at the competitive level, you'd understand that weight is a HUGE part of being competitive or not... at competitive levels, carrying extra weight like using steel where aluminum could have been used instead can make you either less competitive or simply non-competitive. Most people would easily understand that... which is why all serious offroad competitors started using aluminum years ago.

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Jerry, did you end up painting your aluminum fenders? If so, what paint did you use and how is it holding up? A friend of mine is having problems getting paint to stick to the aluminum.
No, they're still raw aluminum. Did your friend use self-etching primer on them first? A friend of mine gets his aluminum anodized which holds up, powder coating would be fine too. I've never done any of that to any of my aluminum though.

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I hate to sorta de rail the thread, but would a full aluminum underside skid setup take the same abuse that it's steel counterpart will? UCF says they are comparable in strength.
It's amazing what the aluminum gas tank skidplate I have underneath my TJ has stood up to without even so much as a dent. It has absorbed blows from my rig falling/sliding off rocks that were so hard I was fearing the gas tank was punctured despite the aluminum skidplate. No dents at all.

This first pic is from my previous (stolen) TJ, I have the same skidplate on my current TJ. It's bulletproof and holds up to unbelievable abuse like is in the second photo.
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:48 PM   #14
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I'll still favor steel for a load that really mattered unless weight was critical like an airplane

The steel yeild curve has a lot more area under it

I'll also stick with my steel corners

As stated aluminum will have less strength and more cost so for is guys that aren't able to write of the expense as a business expense or get free or discounted parts for promotion steel is more bang for the buck

If aluminum was so much better we would be seeing aluminum bumpers and roll cages as the norm

Biggest drawback is the lack of much elastic yeild and crack rather than stretch and bend

Granted in steel and aluminum there are lots of variables and aluminum has less corrosion issues but again if aluminum was so superior structurally and economically we would be seeing aluminum f150 truck frames

My miata has aluminum hood, trunk lid and suspension but none are designed to bang into boulders
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Old 07-30-2014, 08:07 PM   #15
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When I was trying to decide between the P.S. flat fenders I was seriously thinking I was going with the alum ones,until one of the guys at P.S. advised against the alum ones.He said they dont advise using the alum if I was going to be making contact with trees or rocks,which I do.I ended up with the steel ones because of his advise.The alum ones are of coarse more expensive so it wasent like he was trying to talk me into something more expensive,he was being honest.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:34 PM   #16
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I'm not quite clueless Jerry, but I'm not racing my Jeep, and neither are you, and I'm betting neither is the OP, but if my friend and Jeep builder was the one peddling the aluminum I would be 100% for it also, you have to parrot the party line to get your freebies and discounts I know, but that doesn't make it valid advice, just a disguised advertisement.

All of the 4 wheeling world isn't decided by or circled around KOH Jerry, just your buddies.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:41 PM   #17
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Not a helpful suggestion but id start making some pop corn. This is getting good
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:58 PM   #18
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I'm not quite clueless Jerry, but I'm not racing my Jeep, and neither are you, and I'm betting neither is the OP, but if my friend and Jeep builder was the one peddling the aluminum I would be 100% for it also, you have to parrot the party line to get your freebies and discounts I know, but that doesn't make it valid advice, just a disguised advertisement.

All of the 4 wheeling world isn't decided by or circled around KOH Jerry, just your buddies.
The reason aluminum helps them win is by reducing weight. Yes we dont race however saving as much weight as possible still aplies to us.

The heavier your rig the harder it is for your tires to grip. The heavier your rig is the harder it is for your tires to pull your jeep up a obstacle.

Also how often do your corners get hit by trees and rocks? Chances are not as often as other places on your jeep, also what is the biggest single piece of armor that you can buy? Thats right the corner armor. It only makes sense to go aluminum to save weight.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:24 AM   #19
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also what is the biggest single piece of armor that you can buy? Thats right the corner armor. It only makes sense to go aluminum to save weight.
Uh... Bumpers?
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:31 AM   #20
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Uh... Bumpers?
Should have said skid plates not armor

However my point still stands. I am replacing my bulky shittybilt rear tire carrier with something much lighter, something less bulky and heavy.
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Old 07-31-2014, 05:55 AM   #21
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The heavier your rig the harder it is for your tires to grip.
Physics says mass = friction and friction = grip, that's why big trucks prefer to be 80k lbs instead of 20k on snow and ice.

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Also how often do your corners get hit by trees and rocks?
How often do my corners brush trees or rock or slide across the landscape? Quite often, more often than any other part of my Jeep aside from the sliders (they hit first, then the corners are next). Do yours not?

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also what is the biggest single piece of armor that you can buy?
The biggest piece of armor you can buy is your bumpers, then your roll cage, then your skid plate, then your sliders, then your corners, But that's going by weight, not cubic area.


Saving weight is a great idea, but to save weight on a Jeep with aluminum is difficult unless your willing to make a serious commitment to replacing everything with aluminum. If that's the case, PM Jerry, he'll be happy to put you in touch with someone who has all the aluminum you can handle, but like race cars, saving weight is seriously expensive, and the weight you save is negated by the big cooler full of ice and beer or soda or what have you and all the other gear you'll carry that you might not need (since most of us don't have a helicopter or a support truck following along and have to carry our own recovery gear and sandwiches).

It's a Jeep, and unless your racing it, weight just isn't a huge factor, not unless your going to drape the whole Jeep in 1/4" steel plate.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:37 PM   #22
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Physics says mass = friction and friction = grip, that's why big trucks prefer to be 80k lbs instead of 20k on snow and ice.
True and not true. kinetic physics says a heavier object is harder to move and therefore requires more to getting it moving. A 80k truck on pavement doesn't have power issues.

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How often do my corners brush trees or rock or slide across the landscape? Quite often, more often than any other part of my Jeep aside from the sliders (they hit first, then the corners are next). Do yours not?
Agreed. As an inexperienced wheeler, I too hit things all the time :P
I would say my rear corners are one thing that I never hit however. Always front end or underneath.

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Saving weight is a great idea, but to save weight on a Jeep with aluminum is difficult unless your willing to make a serious commitment to replacing everything with aluminum. If that's the case, PM Jerry, he'll be happy to put you in touch with someone who has all the aluminum you can handle, but like race cars, saving weight is seriously expensive, and the weight you save is negated by the big cooler full of ice and beer or soda or what have you and all the other gear you'll carry that you might not need (since most of us don't have a helicopter or a support truck following along and have to carry our own recovery gear and sandwiches).

It's a Jeep, and unless your racing it, weight just isn't a huge factor, not unless your going to drape the whole Jeep in 1/4" steel plate.
Weight is always a factor. Handling, gas mileage, traction, center of gravity are all affected by weight. Coming from somebody who went to school for engineering, these old school beliefs that aluminum isnt strong enough or 'if it was so great we would see it everywhere' are just terrible logic. Aluminum is weaker than steel. But not enough to make it a clear loser. It isn't used everywhere because it is expensive. Trucks dont come with Al frames because auto makers don't need to. They aren't building race rigs, they are building pavement pounders. 99% of people who buy a f150 have no desire to pay the extra 5-10k just to have an aluminum frame.
Saying that it is an all or nothing game is unfounded. Every pound makes a difference. Whether you can do only partial or all at once, you are making a difference little by little. Sure the cooler full of beer has it's weight, but if you are going to have it anyway, its a fixed weight, and having Al and a cooler will still put you in lighter.

We all work within our own budgets. Yea, I can't build a $80k TJ. But you can bet your a$$ I will justify the cost if the benefit is there. There is a limit to AL. To build a AL roll cage vs a DOM tube cage would be outrageously expensive. For plating and nonstructural components, not really a limit and not extremely more costly.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:47 PM   #23
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Physics says mass = friction and friction = grip, that's why big trucks prefer to be 80k lbs instead of 20k on snow and ice.
That would be true if offroading only consisted of flat trails. Since we are always climbing and going down things, that equation gets really complicated.

When you are crawling up an obstacle, you are "lifting" the weight of the jeep over a surface, whereas if you are on a flat surface you are pushing the weight forward. Weight plays a big role when you are lifting then when you are pushing.

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How often do my corners brush trees or rock or slide across the landscape? Quite often, more often than any other part of my Jeep aside from the sliders (they hit first, then the corners are next). Do yours not?
My corners brush trees quite a lot, but is that something steel has to protect that aluminum cant? I have yet to have a rock touch my corner and even if rocks did slide across my corners, there is not much force there that aluminum cant easily protect.

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Saving weight is a great idea, but to save weight on a Jeep with aluminum is difficult unless your willing to make a serious commitment to replacing everything with aluminum. If that's the case, PM Jerry, he'll be happy to put you in touch with someone who has all the aluminum you can handle, but like race cars, saving weight is seriously expensive, and the weight you save is negated by the big cooler full of ice and beer or soda or what have you and all the other gear you'll carry that you might not need (since most of us don't have a helicopter or a support truck following along and have to carry our own recovery gear and sandwiches).

It's a Jeep, and unless your racing it, weight just isn't a huge factor, not unless your going to drape the whole Jeep in 1/4" steel plate.
Saving weight with aluminum is not difficult nor expensive, if you look at one piece of armor and look at its steel and aluminum varient, you will see that the price is off usually by 10-20% which in my books is not expensive if you consider how much better your jeep will ride on the street and how much more gas you will save.

Can you imagine having full steel armor on everything and having the extra weight of a cooler and gear?



TLDR: USE ALUMINUM ON BIG PIECES OF ARMOR THAT WILL HAVE LESS CHANCE OF GETTING HIT AND STEEL ON AREAS WITH A LOT OF CONTACT.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:49 PM   #24
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That would be true if offroading only consisted of flat trails. Since we are always climbing and going down things, that equation gets really complicated.

When you are crawling up an obstacle, you are "lifting" the weight of the jeep over a surface, whereas if you are on a flat surface you are pushing the weight forward. Weight plays a big role when you are lifting then when you are pushing.



My corners brush trees quite a lot, but is that something steel has to protect that aluminum cant? I have yet to have a rock touch my corner and even if rocks did slide across my corners, there is not much force there that aluminum cant easily protect.



Saving weight with aluminum is not difficult nor expensive, if you look at one piece of armor and look at its steel and aluminum varient, you will see that the price is off usually by 10-20% which in my books is not expensive if you consider how much better your jeep will ride on the street and how much more gas you will save.

Can you imagine haveing full steel armor on everything and having the extra weight of a cool and gear?
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:53 PM   #25
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Thats funny you wrote your post while I was writing mine!
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:09 PM   #26
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since my rear corners also provide hinge and latch for my rear carrier I'll stick with steel and the reason cost ain't a big different is also why weight ain't much different but strength still is (they just don't contain all that much metal volume}

Then we got the issue of corrosion between a non ferrous metal and a ferrous one including FASTENERS

if all you want is half ass armor for trees limbs maybe you could save weight dollars and CG but not having any armor
If you want functional armor soft aluminum ain't the ticket but if its for pretty sure aluminum shines up real nice till it gets scratched
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:18 PM   #27
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since my rear corners also provide hinge and latch for my rear carrier I'll stick with steel and the reason cost ain't a big different is also why weight ain't much different but strength still is (they just don't contain all that much metal volume}

Then we got the issue of corrosion between a non ferrous metal and a ferrous one including FASTENERS

if all you want is half ass armor for trees limbs maybe you could save weight dollars and CG but not having any armor
If you want functional armor soft aluminum ain't the ticket but if its for pretty sure aluminum shines up real nice till it gets scratched
half ass soft armor? you apparently paid no attention to Jerry's real world Al armor example or Savvy's or anyone else that actually does run it then. lol. Think what you want, but your knowledge of Aluminum being weak and delicate is not based on any engineering application. Our transmissions are aluminum and they take huge amounts of torque. A jet may not be hitting trees, but I bet you my jeep a jet going 400-1000mph is experiencing more force on its aluminum than you could dream about

The only real logical argument against aluminum should be over cost not strength
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:21 PM   #28
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Here are two equations that anyone can use in order to calculate the weight of steel and aluminum. The two equations also have been setup to show us the weight difference between 1/8" thick, 12"x12" (Square Foot) plate of steel and aluminum.

Steel:

Thickness (.125) x Side (12") x Side (12") x Weight/Cubic/In (.284) = 5.112 lbs

Aluminum 6061:

Thickness (.125) x Side (12") x Side (12") x Weight/Cubic/In (.097) = 1.746 lbs

Now lets take this equation and apply it to a pair of poison spyder rear corner armor. Both the aluminum and steel version both use 3/16" plate. I will compare it to the approximate dimensions of my LJs corners.

Steel:
Thickness (.1875) x Square Inch (662") x Weight/Cubic/In (.284) = (35.251 LB) x 2 Corners = 70.503 LB

Aluminum 6061:
Thickness (.1875) x Square Inch (662") x Weight/Cubic/In (.097) = (12.04 LB) x 2 Corners = 24.08 lbs


I would like to point out that I got my dimensions from using a ruler on the corner of my jeep and subtracting the wheel well area. So that means the numbers are approximate but may only be off by 5-10%.


I hope someone reading this in the future will find this helpful.
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:59 PM   #29
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Yes I got my under graduate degree in mechanical engineering so ain't impressed by your brags ( Tau Beta Pi. , Pi Tau Sigma) and BFD it is only under graduate

Yes where weight is a issue aluminum has a place
Yes f150 went to some aluminum body
But where strength and economy matters like a frame steel was and is king

But hey whatever floats your boat
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Old 07-31-2014, 05:00 PM   #30
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It's Wrangler Forum's very own Funtech #1. Fun!

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/jf...nding-1913778/

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