Power steering upgrade - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 07-13-2013, 03:04 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
Fishnjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 141
Power steering upgrade

My power steering pump is going bad and the steering box is leaking. I'm thinking about going with AGR super pump and box. Right now I only have 31's, I plan on going with 33's eventually (few years). Is AGR worth the price? Or should I go with stock replacements? Thanks!

__________________
"Get a little mud on the tires" (Brad Paisley)
Fishnjeep is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-13-2013, 05:21 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
ReconJack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 73
As with most parts you get what you pay for, I've ran stock gear box and pump in many YJs and TJs with 33s and 35s, no issues with PROPER MAINTENANCE. You may consider getting a gear box bracket, I got mine from rusty's offroad for my TJ, it helps keep things where they need to be and relieve stress on the box itself when turning from a standstill. As always it helps to drive easy, if you're constantly tearin' ass or making hard sharp turns / offroading then I suppose it's worth the money. Depends how deep your pockets are.

ReconJack is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-13-2013, 05:35 PM   #3
NJO
Jeeper
 
NJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,388
Stick with a stock one.
NJO is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-13-2013, 11:44 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
Fishnjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 141
Thanks for the help, I'm leaning towards stock, it's hard to justify the price for AGR.
__________________
"Get a little mud on the tires" (Brad Paisley)
Fishnjeep is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 08:58 AM   #5
NJO
Jeeper
 
NJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishnjeep View Post
Thanks for the help, I'm leaning towards stock, it's hard to justify the price for AGR.
There is no point upgrading the ps pimp or the added expense for 33's........even for 35's its a questionable move.......but what you can do with the money saved that is worthwhile....is to upgrade to the zj tierod and pick up a steering box brace (very worthwhile) and a steeringbox skid.....cheap upgrades that are worth the small time , effort and money.
NJO is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 09:11 AM   #6
Jeeper
 
LiftedTj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toledo, Oh (Where Jeeps are born THEN raised)
Posts: 440
Go with a 1998 Dodge Durango v8 non snow plow gearbox. Stronger than stock and moves my 33s easier
__________________
'Cuz im Mr. OOGIE BOOGIE and you ain't going NO WHERE.
LiftedTj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 09:19 AM   #7
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Westchester, IL
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiftedTj View Post
Go with a 1998 Dodge Durango v8 non snow plow gearbox. Stronger than stock and moves my 33s easier
this, for your jeep, its a direct bolt in and should have been what was installed from the factory
Ironhead Jed is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 10:14 AM   #8
NJO
Jeeper
 
NJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiftedTj View Post
Go with a 1998 Dodge Durango v8 non snow plow gearbox. Stronger than stock and moves my 33s easier
This isn't completely accurate, and the job can be a royal PIA if the OP has an 03' or newer TJ since you have to drill and sleeve a new mounting hole and swap over steering components from an 02' and earlier TJ.

If the OP does have an 02' or earlier, then yes it pretty much is a direct bolt-in swap, but its not technically stronger at all, just has a quicker ratio. Is that something really needed or wanted on a SWB TJ that already has twitchy steering?
NJO is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 10:27 AM   #9
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJO View Post
This isn't completely accurate, and the job can be a royal PIA if the OP has an 03' or newer TJ since you have to drill and sleeve a new mounting hole and swap over steering components from an 02' and earlier TJ.

If the OP does have an 02' or earlier, then yes it pretty much is a direct bolt-in swap, but its not technically stronger at all, just has a quicker ratio. Is that something really needed or wanted on a SWB TJ that already has twitchy steering?

It's not really subjective. The piston in the Durango steering gear is larger than the smaller TJ Saginaw box. That means that due to simple hydraulic principles that for a given input pressure, the gear is more powerful.

Having run the variable faster ratio on my wife's TJ for many years, the "twitchiness" is readily adapted to and overcome in about the first few blocks of driving it. I actually thought it was about the perfect gear for a TJ due to how nicely the variable ratio backed off on the highway and then kicked right in at slow speeds in parking lots and similar.

I don't recommend the gear because it's still a bushing supported sector shaft and a good one is almost as much as something from PSC or similar, but it can be a nice set-up done correctly.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 10:44 AM   #10
NJO
Jeeper
 
NJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
It's not really subjective. The piston in the Durango steering gear is larger than the smaller TJ Saginaw box. That means that due to simple hydraulic principles that for a given input pressure, the gear is more powerful.

Having run the variable faster ratio on my wife's TJ for many years, the "twitchiness" is readily adapted to and overcome in about the first few blocks of driving it. I actually thought it was about the perfect gear for a TJ due to how nicely the variable ratio backed off on the highway and then kicked right in at slow speeds in parking lots and similar.

I don't recommend the gear because it's still a bushing supported sector shaft and a good one is almost as much as something from PSC or similar, but it can be a nice set-up done correctly.
Let me clarify a bit then.

A. The Durango and TJ steering boxes have basically the same casting etc.......as stated mechanically speaking the Durango steering box isn't any stronger.

B. Turn to turn a TJ steering box is about 3.5 turns. The Durango steering box will be just under 3. Hence why I mentioned the twitchiness in the steering. The 2 TJ's I previously owned I hated on the highway. I personally got used to it, but never liked it. I do not see how the Durango will help in this regard.

C. Yes the bore/piston is a bit bigger.

But again if the OP has an 03' or newer TJ the swap is not worth it. If he has an 02' or earlier I still don't think the swap is worth it especially riding on 31's currently and waiting a few years before 33's.
NJO is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 10:58 AM   #11
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Westchester, IL
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJO View Post
But again if the OP has an 03' or newer TJ the swap is not worth it. If he has an 02' or earlier I still don't think the swap is worth it especially riding on 31's currently and waiting a few years before 33's.
according to the op's garage, he has a 2000


Blaine, why dont you like the durango gear? any other options before going psc?

I remember people adapting an astro van gear, but dont remember any advantages over the durango gear
Ironhead Jed is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 11:04 AM   #12
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJO View Post
Let me clarify a bit then.

A. The Durango and TJ steering boxes have basically the same casting etc.......as stated mechanically speaking the Durango steering box isn't any stronger.
No they don't. The Durango is a larger casting with a larger end cap for the larger bore. It's considered by the rebuilders as a big bore box and the TJ is a small bore box.

Quote:
B. Turn to turn a TJ steering box is about 3.5 turns. The Durango steering box will be just under 3. Hence why I mentioned the twitchiness in the steering. The 2 TJ's I previously owned I hated on the highway. I personally got used to it, but never liked it. I do not see how the Durango will help in this regard.
The rebuilder did you no favors then. The Durango boxes I've used are the exact opposite but they are rebuilt by Durex at my direction and the variable ratio was quite distinct as in it reverted to the heavier feel that makes highway driving a pleasure.

Quote:
C. Yes the bore/piston is a bit bigger.
And since piston area is what determines output pressure for a given input pressure, the box is capable of being more powerful. Mechanically, the weak point of both is still the same which is the diameter of the splined section into the pitman arm.

Quote:
But again if the OP has an 03' or newer TJ the swap is not worth it. If he has an 02' or earlier I still don't think the swap is worth it especially riding on 31's currently and waiting a few years before 33's.
Depends on his mechanical ability. Getting rid of the POS ZF steering gear in favor of almost any size Saginaw is never a bad thing. I don't know that I would do it for 31/33's but it isn't that hard to do.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 11:09 AM   #13
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhead Jed View Post
according to the op's garage, he has a 2000


Blaine, why dont you like the durango gear? any other options before going psc?

I remember people adapting an astro van gear, but dont remember any advantages over the durango gear
I don't dislike the Durango gear, it's just that by the time you convert them to be a good product, they are expensive for what they are.

I had Durex build a couple and because they are not stupid parts store that will take anything as a core, I had to come up with cores to get rebuilt. Take the average 200-250 rebuild cost and add a 100 dollar core to it and it's no longer pleasant to spend that and still have a bushing gear box. If I get up into the 4-500 dollar range for a gear, it will have needle bearings on the sector shaft.

But, it made for a very nice steering gear.

I'm actually working on an option right now but am just in the beginning phases of acquisition and testing of a new box.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 11:12 AM   #14
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Westchester, IL
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
I don't dislike the Durango gear, it's just that by the time you convert them to be a good product, they are expensive for what they are.

I had Durex build a couple and because they are not stupid parts store that will take anything as a core, I had to come up with cores to get rebuilt. Take the average 200-250 rebuild cost and add a 100 dollar core to it and it's no longer pleasant to spend that and still have a bushing gear box. If I get up into the 4-500 dollar range for a gear, it will have needle bearings on the sector shaft.

But, it made for a very nice steering gear.

I'm actually working on an option right now but am just in the beginning phases of acquisition and testing of a new box.
thanks for the info, I was looking at going the Durango route when mine goes, but will keep reading and researching other options
Ironhead Jed is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 11:25 AM   #15
NJO
Jeeper
 
NJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
No they don't. The Durango is a larger casting with a larger end cap for the larger bore. It's considered by the rebuilders as a big bore box and the TJ is a small bore box.



The rebuilder did you no favors then. The Durango boxes I've used are the exact opposite but they are rebuilt by Durex at my direction and the variable ratio was quite distinct as in it reverted to the heavier feel that makes highway driving a pleasure.



And since piston area is what determines output pressure for a given input pressure, the box is capable of being more powerful. Mechanically, the weak point of both is still the same which is the diameter of the splined section into the pitman arm.



Depends on his mechanical ability. Getting rid of the POS ZF steering gear in favor of almost any size Saginaw is never a bad thing. I don't know that I would do it for 31/33's but it isn't that hard to do.
The casting is larger with a larger endcap for the bore, but the casting thickness is the same. And when you combine that with the output spline shaft its no stronger in reality.

Which is why I think that the swap is a very marginal one in terms of being "worth it" for the OP, especially on 31's currently and waiting for 33's in a few years.

I run 33's and occasionally 35's(Although both 33's and 35's are narrow 10.5 units), and the stock box works great.
NJO is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 11:39 AM   #16
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 351
I did the Durango swap and I think it is a great modification.

If I were to do it again I would buy used, and commit to doing it again if it turned out to be a bad one. It isn't that difficult.
00silverTJ is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 11:41 AM   #17
Sponsoring Vendor

WF Supporting Member
 
Black Magic Brakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJO View Post
The casting is larger with a larger endcap for the bore, but the casting thickness is the same. And when you combine that with the output spline shaft its no stronger in reality.
That's like saying all rims are the same because they will bolt up to your unitbearings. I think you confused my statement of them being more powerful with being stronger.

Quote:
Which is why I think that the swap is a very marginal one in terms of being "worth it" for the OP, especially on 31's currently and waiting for 33's in a few years.

I run 33's and occasionally 35's(Although both 33's and 35's are narrow 10.5 units), and the stock box works great.
The stock box is what it is. They wear quickly due to being a bushing box, they are underpowered, but they are readily available and easy to acquire.

I wish PSC still supported them. I have about 6 or 7 cores I could send in and get converted to be a lot better.
__________________
I am Savvy, I am the brake Wizard.
http://blackmagicbrakes.com
Black Magic Brakes is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-14-2013, 11:55 AM   #18
NJO
Jeeper
 
NJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes View Post
That's like saying all rims are the same because they will bolt up to your unitbearings. I think you confused my statement of them being more powerful with being stronger.



The stock box is what it is. They wear quickly due to being a bushing box, they are underpowered, but they are readily available and easy to acquire.

I wish PSC still supported them. I have about 6 or 7 cores I could send in and get converted to be a lot better.
Yep, I think there was confusion......my original statement was in regards to what LiftedTJ said........the box being STRONGER. Its not.

I agree also with the stock box being what it is.

But I believe wear and tear on the box can be greatly reduced with a cheap steering box brace from a company like M.O.R.E. I am sure you have seen how the stock box can significantly flex visually when your trying to steer through obstacles(where say a tire is stuck/pinned between 2 obstacles).......I am sure this alone puts significant wear and tear on the box components since its only bolted to the frame from one side. Adding a brace and reducing the flex I'm sure takes a lot of the wear and tear off the internal components. I think for folks running 31's, 33's and many 35" setups its a fine solution. As you stated, OEM replacements are plentiful and cheap.

As for being underpowered, even on my 35" Interco SSR's I never felt like the steering was lacking though through the streets or the mud and rocks. Again though, probably a lot of it has to do with the fact I stick with narrower 10.5" wide tires, but the fluid on occasion has gotten pretty darn warm, and I may contemplate doing a cooler for the setup.

NJO is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC