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Old 09-08-2012, 02:48 PM   #1
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Real hard start after putting gas in

Everytime I fill up (regardless of what gas station), it has a real hard time starting after. It takes a while crank, and then once it fires, it idles rough and the rpms keep dipping and it almost dies. After I rev it up a few times, it goes back to normal idle, though a little rough. Then once I start going, it runs fine and has no problems until the next time I fill up. Though very occasionally it has to crank longer than usual to start, but then no problems after that.

Any ideas?

Thanks

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Old 09-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #2
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And I get a check engine light for a small evap leak after I fill up.

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Old 09-15-2012, 09:25 PM   #3
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Maybe the evap canister is getting liquid and over richening the engine when the purge valve opens. Are you squeezing in all the gas you can till the filler neck is full? Cap could be bad, but that doesn't make it hard start AFAIK. I never had a hard start with a bad cap anyway.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:26 PM   #4
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Maybe the evap canister is getting liquid and over richening the engine. Cap could be bad, but that doesn't ma
The cap was just replaced... So you're saying the evap canister may need replacing? I just don't understand why there is only a problem after putting gas in
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:33 PM   #5
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IIRC, there is a separator valve in the line to the evap canister. If gas get in the canister, it raises hell with the mixture and often throws a code. I don't have the manual so I can't look it up for ya. I am looking to buy a factory service manual but haven't done so yet. In a pinch, you could sign up at AllData for a week's worth and get specific info if no one here can get a diagram of the system and make a guess as to what part may have gone bad.

The line to the evap is off the top of the filler neck, or at least a high spot off the tank usually so it is supposed to only pass fuel vapor. When you fill the tank, gas gets closer to the opening to the evap vapor line.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:35 PM   #6
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I have a pdf of the FSM, just not sure what to look for
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:40 PM   #7
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(Edited my post as to why filling the tank may trigger it.)

Cool. Somewhere in the FSM should be a mechanical description and parts layout of the EVAP emissions system where the line comes from the tank, through a check valve or whatever, and to the canister. Then there is a purge valve to the canister to the intake manifold somewhere that opens at the appropriate time, like off idle when the engine is warm, (or like that) to suck the collected fumes out of the charcoal in the EVAP and burn them.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:53 PM   #8
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I think I found it. I'm gonna try and post it up here, but idk if it'll work

Fig. 13 ORVR VAPOR LINE
1 - EVAP CANISTER 2 - NVLD FILTER
3 - NVLD PUMP
4 - VAPOR LINES
5 - FLOW VALVE
6 - TOP OF FUEL TANK)
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:08 PM   #9
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There is a whole lot of info in the emissions control section of the FSM. Idk what's relavent and what's not.

I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be looking for, or hoping to gain from looking at the diagrams.

And I just noticed your edited post about filling up and the gas cap. I do fill it up all the way every time, but I can try it without filling all the way up.

The twist to the story is my inspection expired in August, and here in NY, you cannot pass with a check engine light. After replacing the fuel pump a while ago, I got the check engine light with a small and large evap leak. I procrastinated, and ended up running out of time to diagnose and fix it. So I had to have my mechanic do it since it was the end of August. They found a vent hose loose off the fuel tank, which was now clogged with mud. So they fixed that. Of course, they then can't give me the inspection sticker until I've driven for a while and let all the sensors go through their cycles. So after 2 days, my light came back on. This time they realized the gas cap was bad. Then about 6 days later, it came on again. I cleared it, drove about 130 miles, and then went back, but the evap and O2 sensor (pump?) sensors were not ready. I figured out I think, that the code was only coming on now after filling up. So, after running it almost dry and bringing it to them, and still not passing, I filled up today, and then immediatly reset the computer. So I'm gonna drive for as long as I can, and then go back. Otherwise I'll actually have to fix the problem lol. But I really don't want to have to pay labor to get it fixed, I'd rather do it myself
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:56 PM   #10
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I doubt this will help but it may let you know that it probably does have something to do with the EVAP leak. I recently had a 00 Focus with the exact same problem you are having. When I filled up the rps would drop, sometimes it would die, and it would ride rough for a few miles then it would be fine. It only happened after i fueled up. Anyways, my check engine light was on for an EVAP leak also. The good news for me is I never fixed it, I sold it, and bought my TJ.
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:25 AM   #11
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I doubt this will help but it may let you know that it probably does have something to do with the EVAP leak. I recently had a 00 Focus with the exact same problem you are having. When I filled up the rps would drop, sometimes it would die, and it would ride rough for a few miles then it would be fine. It only happened after i fueled up. Anyways, my check engine light was on for an EVAP leak also. The good news for me is I never fixed it, I sold it, and bought my TJ.
I got all excited, b/c I thought you were gonna tell me how you fixed it. lol

My buddy is a mechanic at a Jeep dealership, and after explaining it to him, he also thought they were related. Said something about the rollover valve. He's hard to get in touch with, which is why I'm posting here haha
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:54 AM   #12
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What does the jeep do when you put a few gallons in it (not filling it up) ?
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:00 AM   #13
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What does the jeep do when you put a few gallons in it (not filling it up) ?
Haven't tried that yet. def will soon tho
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:10 AM   #14
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In the pic you posted, the under the hood stuff where parts 1,2 and 3 are..

Look for dry rot or cracks on them hoses.

Had you done, any mods (within months) to the jeep before this started or was it totally out of the blue?
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:35 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 97wranglerTJ View Post
In the pic you posted, the under the hood stuff where parts 1,2 and 3 are..

Look for dry rot or cracks on them hoses.

Had you done, any mods (within months) to the jeep before this started or was it totally out of the blue?
It was totally out of the blue.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:37 PM   #16
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I'm guessing the flow valve on the tank is not working right, but yeah, give it a good visual inspection for all that like he said. Plugged lines can goof it up to.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:02 PM   #17
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I'm guessing the flow valve on the tank is not working right, but yeah, give it a good visual inspection for all that like he said. Plugged lines can goof it up to.
I feel like I read somewhere that the flow valve is not replaceable. i.e I'd have to replace the whole tank.
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:12 PM   #18
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I gave it a visual inspection, and didn't see anything that looked wrong. And also, I put gas in without filling all the way up today, and it did the same thing when I started it.
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:16 PM   #19
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I feel like I read somewhere that the flow valve is not replaceable. i.e I'd have to replace the whole tank.
The valve is in the fuel pressure regulator, that sits on top of the fuel pump. The regulator is replaceable, you have to drop the tank to do it.
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:18 PM   #20
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The valve is in the fuel pressure regulator, that sits on top of the fuel pump. The regulator is replaceable, you have to drop the tank to do it.
Okay cool. But I have no idea if that's what the problem is. How can I possibly figure it out?
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Old 09-22-2012, 02:18 PM   #21
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I have an idea! I can just move to like Maine, and then pass inspection without worrying about it
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:37 PM   #22
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So I inspected the hoses around what I am assuming is my evap canister or pump or something (see pictures) and the hoses looked okay, but I noticed when the engine is running, there is a hissing sound coming from that object in the pictures. It sounds like air is leaking out, but I couldn't locate any leaks. Are you supposed to hear a noise from it? Also can someone please verify what this thing is?



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Old 09-22-2012, 04:45 PM   #23
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So I inspected the hoses around what I am assuming is my evap canister or pump or something (see pictures) and the hoses looked okay, but I noticed when the engine is running, there is a hissing sound coming from that object in the pictures. It sounds like air is leaking out, but I couldn't locate any leaks. Are you supposed to hear a noise from it? Also can someone please verify what this thing is?
Actually, I just looked at the FSM again, and it appears to be the Evap/Purge Solenoid.

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