Somebody help!! - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 02-02-2013, 04:31 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28
Exclamation Somebody help!!

I am desperately trying to diagnose my 2002 TJ 4.0L 6 cyl 5 speed manuel. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
Symptoms:
Extremely rough idle, bouncing RPMs, miss firing terribly, and the engine cuts off. Will not run for more than a minute before dying. The check engine light is on but i dont have a system to run the codes and see whats up.
Tried fixes:
Disconnecting the battery and replaced the crank shaft positioning sensor thus far with no luck. I have done research and have seen a wide variety of fixes people have said fixed there jeeps with similar symptoms. Again any help will be much appreciated.

__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 04:42 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
Kevbz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 1,637
With out throwing money at it try checking the plugs, coil packs. Look for a vacuum leak at the throttle, take the intake tube off to look at the throttle butterfly and see how dirty it is. The Idle air controller is in there also, look for a dirty IAC if all the symptoms are at idle. Those symptoms can be air,fuel or spark related so you have to systematically eliminate them one by one.

__________________
Per Mare, Per Terram...Semper Fidelis
Kevbz is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
andrew127's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Peterborough ON Canada
Posts: 208
Not too sure about the 2002s, are they coil packs or a distributor on them? If they have a distributor it may have jumped a tooth off the cam gear and be pre igniting. I would recommend finding a friend or a parts store who has a scanner and finding out the code. That might clear up whats wrong right away. Be a lot easier than just throwing parts at it and finding a sensor gone or something.
__________________
"Good work isnt cheap... Cheap work isnt good"
andrew127 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 05:27 PM   #4
jkp
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 466
You can read the codes by turning the key on off on off on, don't start. The codes display in the odometer.
__________________
'92 Islander
'06 Rubicon
jkp is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 07:44 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28
How do you read the codes from your odometer?
__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 07:49 PM   #6
Krew Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Turbostixxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 20,170
Sounds like a TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) to me...
__________________
_______
/l
,[____],
l---L -OlllllllO-
()_) ()_)--o-)_)

1997 Wrangler SE:4" Lift; 33x11x16; Q9000 Winch
Turbostixxx is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 07:51 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
Dammit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG.dreams View Post
How do you read the codes from your odometer?
Once you've done the on off on off on thing, let it sit there (engine not started) and the codes should show up as numbers in the odometer box (digital). The old Dodges would flash the check engine light to coincide with the codes.

The old ones always started with 12 (begin test) and ended with 55 (end test), but the TJ's may be on a new system (obdii, iii or ???), so you might see 5-didgit codes. Be ready to write them down.

Once you get the codes, google em with your year, make, model.

Sounds like a bad MAF sensor or weak/inoperative EGR, but don't quote me on that.

Let us know what you come up with...
__________________
2010 Wrangler 2DR Black 6spd HT
15x8 TKO's w/33-12.5-15 Duratracs
Older Jeeps - Gone and missed:
83 Scrambler Mail truck - 258/auto - RH drive - best $500 I ever spent (wish I hadn't sold it)
78 CJ-7 with 350/400 - Axle eater - Gone
Dammit is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 07:57 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
99tj707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbostixxx
sounds like a tps (throttle position sensor) to me...
x2
99tj707 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 07:58 PM   #9
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
jp2611's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Wayne IN
Posts: 6,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dammit View Post
Once you've done the on off on off on thing, let it sit there (engine not started) and the codes should show up as numbers in the odometer box (digital). The old Dodges would flash the check engine light to coincide with the codes.

The old ones always started with 12 (begin test) and ended with 55 (end test), but the TJ's may be on a new system (obdii, iii or ???), so you might see 5-didgit codes. Be ready to write them down.

Once you get the codes, google em with your year, make, model.

Sounds like a bad MAF sensor or weak/inoperative EGR, but don't quote me on that.

Let us know what you come up with...
Would agree with MAF...TJ's don't have an EGR it is just a hollow plastic tube...all though it could be plugged I guess.....
jp2611 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 07:59 PM   #10
Krew Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Turbostixxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 20,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp2611 View Post
Would agree with MAF...TJ's don't have an EGR it is just a hollow plastic tube...all though it could be plugged I guess.....
The plastic tube is the PCV Valve, that isn't causing his issue, the jumpy idle leads me to believe it is the TPS, I bought a Durango for 2500 under blue book because of a TPS, owner thought it was a fuel issue so sold it to me for cheap....$30 later it was an AWESOME running truck
__________________
_______
/l
,[____],
l---L -OlllllllO-
()_) ()_)--o-)_)

1997 Wrangler SE:4" Lift; 33x11x16; Q9000 Winch
Turbostixxx is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:26 PM   #11
jkp
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG.dreams View Post
How do you read the codes from your odometer?
Key in ignition, turn it ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON quickly. Leave it in the ON position, but do not start. Codes are displayed in the odo one at a time. Write the number down and look up online.
__________________
'92 Islander
'06 Rubicon
jkp is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:28 PM   #12
jkp
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 466
There's no MAF on the 4.0.
__________________
'92 Islander
'06 Rubicon
jkp is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:32 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
Patrick H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Northern NM
Posts: 3,136
As stated, there is no MAF or EGR.
OP, did this happen all of the sudden? Or did it slowly get worse over time?
Patrick H is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:39 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28
It happened praticaly over night. I just cleaned the idle air control but it hasnt fixed a thing. Moving on to replace the tps.
__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:41 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28
And the symptoms arent just at idle theyre when driving as well (will not make it out of first without dying)
__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:42 PM   #16
Jeeper
 
Patrick H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Northern NM
Posts: 3,136
Have you checked for (large) vacuum leaks?
Patrick H is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:46 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
Virus692's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 559
Send a message via AIM to Virus692 Send a message via Yahoo to Virus692
could this be bad fuel? water in fuel or a need to replace fuel filter?
Virus692 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 08:49 PM   #18
Jeeper
 
Patrick H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Northern NM
Posts: 3,136
Fuel filter, no. It's considered "non-serviceable", and even if it was plugged, the symptoms of fuel starvation don't match the symptoms described. Bad fuel is a possibility, although unlikely I'd think.
Patrick H is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 09:01 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28
After letting the jeep sit itll start and run for a minute then die but reattempts to start and it wont even turn over.

just ran the codes and came up with:
0340
0320
0353
0352
0351
__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 09:03 PM   #20
Jeeper
 
Patrick H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Northern NM
Posts: 3,136
So it doesn't even turn over after it dies? As in, the starter isn't turning the engine?
Patrick H is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 09:34 PM   #21
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
HarryJeepGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,115
P0320 (M) No RPM Signal to PCM (Crankshaft Position Sensor Signal to JTEC) A CKP signal has not been detected at the PCM.
P0325 Knock Sensor #1 Circuit Knock sensor (#1) signal above or below minimum acceptable threshold voltage at particular engine speed.
P0330 Knock Sensor #2 Circuit Knock sensor (#2) signal above or below minimum acceptable threshold voltage at particular engine speed.
P0336 (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal Problem with voltage signal from CKP.
P0340 (M) No Cam Signal At PCM No fuel sync.
P0341 (M) Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Signal Problem with voltage signal from CMP.
P0350 Ignition Coil Draws Too Much Current A coil (1-5) is drawing too much current.
P0351 (M) Ignition Coil # 1 Primary Circuit Peak primary circuit current not achieved with maximum dwell time.
P0352 (M) Ignition Coil # 2 Primary Circuit Peak primary circuit current not achieved with maximum dwell time.
P0353 (M) Ignition Coil # 3 Primary Circuit Peak primary circuit current not achieved with maximum dwell time.
HarryJeepGuy is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #22
Jeeper
 
Geno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryJeepGuy View Post
P0320 (M) No RPM Signal to PCM (Crankshaft Position Sensor Signal to JTEC) A CKP signal has not been detected at the PCM.
P0325 Knock Sensor #1 Circuit Knock sensor (#1) signal above or below minimum acceptable threshold voltage at particular engine speed.
P0330 Knock Sensor #2 Circuit Knock sensor (#2) signal above or below minimum acceptable threshold voltage at particular engine speed.
P0336 (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal Problem with voltage signal from CKP.
P0340 (M) No Cam Signal At PCM No fuel sync.
P0341 (M) Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Signal Problem with voltage signal from CMP.
P0350 Ignition Coil Draws Too Much Current A coil (1-5) is drawing too much current.
P0351 (M) Ignition Coil # 1 Primary Circuit Peak primary circuit current not achieved with maximum dwell time.
P0352 (M) Ignition Coil # 2 Primary Circuit Peak primary circuit current not achieved with maximum dwell time.
P0353 (M) Ignition Coil # 3 Primary Circuit Peak primary circuit current not achieved with maximum dwell time.

Your good!
Geno is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 10:00 PM   #23
Jeeper
 
Dammit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26
Images: 1
Hmm, so is the misfiring causing the knock? Or is a bad knock sensor retarding the timing so bad that it's misfiring? I've only seen knock sensors NOT retard the timing, allowing the knock to continue, when they quit working. Pretty sure cam and/or crank sensor will kill the ignition if they malfunction so....?

I would also believe bad wires before I'd believe two knock sensors are gone at once (unless you bashed something on your motor and broke them both).

Silly questions: Have you done a tune-up recently? Any chance that maybe a couple of your plug wires are routed incorrectly? Broken? Came loose from vibration? Been mudding or playing in the water? Anything else that could cause a break in the ignition signal? Again, one coil is understandable, but three at the same time...?

If nothing stands out just yet, then try this: Disconnect your battery and let it sit for twenty minutes or so. Let the computer erase all codes (although you may get a battery disconnect code).

Don't start the engine, just do the diagnostic, see what codes you come up with. My money says one of those is going to be the root cause of the rest.
__________________
2010 Wrangler 2DR Black 6spd HT
15x8 TKO's w/33-12.5-15 Duratracs
Older Jeeps - Gone and missed:
83 Scrambler Mail truck - 258/auto - RH drive - best $500 I ever spent (wish I hadn't sold it)
78 CJ-7 with 350/400 - Axle eater - Gone
Dammit is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 10:30 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28

Here's the problem on the dash. I haven't recently had it tuned up but it's also not do for it for awhile. I honestly don't know what to do now. After cleaning the idle air sensor and CKS sensor I'm at a loss. I guess the tps sensor is the next thing?
__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 10:34 PM   #25
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
HarryJeepGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,115
Coil rail maybe. You have a friend with one you could borrow before you buy one? Or maybe buy one then return it if it's not the fix. Not a hard job.
HarryJeepGuy is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 11:35 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 39
knock sensors last of your worry...could be the coils...possibly an injector, possibly a MAF should really bring it to dealer for 1.0hr diagnosis to check readings before you just keep throwing money into it. i know im a mechanic at a dealership myself, not jeep but Infiniti, same concept tho
TCogley is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-02-2013, 11:53 PM   #27
Krew Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Turbostixxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 20,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCogley View Post
knock sensors last of your worry...could be the coils...possibly an injector, possibly a MAF should really bring it to dealer for 1.0hr diagnosis to check readings before you just keep throwing money into it. i know im a mechanic at a dealership myself, not jeep but Infiniti, same concept tho
Or run the codes, through the dash like we said, let us know them, and be able to narrow it down, or go to an autoparts store, and by the scanner for $50....i now own one, its easier
__________________
_______
/l
,[____],
l---L -OlllllllO-
()_) ()_)--o-)_)

1997 Wrangler SE:4" Lift; 33x11x16; Q9000 Winch
Turbostixxx is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-03-2013, 06:00 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28
The only code the pcm is giving now is 0340. Ruled out throttle position sensor and CKS sensor
__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-03-2013, 06:16 PM   #29
Krew Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Turbostixxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 20,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG.dreams View Post
The only code the pcm is giving now is 0340. Ruled out throttle position sensor and CKS sensor
Thats a no cam signal code...
__________________
_______
/l
,[____],
l---L -OlllllllO-
()_) ()_)--o-)_)

1997 Wrangler SE:4" Lift; 33x11x16; Q9000 Winch
Turbostixxx is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-03-2013, 06:27 PM   #30
Jeeper
 
BIG.dreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Currently stationed in Idaho.
Posts: 28
So what would my next step be?
At this point do you think it would be the coil pack?

__________________
4" ProComp Lift, 33" Bf Goodrich Mud Terrain tires, Body Armor front and rear bumpers, warn winch.
BIG.dreams is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Download our Mobile App

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC