steering problems - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 10-17-2007, 03:27 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
chrsr3089's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: sacramento ca
Posts: 57
steering problems

my steering on my 2002 tj is very sloppy and has alot of play in it. it has a 4 inch lift with 33's. its gotten worse and worse every time i go wheeling.everytime i hit a bump the wheel shakes alot also. what should i do to fix this? a new stabilizer shock? a hd steering system like the currie enterprise one? any advice wouled be great thanks.

chrsr3089 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:36 PM   #2
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
How about more information on your lift other than just a 4" with 33s?

There are tons of possible problems that can cause your sloppy steering.

Better yet would be a picture of your front suspension setup.

MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:39 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
chrsr3089's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: sacramento ca
Posts: 57
its a 4 inch by rough country. and it has a drop pitman arm. everything else is stock on the steeing.
chrsr3089 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:42 PM   #4
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsr3089 View Post
its a 4 inch by rough country. and it has a drop pitman arm. everything else is stock on the steeing.
there is all 3 of your problems. You do not need a dropped pitman arm and you do not need a stock track bar. You should install the stock pitman arm and a better adjustable track bar. Then have your jeep aligned and be vibe, wobble, skid mark free!
MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:47 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
chrsr3089's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: sacramento ca
Posts: 57
ya i no i need an adjustable track bar. but it never used to have the problem when i first lifted it but after a couple rubicon trips and some other wheeling now its like this. so i no its not from those things or else it would have done it from the start. my tie rod also looks slightly bent. do you think my stabilizer shocks gone bad?
chrsr3089 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:55 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
tazmann910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta Georgia
Posts: 2,143
Send a message via AIM to tazmann910 Send a message via Yahoo to tazmann910
I would listen to the man with the big jeep.

It is a combination of all things mentioned. Get a new trac bar, steering stablizer, stock pitman arm, and an alignment and you should be all set.

Also what you are experiencing is called "Death Wobble" do a search on this forum and you will read all kinds of "fixes"

Now, if you have the cash to get the Currie Steering system, then go for it.

Just my .02 worth.
__________________
03 TJ with a bunch of upgrades...
Off The Map 4 Wheel Drive Club.
tazmann910 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:57 PM   #7
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsr3089 View Post
so i no its not from those things or else it would have done it from the start.
Well, then I will enlighten you to the delicate descriptions of your steering setup in a manner accustomed to that which the administrators have deemed valuable.

Look at your steering setup. Drag link, tie rod, track bar. Those 3 items are the only thing on your vehicle that allow you to turn your tires with the box hooked up to the frame. From the factory, it was designed with specific parameters to keep your vehicle driving straight and on the up and up. Not in the ditch.

Your track bar should be as parallel to the ground as possible. Likewise, your drag link should be as parallel to the track bar as possible. When your suspension articulates the axle will roll in an arch since the track bar is hooked to the frame in one location and to the axle on the other. The track bar and drag link need to move in the same motion to keep away from what is commonly referred to as bump steer. If you hit a bump and your steering geometry is not acceptable then it will follow physics rule and play out to the path of least resistance.

When you lower your pitman arm you should also lower the frame side of your track bar. Not doing so puts your steering into a bind where the only possible situation is for your tires to move side to side when you hit a bump.

Furthermore, your stock track bar is designed to work in a specific range. That range is designed for the stock shocks and stock height. Once you lift the vehicle you pull your front axle off center. Not only causing your front axle to be off centered but changing the dynamic range for the stock track bar tie rod located inside the frame.

You keep telling me that it keeps getting worse. That's because you are damaging the stock parts that need to be replaced. Your track bar will only droop so far before it will either snap off or bend. Your bent steering components will also contribute to your toe. If you are toe'd in now then of course you will have crappier steering.

Your proper road to fixing your jeep the correct way is to install the stock pitman arm. Replace the stock track bar with an acceptable aftermarket adjustable unit. Replace any bent steering links you have and get an alignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsr3089 View Post
do you think my stabilizer shocks gone bad?
Maybe so. It still has nothing to do with your problem.
MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:57 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
chrsr3089's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: sacramento ca
Posts: 57
why would they give me a pitman arm to drop it if i dont need it? and my frend didnt put a drop one on his jeep when he lifted it and its even worse.
chrsr3089 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 03:59 PM   #9
Jeeper
 
tazmann910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta Georgia
Posts: 2,143
Send a message via AIM to tazmann910 Send a message via Yahoo to tazmann910
Sounds like you guys have some homework to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsr3089 View Post
why would they give me a pitman arm to drop it if i dont need it? and my frend didnt put a drop one on his jeep when he lifted it and its even worse.
__________________
03 TJ with a bunch of upgrades...
Off The Map 4 Wheel Drive Club.
tazmann910 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 04:01 PM   #10
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsr3089 View Post
why would they give me a pitman arm to drop it if i dont need it? and my frend didnt put a drop one on his jeep when he lifted it and its even worse.
because you bought your lift from Rough Country. Search out your lift on a couple of the jeep forums and figure it out for yourself. Just because they sell jeep parts doesn't mean they know how it works. Just because your friends jeep doesn't work as well doesn't mean that is his problem. I could diagnose it for you.

Let me put it this way. Maybe you will see at least one of my jeeps and you can feel more apt to understanding my qualifications.

Here is my wifes jeep. Notice the 4.5" of suspension lift? Notice the stock steering? Notice the stock pitman arm? This jeep has ZERO issues. Period. It drives better down the road than a stock jeep.

MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 05:19 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
4.0l sahara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: shelton,ct
Posts: 2,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.CLIFFORD View Post
because you bought your lift from Rough Country. Search out your lift on a couple of the jeep forums and figure it out for yourself. Just because they sell jeep parts doesn't mean they know how it works. Just because your friends jeep doesn't work as well doesn't mean that is his problem. I could diagnose it for you.

Let me put it this way. Maybe you will see at least one of my jeeps and you can feel more apt to understanding my qualifications.

Here is my wifes jeep. Notice the 4.5" of suspension lift? Notice the stock steering? Notice the stock pitman arm? This jeep has ZERO issues. Period. It drives better down the road than a stock jeep.

I was going to say somthing just like you said. You beat me to it. Ya just do what he said and it will be all good.
__________________
99 sahara
4.0/np231/ax15/d30/d35
flowmaster40,hpd30 with aussie locker,currie upper joints,4.88's, lca skids,chromo shafts,vanco brakes,d35 with super 35 and arb locker,re 4.5" springs,currie arms,re front uppers,Re shocks in back,walkerevens shocks up front, Re track bars with currie jj joints,anti rock,ss brake lines,re rear sway bar links,jks 1.25" bl and mml,bfg 35x12.5 km2's,craiger soft 8's,ome steering stabilizer,currie hd steering,rockmen front bumper,emp tank skid,lots more too.
4.0l sahara is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 05:33 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
ygohome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: now in HOUSTON TEXAS, ya'll
Posts: 1,428
short answer... use a dropped pitman arm if your track bar bracket is also dropped lower on the frame end. otherwise use stock pitman arm.

another question for Chrsr... did your suspension come with aftermarket control arms? are any of them adjustable?... which ones? I'm suspecting caster. sometimes the jeep will drive fine... then you hit a tiny bump and it goes crazy till you pretty much have to come to a stop. does that describe it?
__________________

Frank Bullitt (BULLZ)
April 2001 - Sept 2011
ygohome is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 05:56 PM   #13
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
caster is not the leading cause of death wobble. Loose steering parts and misaligned steering parts are. Caster just makes it easier for those loose components to shake out of control.
MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 06:05 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
myanarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 191
How about post a pic of what you have, and we can tell you what you need to do
myanarchy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 06:21 PM   #15
Wrecktrician
 
4point's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Sierra
Posts: 7,351
Mr Clifford it's not often that these problems are solved with such detail as you just posted. Great Job! You didn't even loose your temper, you just went into further detail after being told you were wrong.
This is why I like this forum. Good info from qualified people.
__________________
Just getting to work is an adventure.
4point is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 06:21 PM   #16
Jeeper
 
ygohome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: now in HOUSTON TEXAS, ya'll
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.CLIFFORD View Post
caster is not the leading cause of death wobble. Loose steering parts and misaligned steering parts are. Caster just makes it easier for those loose components to shake out of control.
I'm just wondering if his knuckles are looking like | when they should be more like /

with 4" of lift and stock control arms his knuckls would be nearly completely verticle. a little pebble in the road would cause uncontrollable shaking even if everything else was tight and toe in spot on.
__________________

Frank Bullitt (BULLZ)
April 2001 - Sept 2011
ygohome is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 06:31 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
myanarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsr3089 View Post
my steering on my 2002 tj is very sloppy and has alot of play in it. it has a 4 inch lift with 33's. its gotten worse and worse every time i go wheeling.everytime i hit a bump the wheel shakes alot also. what should i do to fix this? a new stabilizer shock? a hd steering system like the currie enterprise one? any advice wouled be great thanks.
Other than checking to make sure everything is tight, have you checked the unit bearings? Ball joints? Swapped tires?
myanarchy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 06:58 PM   #18
Wrecktrician
 
4point's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Sierra
Posts: 7,351
chrsr I have this kit on my jeep also. I had the same exact problems that you are having. The trackbar was the culprit. I installed a spacer in the lower mount where the trackbar used to mount, it's where the new drop bracket is bolted to. If you don't do this the trackbar keeps coming loose and will effect handling. Also do an alignment this will help loads.

Scout cover your ears, I don't want you to hear what I'm going to say next.


This kit is a big piece of crap. Its just plain under engineered. It is just a lift kit not a suspension system. I just ordered new control arms, because I'm going to rid my jeep of this kit a piece at a time.
__________________
Just getting to work is an adventure.
4point is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 07:14 PM   #19
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
4point, are you telling me you installed the dropped track bar bracket on the axle?
MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 07:21 PM   #20
Wrecktrician
 
4point's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Sierra
Posts: 7,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.CLIFFORD View Post
4point, are you telling me you installed the dropped track bar bracket on the axle?
Yes?

That where it goes with this kit.
__________________
Just getting to work is an adventure.
4point is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 07:26 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8,286
Send a message via AIM to Triple88a Send a message via MSN to Triple88a Send a message via Yahoo to Triple88a Send a message via Skype™ to Triple88a
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4point View Post
I just ordered new control arms,

whats wrong w/ the rc arms?

I'm planning on installing my lift kit and i'm wondering if i install the tbar drop bracket w/ out the drop pitarm for temporarily use will it be okay on the road?

I'm about to order a tbar now..
Triple88a is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 07:36 PM   #22
Wrecktrician
 
4point's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Sierra
Posts: 7,351
I'd go ahead and order the T-bar if I was you. I'm replacing my control arms because I'm afraid the RC arms are going to destroy the brackets on the axle. I'm going to replace the t-bar next and then move to the back and do CA's and t-bar. Then new springs.

The only flaw in my plan is reading the "evolution" thread, I don't know if I'll be happy when I'm done.
__________________
Just getting to work is an adventure.
4point is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 08:00 PM   #23
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4point View Post
Yes?

That where it goes with this kit.
you obviously didn't read my elongated post above. Why would you drop the drag link at the pitman and drop the track bar at the axle? It takes 2 parallel lines and makes a big fat X out of them. If you drop the pitman arm you drop the track bar at the frame. Which equals the same end.

Plus, that track bar bracket is a freakin joke. Think about the leverage you are already putting on a stock stamped steel bracket. Now move the fulcrum out and imagine the pain and suffering you are causing. Rough Country needs to get out of this industry. Period. I promise you, after a couple hours on the phone discussing proper suspension geometry, and they are still as dumb founded as before I believe your money is wasted some place better.
MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-17-2007, 08:08 PM   #24
Wrecktrician
 
4point's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Sierra
Posts: 7,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR.CLIFFORD View Post
you obviously didn't read my elongated post above. Why would you drop the drag link at the pitman and drop the track bar at the axle? It takes 2 parallel lines and makes a big fat X out of them. If you drop the pitman arm you drop the track bar at the frame. Which equals the same end.

Plus, that track bar bracket is a freakin joke. Think about the leverage you are already putting on a stock stamped steel bracket. Now move the fulcrum out and imagine the pain and suffering you are causing. Rough Country needs to get out of this industry. Period. I promise you, after a couple hours on the phone discussing proper suspension geometry, and they are still as dumb founded as before I believe your money is wasted some place better.

That kit was installed way before I even knew who you were.
__________________
Just getting to work is an adventure.
4point is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-30-2007, 05:57 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
4bangertj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: peoria heights
Posts: 256
this is goin to sound like a dumb question so forgive me...i have death wobble slightly on my jeep after installing a 2 inch budget boost. an adjustable trac arm will cure it? if so how to determine the proper setting on that trac bar? see told ya it was a dumb question lol, im desperate for my jeep to be highway worthy!
__________________

99 Wrangler
Flame Red, Black soft top
home made rocker guards
2.5 L low output 5spd man. trans
2 inch terra flex BB
32x11.50 BFG mud terrains
black rock crawler wheels
flush mounted led taillights w liscense plate relocator
Flowmaster super offroad 44 exhaust
kc slim lighters (windshield)
hella 550 driving lights(bumper)
kenwood mp3/cd head unit
JL audio 450 watt amp
10" kicker comp. sub
4bangertj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-30-2007, 06:11 PM   #26
Wrecktrician
 
4point's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Sierra
Posts: 7,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bangertj View Post
this is goin to sound like a dumb question so forgive me...i have death wobble slightly on my jeep after installing a 2 inch budget boost. an adjustable trac arm will cure it? if so how to determine the proper setting on that trac bar? see told ya it was a dumb question lol, im desperate for my jeep to be highway worthy!
I can't say "death wobble' has ever been described as slight. Its more of a violent left/right shake that will not stop until you stop the vehicle. The track-bar is usually the culprit of death wobble.

Check all your hardware for tight. I even had to do a t-case drop on my father-in-law's BB to get rid of some vibes.
__________________
Just getting to work is an adventure.
4point is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-30-2007, 06:29 PM   #27
Jeeper
 
4bangertj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: peoria heights
Posts: 256
well i had death wobble on my 00 xj it had a junk 3inch rc lift and when it wobbled i literaly took up both lanes of the highway, in my tj when it wobbles all i gotta do it steer slightly to the right and it goes away instantly. and im able to drive a straight line as its wobblin. im goin out right now to check the trac arm bolts
__________________

99 Wrangler
Flame Red, Black soft top
home made rocker guards
2.5 L low output 5spd man. trans
2 inch terra flex BB
32x11.50 BFG mud terrains
black rock crawler wheels
flush mounted led taillights w liscense plate relocator
Flowmaster super offroad 44 exhaust
kc slim lighters (windshield)
hella 550 driving lights(bumper)
kenwood mp3/cd head unit
JL audio 450 watt amp
10" kicker comp. sub
4bangertj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-30-2007, 06:37 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
4bangertj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: peoria heights
Posts: 256
i know i have to drop the tc cause im gettin some vibes that feel like they are comin from under the seat so im thinkin that would be the drive shaft. i just checked the axle bolt from the trac arm and doesnt seem as tight as it should be. i grabbed the trac arm and twisted it and the bolt moved with the arm, almost like the hole is too big for the bolt or somethin...hmmmm
__________________

99 Wrangler
Flame Red, Black soft top
home made rocker guards
2.5 L low output 5spd man. trans
2 inch terra flex BB
32x11.50 BFG mud terrains
black rock crawler wheels
flush mounted led taillights w liscense plate relocator
Flowmaster super offroad 44 exhaust
kc slim lighters (windshield)
hella 550 driving lights(bumper)
kenwood mp3/cd head unit
JL audio 450 watt amp
10" kicker comp. sub
4bangertj is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-31-2007, 12:20 AM   #29
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8,286
Send a message via AIM to Triple88a Send a message via MSN to Triple88a Send a message via Yahoo to Triple88a Send a message via Skype™ to Triple88a
I instaled my 4" RC kit. I did not even bother w/ the Drop pit arm. I just installed the track bar relocation bracket and now i have bump steer which i can deal with until i get my new track bar. So far i'm satisfied w/ the kit. Since its quite stiff i have my front sway bar disconnected to soften up the ride and I am problem free (knock on wood...besides the bump steer)
Triple88a is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-31-2007, 08:38 AM   #30
WINNAR!!!!!!
 
MR.CLIFFORD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: THE PROVING GROUNDS
Posts: 6,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple88a View Post
I instaled my 4" RC kit. I did not even bother w/ the Drop pit arm. I just installed the track bar relocation bracket and now i have bump steer which i can deal with until i get my new track bar. So far i'm satisfied w/ the kit. Since its quite stiff i have my front sway bar disconnected to soften up the ride and I am problem free (knock on wood...besides the bump steer)
take the dropped track bar bracket OFF!!! That is the worst idea ANY off road company has ever come up with. I will stress this again. TAKE IT OFF.

MR.CLIFFORD is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steering Problems nicolas-eric TJ Tech Forum 4 12-19-2008 08:29 AM
steering problems rumpshaker66 General Jeep Discussion 1 09-21-2008 12:07 PM
Steering problems HkdOnJP General Jeep Discussion 5 09-18-2008 03:50 PM
steering box issues upinar TJ Tech Forum 0 02-12-2008 08:57 PM
Play on the Steering Wheel fummar NorthEast Regional Forum 6 04-27-2007 04:40 PM



» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 AM.



JeepŪ, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC