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Old 03-22-2010, 04:09 PM   #1
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Still overheating !!!

Well just changed the water pump removed the thermostat flushed everything out added new coolant burped all the air out of the system. But still overheating??? it gets up to temp and then slowly gets hotter until it overheats . the only other thing i can think of is the clutch fan wich i replaced last april. When i installed it i acutaly put it on backwoods for a couple days til i figgured that out then it was fine maybe that wore the clutch out prematurly. I don't no Please help.

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Old 03-22-2010, 04:12 PM   #2
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Does the fan come on?

is the Rad getting hot? or just engine?

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Old 03-22-2010, 04:25 PM   #3
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Well it is always on . should it get noticably louder when it starts to get warm
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:59 PM   #4
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to test the clutch fan spin it and it should have a good resistance. if it spins free its bad. (when the motor is cold and off) you could have a clogged radiator, either internally or have mud caked on it and clogging the fins. or there is a blockage in your block. do a flow test and a pressure test with a leak down.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:27 PM   #5
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Well i think the fan is good it did speed up as it reached a certan temp.
I do think i have a clogged radiator though don't think i have one of those with the plastic top and bottem tanks but did have a small leak at one time and put a small amount of stop leak in it. hope it's not in the block.
how do i do a flow and presure test and leak down ?
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:34 PM   #6
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bump
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:11 PM   #7
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is there bubbling coolant in overflow tank?
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:14 PM   #8
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radiator time.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:53 PM   #9
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is there bubbling coolant in overflow tank?
Yes when it gets hot it starts bubbling pretty good in the overflow tank.
I did a presure test today and the coolant system is holding presure and when the engine is running it keeps the same presure the cap was bad wouldn't hold presure. I replaced that.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:59 PM   #10
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you didn't mention whether you put in a new thermostat or just left it out. If you put a new one in, what temp ?
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:12 PM   #11
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I left the thermostat out for now .
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:21 PM   #12
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It sounds like your radiator may have gotten sufficiently clogged with hard water deposits to slow/block the flow of coolant through the water channels. That can be fixed by having the radiator "rodded out", when the radiator is an all metal design. Unfortunately, the TJ's is not all metal and it cannot be rodded out and rebuilt to fix that problem. If the radiator is clogged, the only fix is to replace it.

When the engine is cold, try draining enough coolant out so you can see the top of the core with the radiator cap is off. You'll need a flashlight to look down inside. Look closely for white hard water buildup inside around the water channels. If you see much of that, it's time to replace the radiator.

Hard water deposits are caused by using tap water to mix with the coolant. Only distilled (demineralized) water should be used inside a radiator, the type you can buy by the gallon for fifty cents from your local grocery store in the water aisle.

Don't forget to install a new 195 degree thermostat when you're done. Remember to orient the thermostat so its little air-burp hole is at the top. If it doesn't have one, drill a 1/8" hole in the thermostat's flange & position it at the top when installing it. That hole helps the cooling system get rid of trapped air.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:36 PM   #13
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Thanx man i was thinking thats what the problem was all along. I herd someone on here talking about champion radiator and they have realy good prices on new all aluminum 1 2 and 3 row units like $150.00 talked to them about a week ago but their out of stock at the moment. anyone no of any other stores like this ?
Also the jeeps in the shop today for inspection and a front end alignment so their going to look into the overheating to be sure. I'll update everone when i get it back.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:40 PM   #14
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In order of preference for a TJ, it would be 1, 2, then 3 row with a 1 row model being the most efficient for cooling. $150 sounds pretty cheap for an all auminum radiator, I dunno about that. It is probably from China for that price and probably lined with epoxy to keep it from leaking. An epoxy lining reduces the interior volume of the radiator and is nothing but a band-aid fix for a poorly constructed (leak-prone) radiator..
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:49 PM   #15
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In order of preference for a TJ, it would be 1, 2, then 3 row with a 1 row model being the most efficient for cooling. $150 sounds pretty cheap for an all auminum radiator, I dunno about that. It is probably from China for that price and probably lined with epoxy to keep it from leaking. An epoxy lining reduces the interior volume of the radiator and is nothing but a band-aid fix for a poorly constructed (leak-prone) radiator..
I'll see if i can find the link but their all aluminum and fully tig welded
whats the reason behind 1 row being better than a 2 row ?
i was told 2 row was better for jeep .
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:55 PM   #16
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Jeep went from a 2 row to a 1 row radiator around 2003 for better cooling. 1 row radiators can put bigger water channels into the same space that a 2 row has space for. Don't forget that a 2 row radiator has the same exterior dimensions as a 1 row radiator does. A 2 row is no deeper than a 1 row is, they both have just one core. Bigger water channels, where a Jeep is concerned, means better cooling in the types of uses it typically gets used in.

The high-zoot all aluminum radiators that sell for $500 and up used for desert rigs and hot enviornments are typically 1-row radiators.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:00 PM   #17
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I have had some serious over heating issues lately myself.






Turned out the fins of the radiator and AC condenser were filled with solid mud on the bottom halves. I took out the radiator and washed them both seperatly clean.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:21 PM   #18
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Jerry i still flat out dissagree. which is very rare since your dead on the great majority of the time. how can a one row be more efficient. why is every HD truck sold with 3 rows. why is every motorsports HD radiator 3 row or more.... Ive been wrenching for years on boats and trucks and have done many radiator swaps and replacements. the consensus from every shop ive used is go big and never deal with it again... to recomend a one row replacement just doesnt make sence. If your gonna swap it do it right. bigger tubes doesnt mean crap if the flow is to fast or your fins per inch isnt enough. the only way i see a 1 row radiator keeping up with a 3 row is if the 1 row is 5ft wide by 8 ft tall, simple matter of surface area. i just got back from a 400+ mile desert trip with it being in the 80s the whole time. I had no issues with my 3row alum. i was in the top of 2nd gear hard on the jeep most of the time out there. especially in the deep sand washes going uphill pinned in 2nd. things will get hot really fast. If i had a 1 row alum im sure i would have had to pull over several times to let things cool like i have done in the past with the stock and 3 row all metal rad. I know your argument of the radiators being the same size and just throwing in extra tubes clogs things up. thats why i bought a purpose built radiator made for 3 rows. bigger tanks, more space, and more fins. all for 200 bucks from champion. so its not like its not affordable either to do it right.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
The high-zoot all aluminum radiators that sell for $500 and up used for desert rigs and hot enviornments are typically 1-row radiators.
Im on desert sites and attend alot of desert races throughout the year. im no pro and dont know everything. but the guys out there do not use 1 row rads. its all huge stuff from ron davis, griffen, and other big names. most guys have the radiator behind them in the "bed" area and are being cooled my monster electric fans. you will find that radiators are HP rated not what temp your gonna be in rated.

an example of a desert truck setup
PWR Performance Products

the minimum you will see is a 2 row. ive yet to see a 2 row in a trophy truck
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:48 PM   #20
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If your radiator cap was bad, that will also cause your engine to overheat. The cooloing system builds up pressure and doing that raises the boiling point of the coolant.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:55 PM   #21
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Jerry i still flat out dissagree. which is very rare since your dead on the great majority of the time. how can a one row be more efficient. why is every HD truck sold with 3 rows.
First, I realize it sounds counterintuitive. And in some road applications a 3-row makes more sense. But I guess all I can say is go look at the desert racer type all aluminum radiators, the OE Jeep radiator, and high-end all aluminum radiators made for wheeling in the desert. You will find they are generally/mostly 1-row radiators. Jeep switched from a 2 row to a single row all aluminum core radiator around 2003 to improve cooling. The key to cooling is really not even the number of rows but the surface area of the cooling channel and the number of cooling fins which is far more important than the # of rows. A 1 row radiator has more room for larger surface water channels and usually for fins as well. This is probably why so many desert racers run 1 row radiators and why Jeep switched from a 2 row to a 1 row radiator. I'm not a radiator expert but those I have asked about this over the years have been pretty universal on Jeeps doing better fewer rows. Jeep must agree having switched to a 1 row to help cooling issues earlier 2-row radiator equipped models had.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:26 PM   #22
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Thank you Rawkon & Jerry for all your input I just got it back from the inspection station did not pass said i need all the front ball joints witch i think is bull!!! I raised the Jeep off the ground and tried to shake the wheels top to bottom and they were tight as a bulls ass.
They did check the coolant system and everything checked out they said the rad should be flushed out though. Also it is a bit better sence i replaced the cap.
Here is the link to Rawkon's radaitor swap from champion
Champion 3 row aluminum rad full install
Check em out they can make radiators with as many or less rows you'd like.
As for me i think I'll go with a 2 row unless you guys figure it out before tuseday when they get there stock in.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:37 PM   #23
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did you mix the wrong coolant in the system? remember, the coolants need to be compatable with each other. the old style green and the new style orange would turn to a jelly when mixed together. the new style green mixes with all types fine.

are you sure you didnt blow a head gasket?

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Old 03-23-2010, 08:37 PM   #24
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I just bought a new all aluminum (welded aluminum tanks) Radiator for like only $120 on Ebay. Cant beat it for the price. No more plastic tanks to leak. And a hole lot cheaper than a Griffin radiator.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:41 PM   #25
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but you see jerry your wrong they dont use 1 row in desert racing i just posted links and am apart of desert racing. I see alot of prerunners and race trucks. the minimum is a giant 2 row. i even posted llinks to desert race truck setups. I find jeep and other companies dont improve anything but cheap out and do whats needed to get by at a lower cost and then charge us more for the "improvement". going from a 2 to a 1 with plastic tanks just costs less and barely gets the job done. radiators use to be all metal... now they are metal and plastic and explode/crack after a few thousand miles. is plastic an improvement?? no its just cheaper and works for a while.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:22 PM   #26
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I just bought a new all aluminum (welded aluminum tanks) Radiator for like only $120 on Ebay. Cant beat it for the price. No more plastic tanks to leak. And a hole lot cheaper than a Griffin radiator.
send the link if you will.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:50 PM   #27
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Look at a stationary engine. Obviously they don't depend on vehicle speed to generate airflow. Most that I've observed have 1 row - big tubes - and the tubes are crinkled to slow the water down.

An important ingredient too is the amount of water in the system. The rear mounted "racing" radiators have long hoses to and fro - the hoses themselves hold alot of extra water and the surface area of the hoses gets rid of lots of heat. Plus notice the size of them, they wouldn't fit in the front of a TJ.

Obviously a 1 row will hold quite a bit more water in the same space as 2, 3, or 4 rows will. Some "racing" radiators have lots of extra fins - good for high speeds when the air is forced through. Not good for slow running like rock crawling.

And it certainly has alot to do with what you are doing with the vehicle - track racing, high speed "go faster" racing, rock crawling, grocery getting, parked and idling, - or trail riding.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:45 AM   #28
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a single row wont hold any more water then a 2 or 3. it all depends on the tanks. most single row rads are for short distance racing. like drag cars. they run a huge 1.25" tube and are usually oversized in overall diameters. heres an add for a typical one row racing rad..
"No compromises--keep your engine cool with AFCO Racing lightweight radiators.
AFCO Racing's lightweight single row radiators are almost 1/2 the weight of 2-row radiators and are built from detailed, computer-designed specifications. These lightweight radiators are ideal for alcohol-fueled cars or cars with limited cooling requirements."
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:53 AM   #29
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Which takes more room - a 1 gallon jug of water or 8 pints of water?

One row vs. several rows, same principle.
It's not scientific -- In the same space, multiple rows needs space between the tubes - lost water space.

In a TJ's mount, there's only so much room.

The total weight isn't really less - the metal may weigh a few ounces less, but the extra water it holds more than compensates for it.

But use what you want, it's YOUR rig.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:29 AM   #30
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Which takes more room - a 1 gallon jug of water or 8 pints of water?

One row vs. several rows, same principle.
It's not scientific -- In the same space, multiple rows needs space between the tubes - lost water space.

In a TJ's mount, there's only so much room.

The total weight isn't really less - the metal may weigh a few ounces less, but the extra water it holds more than compensates for it.

But use what you want, it's YOUR rig.
That is not how a radiator works though. IT functions based off of surface area. the more rows and thinner the veins will make an equal amount of fluid in a single or multiple row radiator have different surface area. When the Air, via the fan at low offroading speeds, passes over the surface area the heat transfer is made to cool the fluid.

Aluminum is a much better heat since than steel. Vein design also comes into play, If they are packed to tightly together there is not enough room for air to flow through and make the heat transfer.

Jerry could be very well right that jeep went from a 2 core steel rad with bad vein design to a single core aluminum rad and actually improved its cooling ability.

There are literally hundreds of combinations and factors that will make a rad work or not work for your specific needs. Example being the desert racing vehicle. A vehicle that moves at a higher rate of speed during usage Like a desert race truck or nascar will have a tighter veined rad as there will be more air pressure to push through it. that is why many times you will see vehicles like this have over heating issues if they are forced to run slow for periods of time. When we take our jeeps out onto trails and run at .........5-10mph we have or fans as only means of drawing air through it. So it has to be more open for easy airflow.



Just my thoughts on it having been involved with a lot of different automotive hobbies.

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