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Old 05-12-2008, 01:52 AM   #1
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Still vibes.. anyone else?

Well since I got the 3.5 re I got vibes.. Yes it is better with the TW shaft and sye. I did everything and took out the shaft. Pinion is dead on. and c ouple degrees lower.. still the same. I had the shaft rebalanced. it was .75oz off but still vibes. there is no play with my suspension at all. I give up really but being a former mechanic. It bugs me to know its still there..

It happens around 45-55 mph.. harmonic vibes. the sound varies depending on how much gas I give or going up a slight slope.

I thought the sye and shaft would solve the problem for sure. I was happier witht he 2 in spacer lift. I think..

The U joints have no play and are greased. The only other thing I have not tried is replacing the shaft itself. but that is too costly.. Trust me I did everything that was recommended..

anyone else have this problem???? Its more annoying than anything.

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Old 05-12-2008, 03:07 AM   #2
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are you sure that the vibes come from the rear driveshaft?

demount the rear driveshaft and drive only with the front driveshaft in 4H. are the vibes still there? then the rear driveshaft canīt cause the vibes.

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Old 05-12-2008, 09:34 AM   #3
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ya try that, doesn't sound like tire balance cuz of the different sound with different throttle.

i wasn't real clear reading it, but it sounds like you checked the pinion angle. eventhough people say you don't need to do anything w/ a sye installed, i firmly believe pinion angle is important. even w/ sye, if the pinion angle is a little steep you can get vibes. t case drop helps this prob. but most guys say you don't do it, and i'm not up on as much on the tj's, but on yj's/cj's it is important. after 2" the angle is too steep, slip yoke eliminator makes the rear shaft longer so the angle is better, but sometimes just another inch off that drive line makes all the diff.

but i'd try removing it and driving to see also first. process of elimination. good luck
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:15 AM   #4
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ya try that, doesn't sound like tire balance cuz of the different sound with different throttle.

i wasn't real clear reading it, but it sounds like you checked the pinion angle. eventhough people say you don't need to do anything w/ a sye installed, i firmly believe pinion angle is important. even w/ sye, if the pinion angle is a little steep you can get vibes. t case drop helps this prob.
Once a SYE is installed, there is never any need to do a t-case drop. Pinion angle definitely must be changed once a SYE and CV driveshaft has been installed, it has to be raised so it's directly in line with the CV driveshaft, with 1-2 degrees under that of the driveshaft being ideal to counteract some very minor axle wrap the TJ can have due to torque and bushing compression.

Bpowa, as the others suggested, I'd see how it drives with the rear driveshaft removed. Just use 4Hi and see if you get vibes at the speeds you're getting them at now. With the new driveshaft and that it appears you have the pinion angle set properly from your description, I'm thinking it could just be a tire balance issue.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:41 AM   #5
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i agree jerry, but for those that don't have the ability to reset pinion angle, t case drop will usually solve that problem w/ the amount of lift we're talking here. that's all i throw that out for. but it sounds like he's got pinion angle right anyway.
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:05 PM   #6
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I would start looking for something rubbing I have ridden in Jeeps with driveshafts misalinged and felt the vibration but never heard it.I have heard exausts and other parts vibrating.
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:39 PM   #7
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i agree jerry, but for those that don't have the ability to reset pinion angle, t case drop will usually solve that problem w/ the amount of lift we're talking here. that's all i throw that out for. but it sounds like he's got pinion angle right anyway.
Not only is a t-case drop not needed for a SYE and CV driveshaft, just dropping the t-case to run a CV driveshaft would actually make using the CV driveshaft impossible to use without destroying parts of it. The rear pinion angle MUST (!) be raised significantly to run a CV driveshaft, dropping the t-case instead would just make things worse. Vibes would be horrendous and the u-joints would be toast in short order, not to mention it could also take the bearings and/or seals with it too. And while technically it is POSSIBLE to drop the t-case enough so a CV driveshaft could be used, the drop would have to be so deep (at least several inches) that it'd be ridiculous and not something that'd be usable on the trail.
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
I'm thinking it could just be a tire balance issue.
x2


unbalanced front tires cause a shaking steering wheel at a speed of about 30-50 mph.
unbalanced rear tires can only cause bad vibes, they canīt cause any shaking.
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:50 PM   #9
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Same problem here with the vibes hearing and feeling it between 45 and 55. I have the SYE and the T-case drop with a 4 inch suspension lift. I assumed it was from the rpm's running to low around 1100 I have an 03 4sp auto though is your auto or manual. I know if I give it a little bit of gas and do not let it chill around that speed it does not do it. All my tires were balanced as well no change. Let me know if you find out what the reasoning is. I also am still running the 28 inch tires, so it is not due to the excess weight or tires...
Dont say anything I know it looks stupid but I am waiting on money and the bfg km2's in my size.

Hope you find out what the reasoning is.
my dad rode in the jeep for the first time this week and said he thought it needed a new sensor. I will let you know if I find out what to correct to fix it.
but I am pretty sure it has to do with the low RPM's as described. Please again, do post if you find a solution.

-John
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:02 PM   #10
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my dad rode in the jeep for the first time this week and said he thought it needed a new sensor.
Sensor? What sensor is your dad thinking could possibly cause vibrations??? I'm a dad and my son thinks I know everything about cars (obviously I don't) but does your dad know much about this kind of stuff?
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiro2736 View Post
my dad rode in the jeep for the first time this week and said he thought it needed a new sensor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Sensor? What sensor is your dad thinking could possibly cause vibrations?


jerry, donīt you know the anti-vibration sensor which is a part of the TJs electronic stability control system?



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Old 05-12-2008, 01:16 PM   #12
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Not only is a t-case drop not needed for a SYE and CV driveshaft, just dropping the t-case to run a CV driveshaft would actually make using the CV driveshaft impossible to use without destroying parts of it. The rear pinion angle MUST (!) be raised significantly to run a CV driveshaft, dropping the t-case instead would just make things worse. Vibes would be horrendous and the u-joints would be toast in short order, not to mention it could also take the bearings and/or seals with it too. And while technically it is POSSIBLE to drop the t-case enough so a CV driveshaft could be used, the drop would have to be so deep (at least several inches) that it'd be ridiculous and not something that'd be usable on the trail.
by installing a 3.5" lift and an sye, and not resetting pinion angle you will get vibes. just above 2" seems to be a magic time for vibes. if someone did not set pinion angle, and a lot of people dont, it will vibe. all a t case drop is doing is bringing the driveline a little closer to the way it was before the lift brought the rear axle away from the t case.

the cv shaft is not gonna be pushed into the t case, it is not gonna destroy parts, or seals. it has plenty of room still to move. pinion angle would be almost where it was stock, within an inch or so. and longer shaft would make angle fine. is it preferred no, but that's not always what happens.

you need to slow down on everyone here buddy, your way isn't the only way.

not everyone can do things the way you want. just cuz you know the perfect way to do it, doesn't mean someone else has the means, or money to do it that way, so we try to add info to help when people are in a situation.

there's a way to post info without trying to boost your ego, and make everyone else look wrong.

back to this case, all of this might have nothing to do with it. usually tire balance doesn't make different noises or feel dramatically different with throttle changes. still possible, all kinds of weird things happen.
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:18 PM   #13
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i'll go all day long about automotive knowledge if you want, whats the point, no one is impressed. we're trying to help people here.
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:44 PM   #14
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are you sure that the vibes come from the rear driveshaft?

demount the rear driveshaft and drive only with the front driveshaft in 4H. are the vibes still there? then the rear driveshaft canīt cause the vibes.
yes I dismounted, the front and it was still there.. just to make sure I took out the rear and left the front and it was gone.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:04 PM   #15
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when they rebalanced your shaft, did they check it to make sure its true? i had a harmonic vibe when my front shaft was bent....it was obviously bent though......
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:11 PM   #16
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good, you've ruled out tire balance at the same time to. i'd say have the d shaft checked out again.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:14 PM   #17
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Sensor? What sensor is your dad thinking could possibly cause vibrations??? I'm a dad and my son thinks I know everything about cars (obviously I don't) but does your dad know much about this kind of stuff?
What a jerk! I said it was his first time in the jeep and my RPM's are running low when it vibrates between 45 and 55 hints the variation in performances based on the throtle. but what ever!

Once agin you said it changes based on how much gas you give it. do you have an automatic what rpms are you running?
What RPM's should I be running between 45 and 55. Does any one else's jeep run like this that does not have a lift?
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:15 PM   #18
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for sure its not the tires.. it happened with my oem wheels, and withthe new steelies..

I balanced them myself.. the steelies 3 times.. wanted it perfect.. there is no vibes from the steering wheel.. as mentioned with the 4spd auto earlier.. I got the same problem.. it does happen worse going uphill at low rpm about 1700..
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:16 PM   #19
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by installing a 3.5" lift and an sye, and not resetting pinion angle you will get vibes. just above 2" seems to be a magic time for vibes. if someone did not set pinion angle, and a lot of people dont, it will vibe. all a t case drop is doing is bringing the driveline a little closer to the way it was before the lift brought the rear axle away from the t case.
You are talking one kind of vibe, I am talking about another. You are talking about vibes that are caused by exessive u-joint angles caused by a suspension lift. I tried to explain that the vibes I was talking about were the vibes that would be caused by a CV (!) driveshaft if you did not raise the pinion angle as a CV driveshaft requires.

It reads like you're not aware that a CV driveshaft has a different pinion angle requirement than the OE driveshaft does. The new/different pinion angle I am referring to is REQUIRED by a CV driveshaft. It has nothing to do with driveshaft length, where the axle is positioned, or lift height. It's not about anyone's ego, it's about providing technically accurate information.

This is what I'm talking about, with the diagrams courtesy of Tom Wood's Custom Driveshafts web page.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:29 PM   #20
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What a jerk! I said it was his first time in the jeep and my RPM's are running low when it vibrates between 45 and 55 hints the variation in performances based on the throtle. but what ever!

Once agin you said it changes based on how much gas you give it. do you have an automatic what rpms are you running?
What RPM's should I be running between 45 and 55. Does any one else's jeep run like this that does not have a lift?
What was wrong with asking what sensor your dad thought was causing vibes? It's certainly not a crime for a dad to not know much about this stuff, that's why I asked so politely. Trying to accelerate from too low of an engine RPM can certainly cause the engine to "protest" which is called lugging, which some might confuse with a vibration. Try shutting your overdrive off when this happens the next time. If the higher engine RPMs shutting the overdrives off causes eliminates the vibes, then it's likely your engine is just lugging. Also try possibly stepping on the accelerator pedal a little more aggressively to see if forcing it to downshift to a slightly lower ratio/higher engine RPMs helps.

What is your axle ratio? 3.07 or 3.73?
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:29 PM   #21
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yes, i do understand both conditions we're talking about. you can also offset the difference by using t case drop so you're pinion angle isn't changed so much, because the higher your pinion angle, the more the pinion bearigs are starved for oil. so, with that said, if the pinion angle wasn't right (which in this case it is) people can sometimes offset the problem with t case drop. not the best way to do it, but i'm not gonna repeat myself on what i've said about people not always being able to do some stuff.

bottom line is accurate info is important. if you catch someone's inaccurate advice then give your inpute in a tactful way. i've seen quite a few threads that you've clogged up with demeaning and putting down others to make yourself look superior. its not a very friendly atmosphere when you're jumpin all over people.

and jumpin on me about info is not the right thing to do brotha. so how about we squash this, and stop cluttering up posts with arguements. neither one of us knows it all, i still get suprised on problems and fixes, and i do this every day, and i'm sure its still possible to suprise you to.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:36 PM   #22
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Thanks for the diagram!!! mine looks like the one on the Right.

No one has addressed the RPM's could it be related to the torque on the drive shaft do to the lower RPM's I am just talking out my a s s but I have the same question and I just passed it off as a jeep thing and assumed all jeeps did that.???

3.73 axle ratio and shutting the overdrive off does help. How can I fix this or is it suppose to be like that
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:38 PM   #23
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:43 PM   #24
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Thanks for the diagram!!! mine looks like the one on the left.

No one has addressed the RPM's could it be related to the torque on the drive shaft do to the lower RPM's I am just talking out my a s s but I have the same question and I just passed it off as a jeep thing and assumed all jeeps did that.???
I did talk a little about RPMs in post #20 above. Such vibes during acceleration are certainly not normal. As I said above, it could just be the engine is lugging from too low of an RPM but with your 28" tire size, I am really curious what your axle ratio is.

Again, is your axle ratio 3.07 or 3.73? You can find your axle ratio embossed into a small metal tag on your axle's differential cover at its 9 o'clock position. It may say 3.74 instead of 3.73 or 3.08 instead of 3.07 as the front and rear axles are .01 apart unless it's a Rubicon which has matching f/r axles.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:47 PM   #25
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3.73 bought jeep used had 4 inch lift with 28 inch tires. I then put the SYE on it. I thought it should have had 30's but I do not know what was stock. He had 33 on it for a little while but it was his wifes and she could not get in. Do you have a solution you seem that you might?
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:53 PM   #26
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Well, the 4-speed automatic you have does have a reputation for causing problems because of its very steep overdrive ratio. Many cope with it by just constantly disengaging overdrive (too bad you can't just leave it off) as they drive around town and then let it shift into overdrive only on the highway. A close friend with that same tranny and 3.73 has to do the same thing, his finger is constantly disengaging overdrive around town. Many end up regearing their axles to a lower ratio with that particular transmission which eliminates the problem by making the engine RPMs run higher but at a typical cost of $1100-$1200, that's not a cheap fix.

I'd start disengaging the overdrive more often, and maybe kick it into lower gears with a little more aggressive use of the accelerator pedal since your issue is sounding more and more like the engine is lugging and not a drivetrain vibration... though without driving it, it's really hard to know for sure.
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Old 05-12-2008, 02:56 PM   #27
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Thanks for the help!!! one last question If I upgrade to the 33's will this problem get even worse or better . I dont want to have to regear. Sorry for jacking the thread
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:07 PM   #28
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Thanks for the help!!! one last question If I upgrade to the 33's will this problem get even worse or better . I dont want to have to regear. Sorry for jacking the thread
If your TJ's issue is from lugging the engine from engine RPMs being too low, going to 33" tires will just make it a lot worse. But if you regeared to 4.88 with those 33" tires, your TJ would be transformed by the lower ratio that raised your engine RPMs slightly higher than what you have now. By transforming, I'm saying you'd be amazed at how much better it drove without the engine lugging problem you're experiencing. I know you don't want to regear for cost reasons but doing so can work wonders for performance issues. Heck I've had to regear my TJ twice now so yes it is expensive.

But this is all conjecture, it's hard to know if your problem is caused by low engine rpms (the lugging) without actually driving it. It sounds like it is, that is for sure.
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:16 PM   #29
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Thanks!!!! I love Wrangler Forum!
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:19 PM   #30
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Thanks for the diagram!!! mine looks like the one on the Right.

No one has addressed the RPM's could it be related to the torque on the drive shaft do to the lower RPM's I am just talking out my a s s but I have the same question and I just passed it off as a jeep thing and assumed all jeeps did that.???

3.73 axle ratio and shutting the overdrive off does help. How can I fix this or is it suppose to be like that
sounds like you got the exact same problem as I do.. Im tired of it please Pm me if you ever get it fixed, and I will do the same,, as mentioned I tried everything..

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