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Old 11-11-2012, 10:47 PM   #1
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Sway bar question?

Is the sway bar suppose to be parallel to the ground? Mines pointing up a few inches from the bushings. I had the alignment done track bar replaced and steering stabilizer replaced and still feel an onset of DW :/

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-33" ATs - RE 1600 adj. track bar - RE fixed lower control arms - RE adj. sway bar links - ZJ steering upgrade - Bilstein 5100 shocks
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:49 PM   #2
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sway bar has nothing to do with your DW.

did you have the tires ROAD FORCE BALANCED?

also the steering stabilizer will not help the DW, it will only mask it for a short time, until the SS fails...then the DW comes back, and you need to replace the SS again, on top of address the original cause of the DW.

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Old 11-12-2012, 12:03 AM   #3
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The guy asked if I wanted the weights moved, I got it aligned and balanced at the local shop. I'm at a lose as to what I should do now
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-33" ATs - RE 1600 adj. track bar - RE fixed lower control arms - RE adj. sway bar links - ZJ steering upgrade - Bilstein 5100 shocks
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:15 AM   #4
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Sorry for the double post but I also saw this gap on my drag link and wasn't sure if it was normal :/
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:46 AM   #5
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Drag link looks fine.

It is hard to tell what the angle of the sway bar is from the photos. What I can tell you is that the links are not the fatory links and might be too long. Like UnlimitedLJ04 said though is that they will not be the cause of DW. You can remove the swaybar and should still not get DW.

Not sure if you are infact experiencing DW but check your upper and lower control arm bushes and torque.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:13 AM   #6
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Hmm this might be a better picture for the sway bar, and I looked at the front upper control arms and something doesn't look right..any thoughts?

EDIT: After looking at another wrangler in my parking lot, all of my control arms appear to be stock :/ the last picture i posted is just so if anybody knows if anything looks "odd"
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2005 Wrangler TJ Sport

-33" ATs - RE 1600 adj. track bar - RE fixed lower control arms - RE adj. sway bar links - ZJ steering upgrade - Bilstein 5100 shocks
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotek View Post
The guy asked if I wanted the weights moved, I got it aligned and balanced at the local shop. I'm at a lose as to what I should do now
You didn't answer my question. Did you have the tires ROAD FORCE BALANCED?

Also, what were the exact alignment specs? They should have given you a printout. What was caster, camber, toe-in, etc?

Quote:
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Hmm this might be a better picture for the sway bar, and I looked at the front upper control arms and something doesn't look right..any thoughts?
for the last time, the sway bar has nothing to do with your DW.

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Originally Posted by Lotek View Post
After looking at another wrangler in my parking lot, all of my control arms appear to be stock :/
and that could be a problem. How much lift do you have? Have you checked the bushings (upper and lowers)? ball joints? unit bearings? tie-rod ends? post more pictures of your steering, taken to capture the inside of both tires...it looks like you may have a drop pitman arm, which is a whole different problem in itself.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:33 AM   #8
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Sorry this is what they have me
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:44 AM   #9
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Wasn't sure if this is what you were looking for :/
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:58 AM   #10
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1. caster is way too low. you need adjustable lower control arms (get something with Currie Johnny Joints). Caster should be around 6°, assuming you have 33s.
2. you need to remove the drop pitman arm and replace with a stock pitman arm.
3. you may also need longer front brake lines due to the lift (specifically the longer shocks).
4. tie-rod should be upgraded, since the stockers are pretty weak. a V8 ZJ tie-rod will suffice.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:24 AM   #11
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I didn't really understand the front brake lines and shocks part. :/ Like my shocks are to long?
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:31 AM   #12
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I didn't really understand the front brake lines and shocks part. :/ Like my shocks are to long?
I don't know if your shocks are too long or not. The brake lines appear to be stock, which means when you drop the axle and turn the wheel, the brake line acts as a travel limiter....until it rips off. But again, this is all stuff that should have been checked when installing the lift.

Most people don't even know what to look for in terms of suspension mechanics and what works/what doesn't. That is painfully apparent by the installation of the drop pitman arm, which actually makes the drive-ability significantly worse than stock.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:38 AM   #13
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Okay thank you, I bought the jeep with the lift already on it, from what you say looks like he didn't know what he was doing. A stock pitman arm should fix a majority of the handling issues?
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #14
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Okay thank you, I bought the jeep with the lift already on it, from what you say looks like he didn't know what he was doing. A stock pitman arm should fix a majority of the handling issues?
A stock pitman arm will fix the bump steer you don't even know you have, not the DW or caster issues.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:00 PM   #15
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Just a side note since sway bars don't affect DW. But while the stock position for the TJ sway par is near parallel, I have heard from a company that makes sway bars that the optimal operation is for it to be 5 degrees above parallel. Seems that is about where yours is.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04
1. caster is way too low. you need adjustable lower control arms (get something with Currie Johnny Joints). Caster should be around 6°, assuming you have 33s.
2. you need to remove the drop pitman arm and replace with a stock pitman arm.
3. you may also need longer front brake lines due to the lift (specifically the longer shocks).
4. tie-rod should be upgraded, since the stockers are pretty weak. a V8 ZJ tie-rod will suffice.
All of these are true but none aside from perhaps the drop pitman arm should cause major handling issues.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #17
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All of these are true but none aside from perhaps the drop pitman arm should cause major handling issues.
low caster will also cause handling issues.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04
low caster will also cause handling issues.
Mine is a little low and the steering might be deacribed as being a bit twitchy. I guess I am used to it by now but I don't see it as a big issue.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:15 PM   #19
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Best way to describe my handling is ill be going about 40 and I can start to feel my steering wheel "wobble" back and forth from 1130-1230 position. Until I slow down it will i assume get worse and go into DW.

Also every time I hit a bump or turn I can feel the jeep bounce from left to right.

Whenever I engage the clutch to shift especially at low speed turns, it feels like my tranny is knocking around done there, some metal to metal noise >
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:32 PM   #20
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For what it is worth...I don't know what all you have as far as after market parts..but it sounds like someone tried to "cheap out" on lift and than threw parts at it to correct the handling issues they created......keep asking questions and follow the advice/ answer the questions you are asked...the people on here can help you get it back to driving really well with a little time...and some work.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:53 PM   #21
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check out checklist on DW thread..it should help you out
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:28 PM   #22
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Mine is a little low and the steering might be deacribed as being a bit twitchy. I guess I am used to it by now but I don't see it as a big issue.
what do you consider "a little low" with 32s?

He's at 4.4°. I've driven at 4.4° caster and it was squirrely as all hell, there was tire shimmy, little return to center on the steering, dartish and it followed every rut or imperfection in the road.

Quote:
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Best way to describe my handling is ill be going about 40 and I can start to feel my steering wheel "wobble" back and forth from 1130-1230 position. Until I slow down it will i assume get worse and go into DW.

Also every time I hit a bump or turn I can feel the jeep bounce from left to right.

Whenever I engage the clutch to shift especially at low speed turns, it feels like my tranny is knocking around done there, some metal to metal noise >
You do not have death wobble. You have a steering shimmy. You need more caster. Adjusting caster will then require a new toe-in alignment...you'll need to go back to the alignment shop that did your earlier work.

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For what it is worth...I don't know what all you have as far as after market parts..but it sounds like someone tried to "cheap out" on lift and than threw parts at it to correct the handling issues they created......
Actually, I think the PO bought cheap parts, didn't have a grasp of geometry and as such did NOT get an alignment after the lift was completed - notice in the pic above, the toe-in was all screwed up when he went to the shop. The PO never got an alignment after lift install. The Jeep drove like absolute crap compared to before, and the PO didn't understand, so he dumped it off onto the next sucker.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:34 PM   #23
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You do not have death wobble. You have a steering shimmy. You need more caster. Adjusting caster will then required a new toe-in alignment...you'll need to go back to the alignment shop that did your earlier work
That's what I didn't wanna hear :P I hate paying for things twice haha, but its a must so i can't really complain.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:39 PM   #24
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That's what I didn't wanna hear :P I hate paying for things twice haha, but its a must so i can't really complain.
I bought a Firestone Lifetime Alignment. I get free alignments now. For the initial investment of ~$120 (cost of 2 alignments), I've had over 10 alignments in the past few years, i've actually lost count....but I sure as hell have been able to dial in my steering and suspension very well.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:45 PM   #25
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You have been extremely help, I deploy quite helpful and every time I have time I spend a few days working on the jeep. Then a month later I completely forget where I left off and what needed to be done. I appreciate at.

Any ideas about the clunking every time I push/release the clutch and shift (more so at slow speeds)?
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:52 PM   #26
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You have been extremely help, I deploy quite helpful and every time I have time I spend a few days working on the jeep. Then a month later I completely forget where I left off and what needed to be done. I appreciate at.

Any ideas about the clunking every time I push/release the clutch and shift (more so at slow speeds)?
Still thinking the u-joint thing was correct....similair issue/ noises a couple years back...had them replaced 2x before they got it right...been good every since.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:01 PM   #27
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Any ideas about the clunking every time I push/release the clutch and shift (more so at slow speeds)?
I have no idea. Could be any number of things.

Have someone push/release the clutch, while you crawl under there and look/listen. That's where I'd start.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:07 PM   #28
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I'm at a lose as to what I should do now
Flat ground, engine off, put it in first gear, emergency brake off.
Crawl underneath, and rock it front and back.
Watch the action at the joints where the control arms attach to the frame and differentials.

Any of the bushings worn....
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:18 PM   #29
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To be honest mostly all of them are pretty worn, even at torque specs I can grasp the the control arms and rock them left to right , not much maybe a 1/16th of an inch at most but from what I understand their is suppose to be no movement.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:18 PM   #30
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lol dont getrun over

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