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Old 10-22-2013, 11:21 AM   #1
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The un-catchable code...

Hey everyone, if you spend a descent amount of time here you have probably seen my posts...

I have a 2001, 4.0L, automatic Sahara just bought with 65k now at 88k. I have been dealing with a CEL since I bought it foolishly at a place in Queens (LIC auto never go there)..

Codes have been misfire on all six cylinders.

I have had the coil pack changed 2x, put in a new ECU, Cam shaft adjusted, new spark plugs (champion copper), all 4 02 sensors replaced with NTK brand.

The CEL will start flashing randomly (usually on the highway with a full tank of gas and at a significant downward slope) and either go back to solid or continue to flash and begin shuddering violently until I pull over. Turn off the engine and start it back up and it is fine for a few miles before it repeats itself.

I heard of sediment in the tank so i dropped the tank but didn't really do anything with it because it was getting late but that seemed to cure the problem as I was able to drive 200 miles with no issue.

Now it will begin to idle roughly for about 10 seconds and then correct itself, and repeat. Now I have recieved a P0432 code for a bad bank 2 cat.... I'm pretty much done throwing new parts at this thing and do not feel like spending 600 bucks on guess...

Can someone please give me some suggestions as to what to do... I've heard of laquer thinner in the tank to clean the cat. I just put cataclean in to see if that helps but it came on again this morning.. I have also heard of drilling into the pipe and spraying carb cleaner directly into the cats then plugging them up. My father suggested dry gas to burn off anything in the honeycomb....

Please help..

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Old 10-22-2013, 11:27 AM   #2
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Before I even got to the part where you discussed the codes for the bad cat, I was thinking cat must be going bad given everything you have already done. Seems a bit premature given the mileage but they do go bad and that will likely be your fix. Hope you get it sorted out soon. A flashing CEL is always an exhaust related warning.

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Old 10-22-2013, 11:49 AM   #3
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Heard of any additive's or the laquer thinner thing that may help. This would be a long, arduous, and expensive task as this model has the 2 mini cats and a third below...
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:56 AM   #4
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no i haven't, nor would I personally ever put anything like that in my vehicles. You can have the cats tested or checked to determine which ones(s) are actually bad before replacing all of them.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Sarge View Post
Before I even got to the part where you discussed the codes for the bad cat, I was thinking cat must be going bad given everything you have already done. Seems a bit premature given the mileage but they do go bad and that will likely be your fix. Hope you get it sorted out soon. A flashing CEL is always an exhaust related warning.
I'm going to disagree with you. A flashing CEL is a result of a misfire severe enough to cause damage to the cat convertors. Which had happened. A bad cat will not cause the light to flash. His code is a result of the misfire which damaged the cat.

To the op. Double check your spark plugs. I have personally not had any good luck with Champion plugs. They could be causing your misfire. Go spend the money on factory replacement plugs. They're not much more in cost and you'll know they're compatible with your Jeep.

It also wouldn't hurt to have a compression and leak down check performed. That will help isolate and properly diagnose your problems without guessing.

Good luck!

Edit... Stay away from miracle additive "cures". They are good at cleaning your wallet. Not much else.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:38 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 03ShaleGreenSahara View Post
I'm going to disagree with you. A flashing CEL is a result of a misfire severe enough to cause damage to the cat convertors. Which had happened. A bad cat will not cause the light to flash. His code is a result of the misfire which damaged the cat. To the op. Double check your spark plugs. I have personally not had any good luck with Champion plugs. They could be causing your misfire. Go spend the money on factory replacement plugs. They're not much more in cost and you'll know they're compatible with your Jeep. It also wouldn't hurt to have a compression and leak down check performed. That will help isolate and properly diagnose your problems without guessing. Good luck! Edit... Stay away from miracle additive "cures". They are good at cleaning your wallet. Not much else.
I stand corrected. Did a little research on this as well and came up with this.

" A blinking light indicates a problem that needs immediate attention. In late-model cars, a blinking light usually indicates an engine misfire so severe that unburned fuel is being dumped into the exhaust system, where it can quickly damage the catalytic converter. If that happens, you should reduce power and have the car or truck looked at as soon as possible."
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:57 AM   #7
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I believe that the Cat has been damaged while trying to fix the engine misfires, that all makes sense. However, the misfiring engine is still an issue and results in the car shuddering and not being able to be driven. Always at highway speed, almost always downward hill, usually with more gas in the tank... The spark plugs have been changed out as well as the wiring 3x so I highly doubt that even I could have that much bad luck out of the box.

- I will try and get a video of it doing it today and post to give a better idea of what is happening.

-I also found this recall and wondering if this could be part of the puzzle and if I would be eligible
**Item Affected: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM:INJECTORS
Date Announced: 4/15/2002

Description of Recall:
ON CERTAIN SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 4.0L ENGINE ONLY, THE DESIGN OF THE INTAKE AND EXHAUST MANIFOLDS COULD ALLOW DEBRIS TO ACCUMULATE AT THE #3 CYLINDER LOCATION.

Action Needed To Fix It:
DEALERS WILL INSTALL A MANIFOLD SHIELD TO MODIFY THE AIR FLOW CHARACTERISTICS AND TO PREVENT THE ACCUMULATION OF DEBRIS IN THE AREA OF THE #3 CYLINDER. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN MAY 13, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT DAIMLERCHRYSLER AT 1-800-853-1403.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:16 PM   #8
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Someone posted a youtube video discribing a similar problem and they said the crankshaft position sensor was the issue.. just replaced that now drove about 25 miles in the places and at the speeds that usually sets it off. No CEL as of yet but we will see...
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:53 PM   #9
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Take and loosen your cam position sensor and move it back a 1/16 of an inch counter clock wise.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:04 PM   #10
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Why? What does that do?
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:14 PM   #11
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It's the start for many of the reference volt signals. If it gets off it will throw many different types of CEL codes
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Old 10-29-2013, 06:12 AM   #12
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Great, thanks will do!
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:55 PM   #13
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I had engine missfires when one of the mini cats broke apart and clogged the hole. When I cleared up the whole the engine ran fine. I would recommend dropping your exhaust system and checking the mini cats out.
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Old 11-07-2013, 03:44 PM   #14
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Still trying to avoid taking the whole exhaust apart as living in the east it sees all seasons and a TON of salt. Needless to say there is a ton of rust.

ANYway CEL went off again and I got P0155... can someone tell me which 02 sensor that is exactly? I have this diagram maybe you could guide me on that?

http://www.cherokeeforum.com/attachm...2-91109768.jpg

I know its a cherokee picture but as close as i could find for easy instruction
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:14 PM   #15
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That code is for the heater circuit for the bank 2 sensor 1 O2 sensor. Number 2 in that picture.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:23 PM   #16
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Just a tip when you replace the sensor. If you have a lot of rust you will want to make sure to soak the sensor with penetrant. Use a O2 sensor socket and break it loose when the engine is cold. After you have broken it loose use only your hands to unscrew the sensor from the manifold. Again. Make sure the engine is cold. Preferably after its been sitting over night. If to use a tool such as a ratchet and wrench you run the chance of galling the threads and your chances of getting it out are pretty slim. Remember, you are only using the tool to break loose the sensor. Not remove it from the exhaust.

I'm an ASE certified tech with over twenty years experience removing O2 sensors and this has been the most successful method I've used.

Good luck in your repair.
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:50 PM   #17
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So the P0155 code has still been an issue but the pattern is that it only comes on when it is from a very cold start. usually if i let it run while still in park the CEL stays off. Colder mornings it doesn't matter. I don't think that this is the fault of the 02 sensor. I have heard that it was an under hood fuse that was the issue. I have also heard that it was a wiring issue. In either case I don't even know where to start looking. There are 2 o2 sensor fuses under the hood, a big bulky and a smaller one #15 i believe.

Please help, any and all suggestions welcome.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #18
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I would definitely checked your cats. You can shake them or tap them and listen for broken ceramic noises. If you hear any such noise, it is an indication of a broken cat. A broken cat will give you the problems that you are having too. I know because I had a broken cat. The dealership performed over $2000.00 dollars of repair on my Jeep, and they didn't even shake the cat. Instead, they did everything but check the cat, including changing the cat sensors, and a valve job. I took it to a muffler shop because I heard a slight noise under the car. After replacing the cat, all my troubles went away. I never go to dealerships anymore, if my vehicle is out of warranty.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:17 PM   #19
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banged the cats, all three. No noises and sounds pretty solid. I gave sucked up about 2 cans of seafoam through the vacuum hose, and sprayed cleaner into the throttle body as I bought the car (w/ aggressive tread) from NYC so not much highway driving which seamed to clear up most of my issues. A much smoother ride. Now almost guaranteed to get the p0155 from it sitting for a cold night. Wondering if i should insulate the wiring on the sensor but somehow doubt that would help.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #20
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banged the cats, all three. No noises and sounds pretty solid. I gave sucked up about 2 cans of seafoam through the vacuum hose, and sprayed cleaner into the throttle body as I bought the car (w/ aggressive tread) from NYC so not much highway driving which seamed to clear up most of my issues. A much smoother ride. Now almost guaranteed to get the p0155 from it sitting for a cold night. Wondering if i should insulate the wiring on the sensor but somehow doubt that would help.
Well, it is good to know that you checked your cats. I would find a trusted mechanic and take it to him. "Trusted" is the key word. This is not a mechanic where you take a vehicle in for one thing and two weeks later, you have a different problem. I've gone to mechanics and later my brakes were going bad. I noticed that someone has sliced my brake lines.

My mechanic is awesome. He is cheap, because his shop is always full.
He has the computers, and he properly diagnoses my problems, and I never come back with the same problem. If you find a trusted mechanic and get it fixed right the first time, it will save you money, throwing money at the same problem.

For example, my mechanic rebuilt my tranny for $1200.00. I had a leak, and he fixed it immediately, free of charge. Aamco transmission wanted $2500.00.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:28 PM   #21
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I completely agree. Although I trust my mechanic, i do not think he has the know how to fix my problems. He has fixed many things for free just because he suggested something that was the wrong path, but I think he is just out of ideas here... Hence me asking the forums.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:40 PM   #22
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I completely agree. Although I trust my mechanic, i do not think he has the know how to fix my problems. He has fixed many things for free just because he suggested something that was the wrong path, but I think he is just out of ideas here... Hence me asking the forums.
Oops, my bad. I should have said a "good" trusted mechanic. I think you need to find a better mechanic, and hopefully one that you can trust. Maybe, you need someone who specializes in electrical problems. If my mechanic senses that I have an electrical issue, he immediately refers me to an electrical specialist. I guess it was no harm in trying to get lucky here. This forum has helped me fix many problems that would have cost me serious labor costs.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:48 PM   #23
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So the P0155 code has still been an issue but the pattern is that it only comes on when it is from a very cold start. usually if i let it run while still in park the CEL stays off. Colder mornings it doesn't matter. I don't think that this is the fault of the 02 sensor. I have heard that it was an under hood fuse that was the issue. I have also heard that it was a wiring issue. In either case I don't even know where to start looking. There are 2 o2 sensor fuses under the hood, a big bulky and a smaller one #15 i believe.

Please help, any and all suggestions welcome.
Based on what you're describing I'm willing to bet you simply need a new O2 sensor.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #24
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Even though I just replaced all just about a month ago?
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:17 PM   #25
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It's been known to happen. But before you go and throw more money and parts at it have it properly diagnosed and repaired by a reputable mechanic. That way if the repair doesn't work it's on him to make it right.

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