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Old 04-03-2014, 05:40 PM   #1
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Tj Starter rubbing on flywheel when I clutch in

Like the title says.. When I press the clutch it pushes the flywheel too far back which ends up grinding the starter.. I recently bought this Wrangler, it's a 4.0l 5 speed.. Previous owner says its a new engine, also the clutch was replaced a couple months ago.. I bought a new starter and tried shimming it but then the peej wouldnt start.. Why is this happening? Also the clutch pedal is a little higher than the brake pedal.. is that normal? Can someone please help, I tried searching but it didn't work out too well.. If anyone can help or post a link that could that would be awesome...

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:44 PM   #2
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I'm confused. The clutch shouldn't move the fly wheel at all.

Pedal height should be same. Your brake pedal may be low or vice versa. Check all the pedal linkages under the dash for broken or out of place parts.

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Old 04-03-2014, 05:45 PM   #3
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I'm confused. The clutch shouldn't move the fly wheel at all.
It moves it like 3-5mm.. idk what the problem could be.. This is my first non-honda vehicle...

Also i did check all the pedals and fluids and they are all good..
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:01 PM   #4
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My guess is your starter is not working right. You say pushing the clutch makes it grind. There should be a safety switch that when working properly will only allow you to turn the starter with the clutch pressed. This safety can be by passed by removing the 20 amp fuse from f20. Then you should be able to engage the starter with the clutch out. Have it in neutral for safety. My bet is it will still just grind.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:08 PM   #5
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My guess is your starter is not working right. You say pushing the clutch makes it grind. There should be a safety switch that when working properly will only allow you to turn the starter with the clutch pressed. This safety can be by passed by removing the 20 amp fuse from f20. Then you should be able to engage the starter with the clutch out. Have it in neutral for safety. My bet is it will still just grind.

It grinds while I am driving... like if i downshift or sometimes upshift then the starter gets grinded.. I had my brother push the clutch in when the starter was out, i could see the actually flywheel moving.. also I tried the bypassing the safety switch..
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:17 PM   #6
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So this was happening before the new starter and was the reason for buying a new starter?
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:25 PM   #7
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The flywheel shouldn't move...! It's a solid mass of steel that's bolted to the end of the crankshaft. If you see the flywheel moving forward and back, remove the transmission and tighten the flywheel bolts to spec.

It is either moving as you say, in which case you have to remove the transmission, or you are confused about it moving, and the noise you are hearing is actually a bad throw out bearing, in which case you have to remove the transmission also.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:27 PM   #8
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So this was happening before the new starter and was the reason for buying a new starter?
Yes exactly.. So when i bought it and was driving it home i hear a grinding/squeaky noise which i thought was the exhaust.. after i got the exhaust taken care of the noise was still there... Then my jeep key broke in half, so i had a new one made.. As i tried to start it, the starter wouldnt engage... so we pushed the jeep down the road and clutch started it.. Then i put the new starter on.. only to have the same problem still.. the old starter is grinded quite a bit, and the teeth on the flywheel is a little grinded
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:30 PM   #9
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The flywheel shouldn't move...! It's a solid mass of steel that's bolted to the end of the crankshaft. If you see the flywheel moving forward and back, remove the transmission and tighten the flywheel bolts to spec.

It is either moving as you say, in which case you have to remove the transmission, or you are confused about it moving, and the noise you are hearing is actually a bad throw out bearing, in which case you have to remove the transmission also.
trust me the flywheel is legit moving when the clutch is pressed in... my question is if the flywheel is loose or maybe the wrong one.. How could the jeep still drive normally? How long does it take to remove the tranny? I've done a couple honda tranny swaps but never anything else
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:37 PM   #10
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This is way out in left field but have a friend push and release the clutch while you observe the crankshaft pulley on the front of the engine, if it moves forward when the clutch is pushed then the end thrust bearing on the crankshaft is shot and will require crank removal to correct hope this isn't the case. good luck
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:38 PM   #11
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The flywheel shouldn't move...! It's a solid mass of steel that's bolted to the end of the crankshaft. If you see the flywheel moving forward and back, remove the transmission and tighten the flywheel bolts to spec. It is either moving as you say, in which case you have to remove the transmission, or you are confused about it moving, and the noise you are hearing is actually a bad throw out bearing, in which case you have to remove the transmission also.
X2 the flywheel shouldn't move. I had an autozone throwout bearing fail in 5 months too. If you don't know what kind of clutch is in it when you pull it to torque the flywheel and inspect the bearing I would drop 100 bucks and put a LuK in. LuK 05-065 Clutch Kit by LuK http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CICYZ4/..._SiEptb1FW0PY0

It comes with a new pilot bearing too which is probably toast if your flywheel is moving.

You can download a free FSM with all the torque values and stuff at www.jeepslimited.com
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:39 PM   #12
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This is way out in left field but have a friend push and release the clutch while you observe the crankshaft pulley on the front of the engine, if it moves forward when the clutch is pushed then the end thrust bearing on the crankshaft is shot and will require crank removal to correct hope this isn't the case. good luck
A great thought as well. X2 way easier to check than dropping a tranny too.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:40 PM   #13
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trust me the flywheel is legit moving when the clutch is pressed in... my question is if the flywheel is loose or maybe the wrong one.. How could the jeep still drive normally? How long does it take to remove the tranny? I've done a couple honda tranny swaps but never anything else
Probably about 3 hours (maybe a little more if you haven't done it before) to get it out if you have help and the tools on hand. About the same to reinstall...+/-

Majnoon has a video.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:41 PM   #14
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Probably about 3 hours (maybe a little more if you haven't done it before) to get it out if you have help and the tools on hand. About the same to reinstall...+/- Majnoon has a video.
http://youtu.be/BS4abyp0zfk
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:48 PM   #15
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This is way out in left field but have a friend push and release the clutch while you observe the crankshaft pulley on the front of the engine, if it moves forward when the clutch is pushed then the end thrust bearing on the crankshaft is shot and will require crank removal to correct hope this isn't the case. good luck
if it is the thrust bearings would that mean the motor is shot?
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:48 PM   #16
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Probably about 3 hours (maybe a little more if you haven't done it before) to get it out if you have help and the tools on hand. About the same to reinstall...+/-

Majnoon has a video.
damn thats awhile any tips?
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:50 PM   #17
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Awesome, you have a video lol any tips with the install? and yeah the luk clutch is probably what I'm gonna buy..
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:56 PM   #18
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Awesome, you have a video lol any tips with the install? and yeah the luk clutch is probably what I'm gonna buy..
I have a video also that lists the tools you need, but the quality doesn't compare to Majnoon's...if it helps out it's here:

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:13 PM   #19
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One big tip narrow down what is happening first

If the crank moves forward might as well yank the engine with or without tranny

If the flywheel is really moving without crankshaft moving when you engage clutch which makes ZERO logical sense to me especially as depressing clutch could only press if more firmly against crank where it belongs yet you say that messes up starter / ring gear engagement then and only then launch on the tranny removal

So basically get a better plan before you start down that road or more simply aim then fire not fire then aim
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:33 PM   #20
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Maybe your seeing the clutch disk move and not the flywheel.It almost sounds like your starter is randomly engaging while your driving maybe ignition switch or something hooked up wrong.I really don't think it would be possible that the crank could move without destroying the engine.If the flywheel were loose it should be making a lot of noise.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:39 PM   #21
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Maybe your seeing the clutch disk move and not the flywheel.
The only part you would be able to see looking in the starter hole would be the flywheel.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:48 PM   #22
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The only part you would be able to see looking in the starter hole would be the flywheel.
Your probably right Water Dog but I can't see the flywheel moving that far in to actually engage the starter.Sounds more like the starter is engaging the flywheel while the motor is running.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:38 PM   #23
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If the crankshaft damper is moving forward when the clutch peddle is pushed down then there is too much clearance at the thrust bearing.
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:18 PM   #24
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I'm really interested to see what this one is. Some clues though. Previous owner says engine is new means the flywheel has been off recently. It could have incorrectly torqued bolts that have come loose. Still, my guess is the thrust bearing from a bad rebuild. OP, do you have any documentation on the "NEW" engine. It might come in handy.
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:18 PM   #25
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Pull the starter, and with the clutch released, stick your finger (or screw driver) in the starter hole and see if you can move the flywheel forward and back by hand.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:09 PM   #26
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Pull the starter, and with the clutch released, stick your finger (or screw driver) in the starter hole and see if you can move the flywheel forward and back by hand.
I couldnt move the flywheel with a screwdriver... i tried spinning it, moving it back or forth.. nothing it just doesnt budge
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:11 PM   #27
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I'm really interested to see what this one is. Some clues though. Previous owner says engine is new means the flywheel has been off recently. It could have incorrectly torqued bolts that have come loose. Still, my guess is the thrust bearing from a bad rebuild. OP, do you have any documentation on the "NEW" engine. It might come in handy.
No documentation at all... he just says brand new everything.. I tried contacting him.. he says the noise is the exhaust rattling.. Even tho i sent him pics of the starter being grinded
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:14 PM   #28
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One big tip narrow down what is happening first

If the crank moves forward might as well yank the engine with or without tranny

If the flywheel is really moving without crankshaft moving when you engage clutch which makes ZERO logical sense to me especially as depressing clutch could only press if more firmly against crank where it belongs yet you say that messes up starter / ring gear engagement then and only then launch on the tranny removal

So basically get a better plan before you start down that road or more simply aim then fire not fire then aim
I agree with you about checking everything before i drop a clutch kit.. but im gonna do a couple other checks before i make that mission
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:18 PM   #29
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If some one used bolt clamping force to pull a tranny onto the engine you could have significant damage as the system was not designed for that kind of axial load
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:23 PM   #30
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I couldnt move the flywheel with a screwdriver... i tried spinning it, moving it back or forth.. nothing it just doesnt budge
If you couldn't move it with a screw driver, I really doubt that it is loose (moving).

I would do some research and find out if the starter (year?) is compatible with the engine year. You said the engine had been changed. Maybe there was a change in starter designs somewhere along the line.

In your original post you mentioned that the flywheel was too far back, but then went on to say that you shimmed the starter out (which would put the starter farther forward) or just opposite of what needed to be accomplished.

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