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Old 08-06-2010, 04:49 PM   #1
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tj won't start

So I've read through a few of the other threads about jeeps not starting, but haven't solved my problem yet.

I parked the jeep a week ago, and when I went to start it today it just keeps turning over trying to start, but won't.

The other threads suggested swapping the horn relay with the fuel relay, which I did and both worked. Then I read that I should test to see if I'm getting spark, which it does not appear that I am. I replaced the coil but it still won't start. Next I read that the CPS (on the transmission bell housing) was probably bad, so I replaced that too, but it still won't start.

Recently I replaced the cap and rotor, wires and plugs. There is gas in it, though not much. And it was running perfectly before I parked it last week.

The only previous problem I had was I hit a large bump in the road and the engine died, but when I pressed the clutch in and out it came back to life, leaving the CEL on with the codes (four) PO201 - PO204 which are injector malfunction codes for each cylinder. I reset the codes and everything was fine for two weeks or so, until now.

Any ideas?? I'm

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Old 08-06-2010, 05:02 PM   #2
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Try cycling the key on-off-on (but not to the Start position) 8-10 times to get the fuel pump so there is a guaranteed amount of fuel in the fuel rail before actually turning the key to the Start position. You'll hear the fuel pump turn on for a second then shut off each time. Do that 8-10 times and then try starting it and get back with if that helped.

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Old 08-06-2010, 08:55 PM   #3
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Jerry, thanks for the suggestion, but it still wont start. I do hear the fuel pump cycling on though.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:43 PM   #4
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A few of my neighbors saw that my jeep wouldn't start today, and every one of them mentioned that we had a really bad storm yesterday with extremely heavy rain. I don't know that this matters, but it might.

Thanks again for helping!!
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:27 AM   #5
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So I'm going to shoot in the dark and replace the distributor today. As far as I can tell it's still not getting fire, so unless someone thinks this is pointless, it seems like the next logical step to me.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:00 PM   #6
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Yeah that didn't work either. New distributor and it still won't start. I'm out of ideas...can anyone tell me what I should try next?
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:28 AM   #7
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Hit a bump and got injector codes??? What year is your Jeep. I am working off 03-06 info.

Had "A little" gas when parked? You sure you are getting fuel at the fuel rail?

Check the connections at all your injectors and check the wire harness for pinches or rub throughs.

Swap out the ASD relay (supplies power to the Injectors) and the PCM controls the ground.

Check your fuses.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:40 AM   #8
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Hit a bump and got injector codes??? What year is your Jeep. I am working off 03-06 info.

Had "A little" gas when parked? You sure you are getting fuel at the fuel rail?

Check the connections at all your injectors and check the wire harness for pinches or rub throughs.

Swap out the ASD relay (supplies power to the Injectors) and the PCM controls the ground.

Check your fuses.
It's a 97 with 2.5L. Low on fuel when I parked it, around 1/8 of a tank but was running fine. I haven't checked the fuel rail/injectors yet, mainly because I'm not sure how to check them. I will visually inspect them for pinches etc today, thanks for that tip!!

Regarding the asd relay, I haven't swapped that one yet, but I did swap the fuel pump relay with the horn and verified both worked. I'll swap the asd with the pcm today and let you know.

Thanks a million for the ideas!!!

If this doesn't work, I'm thinking of getting a new computer for it. Daveys has one for $125. Any thoughts on that being the problem? Also, even after the new distributor, it still isn't getting spark.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:46 AM   #9
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It's a 97 with 2.5L. Low on fuel when I parked it, around 1/8 of a tank but was running fine. I haven't checked the fuel rail/injectors yet, mainly because I'm not sure how to check them. I will visually inspect them for pinches etc today, thanks for that tip!!

Regarding the asd relay, I haven't swapped that one yet, but I did swap the fuel pump relay with the horn and verified both worked. I'll swap the asd with the pcm today and let you know.

Thanks a million for the ideas!!!

If this doesn't work, I'm thinking of getting a new computer for it. Daveys has one for $125. Any thoughts on that being the problem? Also, even after the new distributor, it still isn't getting spark.
Not the PCM relay. If the ASD is bad and you give to the PCM (which runs everything) then you will get the same result. If anything get a new replacement relay or 2 and keep them in the glove box. Always good to have a "Known Good" relay to use in testing.

As for checking the injector connections, just unplug and plug back in. Even a wiggle (just like it sounds, wiggle the connection) test would be good.

Stop throwing parts at it. It gets expensive. Find the problem.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:52 AM   #10
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Oh yeah...

Fuel rail - I am not sure with yours, but the fuel rail should have a schrader valve (just like a tire valve stem) on it for testing fuel pressure. Take a small key and depress the valve core after key on and see if it squirts fuel (NOTE - if working properly 35-60PSI. Stand back or cover with a rag/your hand to keep from getting a shower)
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:51 AM   #11
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Not the PCM relay. If the ASD is bad and you give to the PCM (which runs everything) then you will get the same result. If anything get a new replacement relay or 2 and keep them in the glove box. Always good to have a "Known Good" relay to use in testing.

As for checking the injector connections, just unplug and plug back in. Even a wiggle (just like it sounds, wiggle the connection) test would be good.

Stop throwing parts at it. It gets expensive. Find the problem.
Got it. I assumed the pcm and asd relay were identical parts, like some of the others. I've had relay problems in past jeeps, so I know they can be the cause but I didn't think of it in this case. I'll find a spare and test it out.

Regarding finding the problem, I'm trying. There are only so many things "no spark" can be caused by, and I'm trying to narrow it down. Plugs/wires/cap&rotor were replaced two months ago so they're fine. I bought a new coil but that didn't fix it so I returned it. I think the CPS was going bad anyhow, so I replaced that and left it in. No idea how to test the distributor so I just replaced it. It didn't fix anything, but it's too much of a pain in the a$$ to take back out. Everything else electric is working, so I was thinking...there's not much left besides the computer. But the relays could be the cause, thanks a million for pointing me in that direction!!!

Also, I'll verify that there's fuel in the lines later today. Thanks for that tip!
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:05 AM   #12
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Take the computer and get it checked, the same thing happened to mine, mine wasn't even throwing codes it just wouldn't start.
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:23 AM   #13
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Take the computer and get it checked, the same thing happened to mine, mine wasn't even throwing codes it just wouldn't start.
Same here, no codes and everything seems to be working properly, but it won't start. Where do I take it to get it checked? Dealership? And was your problem with the computer?

Thanks!
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:46 AM   #14
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OK, I swapped relays between horn/fuel/asd in different combinations, but it still wont start. I also poured a bit of gas into the throttle body but that made no difference
As far as I can tell Teresa us still no spark. Any thoughts?
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:05 PM   #15
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"bad storm yesterday with extremely heavy rain" Hmm...

Have you checked the computer connectors for moisture? Pull them loose one at a time and blow them dry with canned air (get it at Walmart) then smear some wheel bearing grease on them (to prevent future moisture trouble) and plug them back in.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:07 PM   #16
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At this point, you're left with probably a bad camshaft position sensor that is located inside the distributor housing, or a bad ECM (engine computer). I would try swapping the camshaft position sensor at this point. Like the crankshaft position sensor, the engine won't run with a bad camshaft position sensor either.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:11 PM   #17
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Autovalue (canada) or Autozone,Pepboys or any other good parts place can check it for free. The dealer will probably cost an arm and leg like all other things at the dealer.Make some calls.And yes that is what is was in my Jeep, replaced the computer and it fired right up.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
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"bad storm yesterday with extremely heavy rain" Hmm...

Have you checked the computer connectors for moisture? Pull them loose one at a time and blow them dry with canned air (get it at Walmart) then smear some wheel bearing grease on them (to prevent future moisture trouble) and plug them back in.
Never use bearing grease! Get some proper Die-Electric Silicone Compound.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:24 PM   #19
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Check to see if your rotor is actualy turning when its cranking. Sounds stupid but could have stripped dist. drive gear.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:29 PM   #20
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"Never use bearing grease! Get some proper Die-Electric Silicone Compound"

I've used wheel bearing grease for years with no trouble on everything from tail light sockets to computers on dozens of vehicles.

Wheel bearing grease is soap based (check the can) and will not cause problems, now lithium automotive grease (the light yellow stuff for door hinges and strikers), well now that stuff is metal based and bad news around electric circuits.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:36 PM   #21
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"Never use bearing grease! Get some proper Die-Electric Silicone Compound"

I've used wheel bearing grease for years with no trouble on everything from tail light sockets to computers on dozens of vehicles.

Wheel bearing grease is soap based (check the can) and will not cause problems, now lithium automotive grease (the light yellow stuff for door hinges and strikers), well now that stuff is metal based and bad news around electric circuits.
You may have used wheel bearing grease for years but that still doesn't make it the right stuff to use to seal electrical connectors. It's not. Dielectric grease is the right stuff to use to seal any electrical connector. And yes, we realize what wheel bearing grease is made from.
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:48 PM   #22
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You may have used wheel bearing grease for years but that still doesn't make it the right stuff to use to seal electrical connectors. It's not. Dielectric grease is the right stuff to use to seal any electrical connector. And yes, we realize what wheel bearing grease is made from.
Sorry for irking some people, didn't mean too - but as an electrical engineer with well over 30 years experience in aerospace I stand by what I said, use wheel bearing grease.

Save the silicone stuff for spark plug boots and other high temp applications
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:51 PM   #23
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As a very old EE grad myself, I'm surprised that any educated person such as yourself could persist in insisting that wheel bearing grease is a better electrical connector sealant than dielectric grease is... which was developed specifically for that purpose.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:02 PM   #24
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As a very old EE grad myself, I'm surprised that any educated person such as yourself could persist in insisting that wheel bearing grease is a better electrical connector sealant than dielectric grease is... which was developed specifically for that purpose.
Wow, are you having a bad day, or are you always three feet down peoples' throats?

As a new member I thought this forum would be more friendly than this.

Logging off and taking the Rubicon out for some fun...
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:07 PM   #25
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Wow, are you having a bad day, or are you always three feet down peoples' throats?

As a new member I thought this forum would be more friendly than this.
Nope, not having a bad day at all. Just realize that you can't expect to be agreed with 100% of the time by everyone.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:10 PM   #26
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At this point, you're left with probably a bad camshaft position sensor that is located inside the distributor housing, or a bad ECM (engine computer). I would try swapping the camshaft position sensor at this point. Like the crankshaft position sensor, the engine won't run with a bad camshaft position sensor either.
The new distributor I installed yesterday came with a new pick-up plate (or camshaft position sensor), so that is new as well. I'm thinking it has to be the computer at this point. Do you know of a way to test the computer or do I have to take it somewhere?

Thanks again!!
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:15 PM   #27
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I know of no easy way to test the engine computer. If it does end up needing to be replaced, they can be found on eBay for way less $$$ than the dealer sells them for.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:31 PM   #28
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K, I can't think of anything else, and neither can anyone I know, so I ordered an ECM online. I'll let you know if this fixed it.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:42 PM   #29
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Re: the wheel bearing grease -
The hydrocarbons in wheel bearing grease can and will dissolve some of the plastic connectors (also made of hydrocarbons) used in the electrical circuits. It works OK, but sometimes if you ever need to disconnect those connectors all you have is a gooey mush with wires. Seen it too many times.

Dielectric grease is made specifically for electrical connections - and isn't expensive. A tube will last you for years.

This is a friendly place - as long as advice brought to the table has merit and isn't destructive.

The Factory Service Manual has fault trees that help step you through the diagnostic process for this kind of problem (not Chiltons or fake ones.) The OP has spent far more than the cost of the manual in parts. On Ebay you can get the FSM on a CD for cheap - $30?
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:42 PM   #30
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Interesting, I have never seen wheel bearing grease harm any plastic (hydrocarbon) connector parts, not in scores of applications on cars, trucks, and boats. Perhaps because like plastic gasoline tanks (hydrocarbon) which are not harmed by gasoline (hydrocarbon), because the tanks are made to be hydrocarbon safe, so are the electrical connectors under the hood of cars and trucks which must survive for years in an environment of hot oil and gasoline (hydrocarbons).

All I was attempting to do was share my thoughts on a possible solution to someones problem based on many years of first hand experience, but a few people disagree with me and that is fine. Meaningful disagreement is the essence of intellectual growth.

But do not call me destructive. You really don't know me that well. ;-)

Can we move on now, please.

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