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Old 12-07-2010, 11:08 PM   #1
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Tummy Tuck

When I did my 3.25 lift on my ruby I had to do a t-case drop because of vibrations.

Instead of doing the expensive sye and rear shaft can I get away with a motor mount lift? If not what's the best and cheapest way to get that shovel of a skid plate higher? Essentially your differentials will be lowest points and can only clear it with bigger tires.

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Old 12-07-2010, 11:14 PM   #2
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Not the cheapest, but....

Since you have a Rubicon model, your TJ is equipped with a fixed output. All you'd need is a CV flange shaft like the 1310 model Tom Woods offers and some adjustable upper rear arms to get it squared away.

A motor mount lift might help you in your current situation, but I wouldn't use it as an end all.

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Old 12-07-2010, 11:16 PM   #3
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The rubicon's NV241OR/NV241J doesn't need a Slip Yoke Eliminator...just look at the driveshaft...it doesn't have a Slip Yoke to eliminate. Note for the USA TJ's, NV241OR = NV241J, one in the same, 4:1.

That doesn't mean you won't need a new double cardan rear driveshaft though. Vibes from a lift are caused by u-joint binding due to incorrect pinion/driveshaft angle. That is corrected by adding a DOUBLE CARDAN driveshaft (also called a CV shaft) and aligning the pinion angle with adjustable control arms. In the case of the NV231J, that means you need to convert the slip yoke output to a fixed yoke output. In the case of the NV241J/OR, it has a fixed flange output, so you only need to replace the single cardan driveshaft with a double cardan driveshaft.

Read this: What is a CV shaft and why do I want one? - JeepForum.com
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:47 PM   #4
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^ I beat you and your fancy talking.
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Old 12-07-2010, 11:49 PM   #5
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^^hehehe another one bites the dust.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 View Post
The rubicon's NV241OR/NV241J doesn't need a Slip Yoke Eliminator...just look at the driveshaft...it doesn't have a Slip Yoke to eliminate. Note for the USA TJ's, NV241OR = NV241J, one in the same, 4:1.

That doesn't mean you won't need a new double cardan rear driveshaft though. Vibes from a lift are caused by u-joint binding due to incorrect pinion/driveshaft angle. That is corrected by adding a DOUBLE CARDAN driveshaft (also called a CV shaft) and aligning the pinion angle with adjustable control arms. In the case of the NV231J, that means you need to convert the slip yoke output to a fixed yoke output. In the case of the NV241J/OR, it has a fixed flange output, so you only need to replace the single cardan driveshaft with a double cardan driveshaft.

Read this: What is a CV shaft and why do I want one? - JeepForum.com
Heck of a post dude. I think that should be a sticky in the TJ sub forum. Very informative.

I understand that I don't need an SYE but that I need a DC shaft in the rear. Now what about upper adjustable control arms? Are those required or just optional and makes things "better".

I read that by doing the t-case drop I pulled the t-case down in the rear and up in front causing a little pressure on the front end. I have a pinion seal leaking in the front and didn't start until after the lift but the lift might not be the culprit. It is an 04 and the expanding and contracting a little with outside temperatures might affect. It only has 44k on it or just the fact that it isn't wanting to do its job.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:07 AM   #7
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^ I beat you and your fancy talking.
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Originally Posted by yjkid95 View Post
^^hehehe another one bites the dust.
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalis5509 View Post
I understand that I don't need an SYE but that I need a DC shaft in the rear. Now what about upper adjustable control arms? Are those required or just optional and makes things "better".
without adjustable uppers, how are you going to adjust your pinion angle?

See original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 View Post
Vibes from a lift are caused by u-joint binding due to incorrect pinion/driveshaft angle. That is corrected by adding a DOUBLE CARDAN driveshaft (also called a CV shaft) and aligning the pinion angle with adjustable control arms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalis5509 View Post
I read that by doing the t-case drop I pulled the t-case down in the rear and up in front causing a little pressure on the front end.
not sure what you mean here...the t-case drop is a method to align the rear pinion angle for a single cardan driveshaft. with a single cardan driveshaft, the input and output ends must be parallel, or at least not offset by more than 3 degrees. the front driveshaft is a double cardan and can tolerate 6 or even 7 degrees of caster with your 3.25" lift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalis5509 View Post
I have a pinion seal leaking in the front and didn't start until after the lift but the lift might not be the culprit. It is an 04 and the expanding and contracting a little with outside temperatures might affect. It only has 44k on it or just the fact that it isn't wanting to do its job.
Its far more likely the pinion seal just went out. Or that you overfilled the diff, and the increased pressure from expanding oil caused the seal to blow.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 View Post
Huh?


without adjustable uppers, how are you going to adjust your pinion angle?

See original post:



not sure what you mean here...the t-case drop is a method to align the rear pinion angle for a single cardan driveshaft. with a single cardan driveshaft, the input and output ends must be parallel, or at least not offset by more than 3 degrees. the front driveshaft is a double cardan and can tolerate 6 or even 7 degrees of caster with your 3.25" lift


Its far more likely the pinion seal just went out. Or that you overfilled the diff, and the increased pressure from expanding oil caused the seal to blow.
I think I meant the caster angle changed in the front. It didn't say anything about degree of angle that the front allows for. Basically it said that the front would be slightly off.
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YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE DUCT TAPE.

IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:53 PM   #9
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When you go to adjust the new upper rear ca are you talking about shortening it or lengthening it?
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mortalis5509 View Post
I think I meant the caster angle changed in the front. It didn't say anything about degree of angle that the front allows for. Basically it said that the front would be slightly off.
caster is a property of alignment. changing caster changes pinion angle on the front. with a LP axle you adjust your lower front control arms to reach a happy medium between caster and pinion angle. what I said was at 3.25" of lift, this is a non-issue because the driveshaft is so long. In other words, you can run near stock caster with 3.25" of lift and still not run into pinion angle issues. In case you still don't understand, thats probably about 2.5-3 degrees more caster than 3.25" of lift with all stock arms. 3.25" of lift will normally put your around 4 degrees of caster.

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When you go to adjust the new upper rear ca are you talking about shortening it or lengthening it?
with the rear CV shaft, depending on the tire size you plan on running, you actually want to shorten the lowers and extend the uppers.

running 35's on stock rear 15.75" LCAs will cause interference with the back of the wheelwell at full stuff. you either need to trim it, or pull the lowers forward. only extending the uppers will extend your wheelbase some...meaning it pushes the wheel further torward the rear of the wheelwell. not an issue if you have 31s...but for 35s it is, and it can be for 33s.

note both the uppers and lowers control wheelbase in real life. some will say lowers adjust wheelbase, while uppers adjust pinion angle. thats a good rule of thumb, but not truely correct, unless you have the lower control arm mounts rewelded directly below the vertical axis of the axle tube. you also run into clearance issues with the gas tank if you push the axle backwards too much.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:43 PM   #11
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Thanks for the great info! Makes sense. And great news that I've got a rubicon so I don't need an sye. I'm going for a tummy tuck eventually and this type of thread is great
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:00 PM   #12
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Planning all what I m going to need. I have an 03 rubicon with a 3 inch lift and t case drop. I just want to make sure I have it all right before I begin buying stuff.

What im going to buy in order

1. JKS 1.25 body lift, with 1 inch motor mount lift.

2. tom woods rear drive shaft, (is this correct for my 03 rubicon?)
Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts 52301 910R - Tom Woods Rear CV Drive Shaft for 03-06 Jeep® Wrangler TJ Rubicon with 2-6" of Lift - Quadratec

SYE. Do I need it for rubicon?, I read in a thread somewhere that the rubicon doesnt need the rear shaft output lengthened . not quite 100% sure on this

3. rokmen tranny/engine skid.

my t case drop is 1.25 inch , Getting rid of it while tucking everything in is going to be great. thanks in advance!



...one other question, when installing the new skid does the current skid hold the tranny up? In other words is it easy to do this install or am I going to have to resort to paying someone., Ive got tools, jacks, jack stands , etc.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:25 PM   #13
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1. JKS 1.25 body lift, with 1 inch motor mount lift.
pretty straight forward, search Rokmen's videos on youtube, pretty much all the instructions you'll need.

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Originally Posted by bobjenkins View Post
looks right. i wouldn't buy a shaft until everythings installed tho...measure and order after everythings installed.

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Originally Posted by bobjenkins View Post
SYE. Do I need it for rubicon?, I read in a thread somewhere that the rubicon doesnt need the rear shaft output lengthened . not quite 100% sure on this
Did you read this thread? over even the post directly above your post? Do those things, then answer your own question.

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3. rokmen tranny/engine skid.
Total lift height seen by t-case = t-case skid lift + suspension lift

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Originally Posted by bobjenkins View Post
...one other question, when installing the new skid does the current skid hold the tranny up? In other words is it easy to do this install or am I going to have to resort to paying someone., Ive got tools, jacks, jack stands , etc.
t-case skid holds up the transmission, t-case and half the exhaust. you'll need to support the transmission before dropping the skid. its easy stuff, you just need two floor jacks and at least 2 jack stands capable of reaching the frame. be prepared for spinning nutserts (be ready to remove and reinstall nutserts)
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:33 PM   #14
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pretty straight forward, search Rokmen's videos on youtube, pretty much all the instructions you'll need.


looks right. i wouldn't buy a shaft until everythings installed tho...measure and order after everythings installed.


Did you read this thread? over even the post directly above your post? Do those things, then answer your own question.


Total lift height seen by t-case = t-case skid lift + suspension lift


t-case skid holds up the transmission, t-case and half the exhaust. you'll need to support the transmission before dropping the skid. its easy stuff, you just need two floor jacks and at least 2 jack stands capable of reaching the frame. be prepared for spinning nutserts (be ready to remove and reinstall nutserts)
thanks again for the great info!

and nutserts!! I hate them, really looking forward to trying to get them off...

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