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What is the height difference on outboarded upper rear shock mounts?

7K views 17 replies 7 participants last post by  JDsDream 
#1 ·
I notice a number build threads and images show outboarded rear upper shock mounts, many using the Ford towers.

For some of my planning, I'm wondering what the approximate height difference is from the typical rear outboard mount I'm seeing (right behind the lower control arm, as low as it can go without hanging below the CA) between:

Center of lower shock mount to center of where stock bar pin centers would be
Center of lower shock mount to center of new upper mount on Ford towers

I understand this can vary a lot, I'm just wondering if this is, say, 2" extra height? No additional height? (relative to the point defined)

It'll help me out in deciding whether or not to use the Ford ones or custom make some that are high enough for my desires (or if they are entirely unreasonable).

Although I hate to mention it given my previous threads, my goal in this for the rear would be to fit Bilstein 7100 Short Body 12" travel shocks (or similar equivalent, I'm assuming other brands have some similar offerings) in the rear with no bumpstop extensions - which means I need at least a bit over 16" between the lower shock mounts and the upper mounts at full bump.

https://www.marlincrawler.com/suspension/shock-equip/bilstein-7100-series
 
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#2 ·
You're going about this ass-backwards....

1. Pick your springs and determine how much up travel/droop that you have by cycling the suspension from fully compressed to full droop.

2. Then measure what you have between the upper and lower bumps at ride height.

3. You will need to set your shock mounts according to these measurements and choose the shocks accordingly while considering the shock body length, compressed length, and fully extended.

4. You DO NOT want your shocks to be bottomed out or fully extended before your bumps are fully compressed and the springs are fully drooped out. Others may tell you that using the shocks to control droop is ok but I call BS.

5. You will need a lot of specialized tools ( welder, plasma cutter, grinders, etc) to get the rears out boarded correctly and not be a half assed hack job.

Look in my build thread towards the end and you'll see what I did. I used the long Gen Right towers and lower mounts and 12 in stroke Fox Resi shocks mounted to allow 6 in of up travel (bumps compressed) and 5 3/4 droop which is controlled by limiting straps. I did it myself and have the tools etc to do so.
The parts aint exactly cheap either..Yes it can be done cheaper, but the results may not be the same....
 
#3 ·
I notice a number build threads and images show outboarded rear upper shock mounts, many using the Ford towers. For some of my planning, I'm wondering what the approximate height difference is from the typical rear outboard mount I'm seeing (right behind the lower control arm, as low as it can go without hanging below the CA) between: Center of lower shock mount to center of where stock bar pin centers would be Center of lower shock mount to center of new upper mount on Ford towers I understand this can vary a lot, I'm just wondering if this is, say, 2" extra height? No additional height? (relative to the point defined) It'll help me out in deciding whether or not to use the Ford ones or custom make some that are high enough for my desires (or if they are entirely unreasonable). Although I hate to mention it given my previous threads, my goal in this for the rear would be to fit Bilstein 7100 Short Body 12" travel shocks (or similar equivalent, I'm assuming other brands have some similar offerings) in the rear with no bumpstop extensions - which means I need at least a bit over 16" between the lower shock mounts and the upper mounts at full bump. https://www.marlincrawler.com/suspension/shock-equip/bilstein-7100-series
Oh my god give it a rest 3 threads with the same stupid questions?
 
#5 ·
Is there not a way to ask a question here and get the actual question answered?

sduncan, I appreciate your opinion on my approach direction. However, the question still stands, and I'm looking for a distance measurement. In inches. Where the lower shock mount would be (right behind the lower control arms) to Ford tower shock mount at axle pushed to bumpstops. 16"? 14"? 17"?

sduncan; said:
1. Pick your springs and determine how much up travel/droop that you have by cycling the suspension from fully compressed to full droop.
I cannot select springs yet because I have not selected the type of spring - coilover, coils, or air springs. I asked a question asking how to compare them with respect to taking bumps fast, and yet not one post in the thread has even attempted to engage the question, it morphed onto building a trophy truck (never wanted to do so) or spending $100k on a TJ (nor that either). Since it's doubtful I'll get what I need out of the thread, this will take more research.

sduncan; said:
2. Then measure what you have between the upper and lower bumps at ride height.
I do have goals on this, though. I want ~12" of travel from stock bumpstops. I found the smallest Bilstein 12" shock compresses to 16", and I'm wondering if I can use the Ford towers to outboard (if they'll give me 16" between them and the lower mounts) or if I have to custom make some shock towers.

sduncan; said:
3. You will need to set your shock mounts according to these measurements and choose the shocks accordingly while considering the shock body length, compressed length, and fully extended.
Is there some reason Bilstein short bodies are automatically out? I have selected the shocks, considered their specifications, and am investigating fitment.

sduncan; said:
4. You DO NOT want your shocks to be bottomed out or fully extended before your bumps are fully compressed and the springs are fully drooped out. Others may tell you that using the shocks to control droop is ok but I call BS.
This will depend on spring selection. I haven't selected springs yet (let alone spring type).

sduncan; said:
5. You will need a lot of specialized tools ( welder, plasma cutter, grinders, etc) to get the rears out boarded correctly and not be a half assed hack job.
Understood.
 
#7 ·
If you're not sure you even want to stick with coils why are you worry about shocks and out boarding?

You really need to figure out a solid plan. Making a bunch of threads going off on random tangents to isn't going to get you very far. Figure out what your ultimate goal is, figure out a budget and figure out a plan. Then research, research some more then ask specific questions. You're not guaranteed to find all your answers, at some point you just have to get your hands dirty and gain some experience and figure things out for yourself.
 
#8 ·
I'm not asking the custom measurements on MY rig. Some people have outboarded using Ford shock towers and locating the rear mounts behind the control arms. For my current purposes, I just need an approximation of how much EXTRA height that gives.

LM = lower mount or any constant position behind lower control arm (just pick something)
OB = location of pin on outboard Ford shock towers
IB = location of where the pin would be on the stock mounts

I need:

(OB to LM) - (IB to LM) = ?"

I can't really tell for sure, but it looks like the Ford shock towers are higher than the stock mounts when welded in with their base at the bottom of the frame. I know this placement can vary, I'm just looking for some approximation - 2" higher? 1" higher? No extra height? What?

This would be a quickly measurable thing for anyone who has outboarded their rears with Ford shock towers. It would be much appreciated. I can draw a diagram if I need to.
 
#11 ·
Sure, but I'd have to make assumptions to get (height from bottom edge to estimated height to where pin center would be) even if I had the height spec and could trust it. Or I could make guesses from pictures.

This would take less than 5 minutes for someone who has done it.

Brandon, If all your answers are going to be 'go learn it for yourself' or insulting then what's the point of having a forum with text entry? Just make the entire thing read only and tell people to search. I'm here to learn. If you aren't interested in helping, move along.

While WranglerForum does offer a search feature, we do not require anyone to use it before posting questions. We realize the search tool is crude and it is the helpful nature of this community that makes WF what it is and sets it apart from the others. Likewise, if the only reply to a thread you can offer is to "go search" or "use the search" please don't. Telling users, mainly new users, to just search is rude and can drive them away, as the can feel belittled from such comments.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules
 
#12 ·
Again, pointless to you != pointless to me. Pointfulness is an inherently subjective property, like favorite song, so there is no objectively pointless. Thus, you cannot claim that they are pointless to me any more than you can argue with me about my favorite color.

I'm asking specific questions, and looking for specific answers.

I'm not receiving answers to the questions I am asking. If you aren't interested in answering them, fine. In this thread, I asked for a specific distance, in inches, from someone who has done this. No answer to that question has yet been posted.

Speaking of pointlessness, what's the point of posting in all my threads about the pointlessness of them, or complaining thereof? Ignore me in your CP if it bothers you to see my questions posted here.
 
#15 ·
No, that's perfect. I can figure out what I need from that, thank you.
 
#17 ·
Alright, so as an approximation, should anyone else be looking for roughly the same thing as I was:

The stock mount is just about parallel with the top of the frame rail, which is ~4". If these towers are used, and the bottom edge is mounted at the bottom of the frame rail, then it should permit a ~10" longer compressed length shock without additional bumpstop extensions when mounted to the same location as shown here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HZawCa9aOI

Thus, if the stock TJs run 12.25" compressed shocks, then on an outboarded setup with stock bumpstops you won't bottom out the shock with ~22" or less compressed shocks if the lower mount is placed like in the above video.

Thanks again!
 
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