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Old 02-29-2012, 02:25 PM   #91
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a picture is worth a thousand words. priceless. hahahahahahaha

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Old 02-29-2012, 02:34 PM   #92
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This makes me wonder why they even bothered making the 2.5?

The 4.0 is the master!

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Old 02-29-2012, 04:57 PM   #93
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Every single 2.5 I have had that isnt running has a rod out of the side or a hole.
So you bought 2.5L engines that you knew weren't running, that turned out to have a rod or hole in the side. That sounds like it's nothing of the engines fault, sounds like someone didn't inspect the product before buying it and is trying to make an invalid point based upon something they don't know.

The 4.0 is essentially the same engine as a 2.5L, just with 2 added cylinders. There is nothing wrong with the 2.5L engine. However, there are idiots out there that don't know how to take care of their engines. They are the kind of people who don't do maintenance, expecting the engine to run for over a million miles on 5 quarts of oil.

You sound like you have an incredibly biased opinion, therefore it is now null and voided.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:00 PM   #94
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Your right, I know nothing

If you would have paid just a little more attention to my post you would have gotten that I am in the jeep business. I buy, sell, rebuild, and part out jeeps.....therefore I buy junk ones as much as I can for as little as I can. Those I buy that are bad in a 2.5 have a broken rod almost all the time. So, that being said, how many have you owned? How many 4.0's have you seen blow up? Lets take a look at your credentials before smearing mine shall we?
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:03 PM   #95
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why?

Ibuildmbig? Can you make any determination as to why the 2.5 had the blown rod? Curious why as that typically wouldn't be a natural weak spot for a rod to blow on them. Wouldn't expect to see any more percentage wise than with the 4.0L.

Could be they were being over revved trying to push them too hard? Wonder if maybe the internal oiling design is starving #2 a little if it isn't maintained with oil changes and gets gunk in it?

Both engines are pretty much bullet proof and should run about the same reliability wise. Don't know the ratio of how many I6's there are in the field compared to the I4's. Maybe more people salvage (junk) the 2.5's and rebuld the 4.0's.

I've only had to replace one I6 and that was because the S-I-L ran it out of coolant. Can't blame the engine for that.

Anyway, would be interested in what you could tell as the reason for the rod being dumped.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:55 PM   #96
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Well that seems to be the question I have asked myself and others numerous times considering I have yet to see a 4.0 with a hole in the block. I have a guy from st louis that buys engine cores from me and he is calling me once every few weeks needing a rebuildable 2.5 block. I asked him last year why he never wanted a 4.0 and he said because he gets stuck with them and never gets a call for one....I found that interesting as well. He pays me 275 for a 2.5 longblock that isnt cracked or broken, but unfortunately I've only been able to sell him 1 in the last year and that was because it was full of water. I have a 92 right now that has 113K on it and it has a rod knocking in it and its 100 percent stock. I know that larger tires/gears will take its tole on them eventually, but that still doesnt explain why stock jeeps throw rods too. I can understand the argument that is the previous owners doing, but the same thing could be said about the 4.0's too, or any used vehicle for that matter. I have seen in person a cherokee with 492K on the odometer with the original mill in it, but have yet to own a 2.5 with over 170K on it that hasn't been changed.

For the argument that they are basically the same motor, that is a false statement. The 2.5 has a larger bore and shorter stroke than the 4.0. If you google 2.5 thrown rod you will see this is a big issue among owners.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:15 PM   #97
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design issue

Typically is there is a consistent failure mode there will be a design deficiency. Would be interesting to hear from operators who actually had the rod thrown on their vehicle.
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:18 AM   #98
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in my opinion a thrown rod would be an rpm issue......never thrown a rod on ANY motor i've had in their factory designed operating range. thrown PLENTY above 6500 rpm especially stock small block chevy rods. its a combination of not enough oil and the severe stress at those rpms. also in my experience shorter stroke motors are more prone to rod failure as the short stroke has more rpm potential.

im not defending the 2.5L by any means. its a p.o.s. engine that never had any business being in a 4x4 stock or otherwise. the fact that jeeps arent even available with a 4 cylinder anymore should be a clue as to their uselessness.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:22 AM   #99
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4.0 hands down
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:43 AM   #100
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I agree that the 2.5 is a decent engine, its not a boat anchor. If you use your jeep to drive around town and never go out on the highway, using it to off-road every now and then, you will be more than happy with it. But in any other situation the 4.0 beats the 2.5, not marginally but significantly. The 2.5 gives you less hp, less torque, a POS tranny(5 speed), and the one benifit 4cyl's usually have over 6cyl's which is mpg. The 4.0 either equals the mpg or surpasses it. The 2.5 is not a bad engine for a quick run into town or a run in the woods, but for most people it is not adaquite.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:30 PM   #101
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perspective

It is a matter of perspective. Those at both ends of the extreme are typically just trying to inflict their own personal perspective onto everyone else.

Those who denigrate the 4cyl, as well as those how call it the holy grail of engines, fall into the same category. They fall on the extremes of the bell curve.

It is interesting that a 4cyl that powered all of the Jeeps during WWII were absolutely inadequate and could never have functioned reasonably. Actually they should never have been built if they had to do it with just a 4cyl engine.

It is amazing also that an engine that has about 50% of its owners supporting that it is a good engine for their needs are totally ignorant and don't know what they really should have. I happen to be in that category and find the engine totally adequate for my needs, both on and off road.

For its wheelbase, height, and handling, no wrangler should ever be built with a V8 engine. It is just too unsafe to put that much power into the hands of untrained drivers. And that is pobably why you don't find one today offered with a V8.

That would leave it as a vehicle that is only fit to have a 6cyl in it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #102
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Good points! I am unbiased because a good 2.5 is worth alot of money to me for resale....I V8 everthing so I really don't have a dog in the fight. They all make money and fun so who really cares?
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:46 PM   #103
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It is amazing also that an engine that has about 50% of its owners supporting that it is a good engine for their needs are totally ignorant and don't know what they really should have.


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For its wheelbase, height, and handling, no wrangler should ever be built with a V8 engine. It is just too unsafe to put that much power into the hands of untrained drivers. And that is probably why you don't find one today offered with a V8.
could you imagine all the soccer mom accidents with a hemi powered four door JK? omg thank goodness bigbrother saves us from ourselves
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:21 AM   #104
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the fact that jeeps arent even available with a 4 cylinder anymore should be a clue as to their uselessness.
Again, the 4.0 is not included as an option anymore either. Your argument here has no validity. Newer 4 cylinder engines have more than enough power to be in a Jeep. But why not a newer 160hp+ 4 cylinder alongside with the new 3.6L?

Simple logic implies that it is more cost effective to have ONE assembly line all with essentially the same exact parts being put into the vehicle. This way the assembly process can be streamlined to create a vehicle as inexpensively as possible all the while maximizing profit margin.

I will re-state what is known fact: The AMC 2.5L 4 cylinder engine is adequate for the Jeep Wranglers they were included in. Just last night I was driving down a relatively flat section of highway. For gits and shiggles I decided to drop into 4th (from cruising at 65mph 2900rpm) and punch it. By the time I got to 4000rpm and shifting into 5th I was nearing 80mph. In 5th gear I was able to get to 84mph before it just didn't have any more in it. Some 3500rpm doing about 84mph. Was I speeding? Yes, not going to make excuses. We have all speed before whether we admit it or not. The point I am trying to make is that the 4 cylinder can pull perfectly fine on the highways. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that.

Head to head with my buddies 01 TJ and both of us on 29" tires, he was able to pull away, but not by a lot. Of course the 4.0 has more power and would likely be able to surpass 84mph, but you don't need to be doing 84mph on a highway. 65mph is the speed limit, 70mph is acceptable, 75mph is pushing it a bit.

As for the theory that 2.5L engine fail more often... You are going off of only the end result. How was the engine taken care of? Did the PO intentionally destroy it because they were fed up with it? Did it have routine oil changes? Did they even check the oil? How about basic tuneups? What about even opening the hood to check for oil leaks? Ever taken consideration that people want to keep their blown 4.0's to rebuild? Jeeps are not for the average Joe who doesn't bother with maintenance, they like to be loved.

One more time incase people missed my previous statements. The 2.5L isn't better than the 4.0. The point I am conveying is that it is adequate.

This is just like the D35. Is it the best axle? No. But it is adequate. I have one that the PO couldn't break on 35's. Does that mean I am going to run 35's on it? No, I think I'll pass it onto another needing Jeeper.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:03 PM   #105
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my argument is that the 2.5L is worthless and there's plenty of proof to back me up. any four cylinder in a jeep is inadequate as evidenced by the fact that they are no longer available. they simply don't have the power that most people are looking for. if you like to drive slow everywhere or wind the piss out of it to access its paltry 120 hp that's great. and the fact that the 4.0 isn't available either is irrelevant. the 4.0 was discontinued because it couldn't meet the emissions quality requirements that the government imposes on new vehicles. also i don't think anyone is complaining that the standard and only engine available in the jeep now makes 285 hp. i mean come on. get real.

btw over a week ago the guy that started this thread said he was getting a 4.0
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:20 PM   #106
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The 2.5 isn't the same as the 4.0, it was designed off of the 4.2 minus the middle 2 cylinders. The bore and stroke are different too.

The thown rods and holes are probably coming from people reading posts about having to rev the 2.5 harder to "keep it in it's power range" or maybe trying to prove they can hang with the 4.0
I own one and I have said it over and over.......It is good in 4low, and around town, but that is it.

As far as the WWII Jeeps, that is so different. Look at the gearing in them for one, and the "go devil" 4 cylinder is iconic, which is the grand daddy of all of our Wranglers. I have a 46 CJ2a Willys I am getting started on soon as my work picks up.

As far as the comment about not needing V-8's in a Jeep, all through the 70's there were CJ7's and 5's had 304's and bigger in them. As far as I understand people weren't getting killed because of them, poor gas mileage and power train issues (too much torque/power) were their demise. They may not have been needed, but Ballistix have you ever driven one? Now they are fun

Ask any engine builder about the 4.0's and why they quit making them............They last too long. That is what you will hear most every time.

I have as of now 4, 4.0's in my driveway that all have over 200,00 miles on them and all run great. My last wheeling rig (90 XJ) had 355,000 on the original motor and Dana 35 when sold last year, and is still running.

My 90 YJ with the 2.5 has 118,000 miles and on it's second motor. The previous owner blew it up running it at high rev's mudding it. I have yet to see a 4.0 blow unless it has been run out of oil or water.
Seriously the 2.5 just isn't in the same league.

Good luck to the others that have the 2.5. I am going to run mine until the thing dies again, and then maybe a 350 or 360 to go into it with 1 ton axles. Well that is the plan

I am not bragging about all the Jeeps I have or have had, I am stating this because I have experienced more time in more Jeeps than most, and just find the 2.5 to be a let down overall
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:00 PM   #107
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My god you are all of a bunch of uneducated morons trying to make invalid points about which engine is "better". Neither are. They are not included as options anymore. That theory holds more than enough water to drown you.

I'm done here. Those of us with significant experience with 2.5L engines know they are MORE than capable on the highways.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:08 PM   #108
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I had a 4 cyl stock, automatic, it was gutless on road. Couldn't even hardly do the speed limit. Always breaking down. Terrible vehicle. Worst experience I ever had with a vehicle. Un reliable. am I saying this is every 2.5 NO. Just put a bad taste in my mouth about them.
Would I buy another 4 cyl again? Nope. Only if it was going to be only a trail rig. Then I might. But otherwise I'll stick with my 4.0 and call it a day
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:41 AM   #109
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My god you are all of a bunch of uneducated morons trying to make invalid points about which engine is "better". Neither are. They are not included as options anymore. That theory holds more than enough water to drown you.

I'm done here. Those of us with significant experience with 2.5L engines know they are MORE than capable on the highways.
Are you serious? Un-educated? Morons? How many 4.0's have you owned and driven in all situations on the highway to compare? My guess would be none, which makes you the un-educated moron.
I have gone as far as to try and take up for you on here when you looked like a moron on the topic.
Man you look like the moron, over and over on how upset you get on the topic, and then you call names? that just solidifies it
There have been so many people that have made valid facts about the difference between the two, and you cling to the same old crap. LOL You really need to get out more, and socialize. Read your own post before calling names, and read some other forums on the topic.
Above you posted about going 85 on the highway, wow. my 88 XJ will go 100 and still accelerating, with 3.55 gears on 33's but I didn't buy it for that, and that is not what we are talking about here.
Did you read my comparison on the subject? I wasn't comparing speed, just power and fuel economy, which seems to be the major subject here.
I am pretty sure I have owned and worked on more Jeeps that you will ever have, in turn I know more about their mechanics than a lot of Jeep owners. Does this make me un-educated?
Ask a Jeep mechanic what the difference is. I have and I posted it in this thread. You are the one that is mis-informed, and look like an uneducated moron

I am glad for you and the few others that find 2.5 "adequate". The topic isn't what is adequate? Which is best was the question. You and a few others turned it into what is adequate.
I bought my poor excuse for a motor (compared to the 4.0's I own) after reading posts here, even knowing better, I figured I would give it a shot. I have been very disappointed, and this is why I have replied to this topic over and over so others don't do the same after reading some of your posts.
The original poster asked what is better, and he made his decision. I am glad for him that he did.
Either way it is still a Jeep, but the claims you and some others have made just don't work in what I have seen and that is what I have to go by. Not some "little engine that could" story
I have settled for the 2.5 and that is what most owners have to do, but to defend the thing to this degree makes you the uneducated moron
I am not calling you names just highlighting the obvious. You sir started with the name calling

By the way, describing something as adequate sounds to me like settling for something inferior. Or maybe that is just they way I am taking it

I still love ya, but can't let ya get away with calling me and others uneducated morons for being honest, and answering the original question
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:16 AM   #110
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Actually

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Originally Posted by Jatt-YJ View Post
I am buying a jeep soon but i dont know which engine is good please help and how long does the gas tank last before refueling.

Actually the OP asked "which is good". In the generality both are. In the specificity you have to qualify for the use. There are cases where the 4.0 is better. But that does not address which is "good". And either can be "better" depending on all the criteria.

And embracing "adequate" in NO way means that one is settling for less, just that there is no need to spend extra for what is not needed. If the 2.5 is "adequate" for the needs of the user and it can be bought cheaper, then it is a better choice as the extra funds can be spent moding it.

Regarding the rod failures of the 2.5, I can see where a poorly maintained 2.5 will throw a rod where an equally poorly maintained 4.0 would not because you are going to be revving the 2.5 to a higher rpm. That doesn't mean it is a poorer choice or is not good.

As far as power, there are those who say that the 2.5 cannot provide any "adequate" torque. Well, I would ask those who have actually USED the 2.5 at towing heavy loads. I HAVE. I have used it to tow the 29' self contained trailer that I had for 1,000s of miles on the back highways and on the interstate. The one trip from Mpls to Sturgis SD was made both ways towing that trailer with the 2.5. I was able to maintain 70-75 all the way, except coming up out of the Missouri River Bottoms at Chamberlain and on the uptake to Stugis. So, I suggest as was mentioned in the previous post, get the actual experience first.

I'm sorry that you bought the 2.5 and were totally dissatisfied with it. However, THOUSANDS have bought it and are completely satisfied. Thousands of others have and are reasonably satisfied. So it is not correct to try and force your opinion as the only one that is correct and anyone else the buys one is going to be disatisfied or misguided. For people that drive as you do, and expect the response that you do, it is obviously not a good choice. For those who do not, it can be, and is, an excellent choice.

Smaller engines are not always lesser. In the 70's was running a 340 in the cuda on the stock track. Decided to go to the 440 and blow everyone's doors off. Got to be a ritual. Saturday night, blow up the 440. Spend all night Saturday and Sunday pulling the 440 and dropping in the 340 for Sunday evening. Then spend Monday and Tuesday on the phone with Petty trying to figure out how to hold the rods in a 440. Rebuild the 440 during the week, put it in for Saturday night, blow it up and start over. Meanwhile, the 340 ran the entire season without blowing up once.

So, just because the 4.0 is more powerful does not make it the best choice for the individual person's Jeep. The rationale is to find out the inputs and then make the right choice. It wasn't that one engine was "better" or one was "good" it was, rather, a case that you made the wrong choice for you and now you are trying to force that onto everyone else.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:10 AM   #111
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I am not forcing anything on anyone
I am stating facts from real life experiences as you seem to be as well.
You are right about bigger not always being better, but in the case of the two Jeep engines in discussion, (we are not discussing the Mopar V-8's) what I have said is that when compared on the highway they are not close. That is not me being forceful. I am stating a facts. That is not forcing anything on anyone I own both in question. Almost every time I have made a post I have also stated that the 2.5 does well in 4wd low, and around town. It seems that you feel bad because so many people hate the 2.5 but there are reasons which have been stated over and over in this post. There are just a few that love them that have responded, and even some of them said they wouldn't buy another

As far as my YJ i am not "totally dissatisified" with mine, I just had to find where it was "adequate", and that is not on the highway. I would love to see a Trooper get behind you pulling a 29' trailer with a YJ. I would think that would be Illegal and as you would be far exceeding the pulling weight and safe stopping of the design of the Jeep. Just because you can doesn't mean it is safe.
Y'all keep revving the 2.5 to it's limit, towing heavy loads, and keep telling people they are like diesel trucks and the like. You may have one of the few exceptionally powerful 2.5's that we haven't heard of. One day you may figure it out.

Until then wheel on brothers


By the way..........................
Definition of ADEQUATE

1
: sufficient for a specific requirement <adequate taxation of goods>; also : barely sufficient or satisfactory
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:54 AM   #112
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Put it to a vote!! All those if given a choice. Would you rather have a 4cyl or a 6cyl?? The out come would bare the truth. When I was searching for my YJ I had to look at a lot 2.5's and through many years of owning and buying auto's I have learned to look for the best that auto makers produced. And why is it that when looking through the used jeep adds that their are far more I4's for sale than the I6's..Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:59 AM   #113
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Definition of ADEQUATE

1
: sufficient for a specific requirement <adequate taxation of goods>; also : barely sufficient or satisfactory


to xpress: thanks. comments like that. coming from you. they just make me smile
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:47 AM   #114
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Im convinced .....gonna ditch my engine program and put a 2.5 in my GE project
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:19 AM   #115
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Talking pulling and stopping

Those who challentge that a Wrangler can't stop a properly equipped trailer with ebrakes demonstrate their unfamiliarity with braking of trailers and vehicles. A properly set up trailer with ebrakes will be able to lock all wheels on the trailer. If that trailer is equipped with tandem axles, then all axles should have brakes and the brakes should be able to lock all 4 of the wheels. The brake controller is adjusted to apply current to just under wheel lock up based on the specific weight of the trailer.

I can assure you that a Wrangler, with a 6,000 lb tandem axle trailer with ebrakes on both axles, properly set up, will stop FAR shorter than a Wrangler with a 2,000 lb trailer in tow that is without ebrakes and is within the towing limits of the Wrangler. That is just common sense.

And I have met, and passed, numerous authorities (HP, police, sheriffs, & DOT personnel) and none have made any attempt to stop. The only time I have ever been questioned was on one hunting trip when the Dept of F&G personnel came into camp and asked "How in the HELL did you get that rig into here!" Actually it wasn't even a challenging trip in, or out compared to what we had to run following the power lines across 5 mountain ranges.

So, in reponse to the original OP question, the 2.5L, 4cyl is a "good" engine. And if it is adequate for your needs, why do you need anything more? If it isn't then buy one with the 4.0. And if that isn't "adequate" either, then change it out for something that is. The 4.0 will be just "adequate" in many instances also.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:49 AM   #116
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Im convinced .....gonna ditch my engine program and put a 2.5 in my GE project
i'm with you. screw my aspirations of having a 5.9L magnum. from now on 2.5L all the way. i'll even put one in my pickup. i mean hell since theyre such "great" motors. bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:04 PM   #117
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Well, I would ask those who have actually USED the 2.5 at towing heavy loads. I HAVE. I have used it to tow the 29' self contained trailer that I had for 1,000s of miles on the back highways and on the interstate. .
This makes me shake my head on so many levels.
1. NO wrangler should tow a 29 foot trailer. That could whip your jeep around if you really had to set it down.
2. I've never seen a 4 cylinder do over 80 so I doubt your doing 75 with 6k of dead weight on the back
3. One word : pickup.
4. Even with electronic brakes that's not a safe system. (I'd assume and hope your at least using weight distribution bars)
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:37 PM   #118
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setup for towing

The set up is the same whether towing with the 98 Dodge 360 quad cab 8' box or the Wrangler. The hitch is the Reese equalizer with 1,000 lb bars and the dual cam action sway control. I've had the necessity, and recreational use, to tow a wide variety of equipment with a wide variety of tow vehicles. From many miles of towing experience, the Wrangler with that setup towing the 29' trailer is much more stable, laterally, than towing my 19' with the old 69 Jeep Super Wagoneer without the sway control and just the equalizer bars.

And yes, I was running 70-75 all the way on the trip back from Sturgis. Admittedly there was absolutely no wind. The flags along the way were hanging straight down.

I did an experiment with the Line Foreman on a trip to challenge the Nuclear Lab security at the Idaho National Engineering Lab. They were bleeding into my UHF radio network and wouldn't admit it. I needed to get up above them in the mountains and run radio tests. The only way up there was with the big snow cat (12,000 lb on a 7,000 lb trailer). We hooked it up behind the 77 Jeep Wagoneer with the 360 and T-18 four speed. The Line Foreman was driving and we went out there and part way back at 70, no issues.

Part way back the Line Foreman was going on that the sway control and equalizer weren't significant as they hauled everything with the pintle hooks on their big rigs. So, I had him stop and dropped off the sway bars. We were at the bottom of a small dessert swale. He got going about 30 mph at the top and over the hump started to lose it. He played hell, even with the brake controller to get it stopped. Had to nurse it to the bottom and let it drain off on the next up take.

Put the bars back on and ran 70 the rest of the way back to the shop. He had all his smaller rigs down getting "updated" the next day.

You can tell how well it is working when you either pass a semi or are passed by one going the same way. If it isn't working right the end of the rig that is meeting the lateral wind shear will move first. With the sway control on, and set up right, when the semi passes the entire rig will push sideways as one unit.

When a semi passed from the rear, as his cab would come even with the back of the trailer you could feel the pressure on the Wrangler being pushed sideways. Nothing any more significant than with any other tow vehicle as they will all pressure when there is that much side pressure.

As far as emergency stopping, After 40 years of towin, I have been in the typical amount of panic stops and diversions and have never felt that the Wrangler was any less stable than the other moderate wheel base vehicles, such as the Wagoneers, Cherokees and Grand Cherokees that I have had. I have had over 30 jeeps in my life and have towed significant items with many of them. So, I don't come from a keyboard assessment.

In one hunting trip into the Bear Mountains in Idaho we were going upgrade when the snow got deeper and deeper. When I started pushing it with the front bumper it was obvious we weren't going much higher and there was absolutely no turn around the the past 3/4 mile. That meant backing down that 3/4 mile of winding mountain trail. That was with a Jeep Wagoneer and a 19' trailer.

My experience comes from being behind the wheel in snow, ice, mountains, deserts, interstates to mountain trails towing work and recreational equipment where it was absolutely imperative to go. In one trip up to my mountain top repeater site on Ryan's Ridge behind Garns Mountain we had 2 wagoneers (chained), and 1 snow cat breaking trail through 17 miles of winter mountain 1 track trail in a blizzard. We ended up stripping all of the winch line off both winches and sledding the rigs with the snow cat to get them out before we had to leave them for the winter. That was in October.

Obviously, if given a choice I will use the biggest rig available to tow with. However, the Wrangler, on reasonably flat terrain, can tow significant loads when properly set up. It cannot handle the likes of Teton Pass if the intent is to not block traffic. It can get up there, but VERY slowly. And coming down would definitely take some even slower going. Otherwise the trailer brakes would definitely overhead and, being drum, would fade out.
ballistx is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-03-2012, 01:41 PM   #119
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straight 6 all the way
baileybeetle is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 03-03-2012, 02:05 PM   #120
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i got my straight in 99 3 years old still have it drive it ever day just got a 2006 wanger x what of course a straight 6 !!!!!!

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