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Old 03-03-2012, 04:35 PM   #121
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In one trip up to my mountain top repeater site .
You a two way man?

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Old 03-03-2012, 05:57 PM   #122
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not anymore

Used to work on them. I had responsibility for the UHF/VHF radio network for the territory from West Yellowstone to Jackson Hole, WY to Wells NV to Boise ID. Included 5 mountain ranges. Had a UHF backbone with repeaters 125 miles apart and all dual frequency VHF mobiles for line crews, etc. Didn't have any help so I had all design/install/maint/repair. Haven't messed with it for over 20 years though. Also had substations, etc. talking into.

Also had all SCADA, transfer trip, relaying, metering etc that Bonneville Power had in that region.

Screwed up and never got my license (wasn't necessary for gvt) or ham license. Now I wish I had. Do they still need morse for ham?

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Old 03-03-2012, 09:13 PM   #123
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kinda curious what the gross weight of that 29' trailer that a 2.5L wrangler supposedly pulled
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:36 PM   #124
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never had it weighed

But it was the older style with the wooden frame so I would guestimate in the 6,000 lb range. That is about what it pulled like.

The Jeep Grand Wagoneer with the old 6cyl was much heavier and had a 5,000 lb tow rating. You throw in the automatic and and that makes it even more anemic compared to a 5 speed.

I guess I don't understand all the hupila that towing 5,000 or 6,000 lbs behind the 2.5 L is anything astronomical. If you bother to check the tow ratings of gas engines you will find that the "recommended" torque limitations limit out at about 55:1 weight:ftlb torque. That is about what the 2.5 is towing a 5,000 lb load. The I6 FI and a 5 spd should readily be able to tow into the 8,000 lb range.

Two of the brothers in the stock car crew towed the paving machines, manufactured where they worked, for delivery. They took half ton 74 Ford pickups and towed them from Huron, SD to both coasts. Those rigs, on their trailers, weighed in close to 22,000 lb! Yes, they burned a set of valves about every 2 trips. but they pulled them at highway speeds. That would have been about a 75:1 ratio.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:54 PM   #125
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Used to work on them. I had responsibility for the UHF/VHF radio network for the territory from West Yellowstone to Jackson Hole, WY to Wells NV to Boise ID. Included 5 mountain ranges. Had a UHF backbone with repeaters 125 miles apart and all dual frequency VHF mobiles for line crews, etc. Didn't have any help so I had all design/install/maint/repair. Haven't messed with it for over 20 years though. Also had substations, etc. talking into.

Also had all SCADA, transfer trip, relaying, metering etc that Bonneville Power had in that region.

Screwed up and never got my license (wasn't necessary for gvt) or ham license. Now I wish I had. Do they still need morse for ham?
Thats cool, pretty country for tower sites for sure! I am 3rd generation in the business.
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:29 PM   #126
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But it was the older style with the wooden frame so I would guestimate in the 6,000 lb range. That is about what it pulled like.

The Jeep Grand Wagoneer with the old 6cyl was much heavier and had a 5,000 lb tow rating. You throw in the automatic and and that makes it even more anemic compared to a 5 speed.

I guess I don't understand all the hupila that towing 5,000 or 6,000 lbs behind the 2.5 L is anything astronomical. If you bother to check the tow ratings of gas engines you will find that the "recommended" torque limitations limit out at about 55:1 weight:ftlb torque. That is about what the 2.5 is towing a 5,000 lb load. The I6 FI and a 5 spd should readily be able to tow into the 8,000 lb range.

Two of the brothers in the stock car crew towed the paving machines, manufactured where they worked, for delivery. They took half ton 74 Ford pickups and towed them from Huron, SD to both coasts. Those rigs, on their trailers, weighed in close to 22,000 lb! Yes, they burned a set of valves about every 2 trips. but they pulled them at highway speeds. That would have been about a 75:1 ratio.
sure buddy. if you say so. ive got some ocean front property out in southern wisconsin you can buy too
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:35 AM   #127
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I just read this thread and I cant believe why someone would ever take a 2.4/2.5 over a 4.0 this is why I own the 4.0 Inline Six!!
1. on the highway I like to pass people that are going to slow, I like to do 75mph up a 9% incline.
2. Reliability I worked at a dodge chrysler jeep dealership as a technician for two years. I have seen only 2 4.0 with head problems, now for the four cyilnders I have seen six total were blown up three of them threw rods.
3. Better gas mpg when modified with my 92 yj with the 4.0 I can manage 17-18 mpg at 65-70 mph on road trips with 34-12.50-16 MT's n 4:10 gears, I would like to see a four cylinder do that.
4. Offroad sometimes you need 4hi to get you through obstacles, silk glacier sand, thick mud, gravle rocky climbs well you need wheel spin to clear out your tires and keep your momentum going 4 high is your friend in many cases offroad. You cannot compare between the 4 and 6 cyl the 6 is better in every way hands down, sure the four cyl works but its not the best.

O and to the guy who said he pulled a 29 foot trailer across the country with his wrangler, calling BS I dont care if it had trailer brakes you would fu##### die going down a mountian pass trailer brakes ONLY provide maybe 20 percent of the braking plus all that tongue weight would bend your frame. Trust me I have driven overloaded trucks on alaskan mountian passes and allmost got killed when a 45 foot float trailer broke the rear sub frame on my gmc 5500 going down a pass. il post some pictures up if you dont think it can happen.
Sorry for the bad grammar on my phone.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:25 AM   #128
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sure buddy. if you say so. ive got some ocean front property out in southern wisconsin you can buy too
Not before he buys my ski resort in Illinois.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:51 AM   #129
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issue

The issue wasn't braking, frame capacity, etc. The issue was whether the 2.5 had the torque to pull the 29' trailer on the highway. The issue wasn't 9% grades either. Best to keep within the scope of what was done/said. If you had read all that I posted you would have read that I have towed for 40 years in all kinds of situations, towing just these kinds of loads with a wide variety of vehicles in all kinds of terrains and all kinds of weather. It was situations where there wasn't an easy choice to just get a bigger rig, or not go. I HAVE thrown on the trailer brakes on 9% downgrades because I HAD to due to the circumstances. I have experienced just how much braking that trailer will supply when the towing vehicle brakes have faded out. I HAVE had the towing vehicle and towed vehicle totally crossways on the interstate on solid ice covered roads and pulled it out without crashing. I HAVE slammed them into the ditch to avoid on coming vehicles in my lane and pulled them out too. I have never crashed or damaged a vehicle towing either. Well, except once when the highway blew up under the trailer and took out all the plumbing. I have pulled mountain roads with a trailer where there had to be spotters because half of the tire was off the edge of the road (vertical drop) in order to get through.

As far as the frame capacity, the frame on the Wrangler is a boxed frame and is just as substantial (or MORE) as most other vehicles with 6,000 lb tow ratings. Again, not talking about 30,000 lb loads behind the Wrangler.

On short/panic stopping a properly equipped trailer will/can lock all wheels with the ebrakes. If that is only 20% of the stopping I would love to see your engineering calculations supporting that. I guess you are saying that all recreational trailers only supply 20%, or less, of the braking?

I would appreciate if those addressing towing a 6,000 lb trailer would keep things in perspective. It is only a 6,000 lb trailer. It isn't a 33 ton loaded semi. It isn't a go cart in front either. It is a leaf spring equipped tow vehicle that has just as strong a frame as virtually ANY vehicle out there with a FACTORY rated 6,000 lb towing capacity. The swept brake area of the braking system is also equivalent to virtually EVERY vehicle out there with a 6,000 lb tow rating. Now I suppose one of you will HAVE to compare that to a 1 ton dually with a 15,000 lb tow rating and say that has more. KEEP IT IN PERSPECTIVE! The ONLY difference between the Wrangler and the other 6,000 lb tow rated vehicles is the length of wheel base and possibly the torque of the engine!

Finally, I never said anything about picking the 2.5 over the 4.0. In fact, I would prefer the 4.0 over the 2.5 in virtually all situations. However, the 2.5 is totally adequate for the vast majority of uses/users. True off roaders comprise ONLY about 5% of the Wrangler users even if they are probably 90% of those on this forum. If I had the choice between two identical YJ's, 1 with 4.0 and 1 with 2.5, I would pick the 4.0 hands down. But if the 4.0 was more expensive, it hadn't better be much because it IS only marginally better across the board and not worth much more than the 2.5 equipped vehicle. That is based on the way I would use it. Admittedly you can derive numerous situations where the 4.0 will be paramount, BUT if those are not part of the useage of the vehicle, then what is the difference? I don't care if it can't throw the mud from the cleats, I don't intend to use it that way, except MAYBE once during a hunting season and I have a winch to use instead of putting that much extra stress on the vehicle. Also, when hunting I carry a full set of 4wheel CHAINS and when it gets that bad, I chain it up rather than abuse the vehicle! My object isn't to throw mud, or to prove a point, or to test what I and the vehicle can do. Those are all ligitimate uses. However, MY objective is to get from point A to point B to do what I intend to do at point B, and I use the vehicle for that job. I try to limit the abuse because I HAVE to have it to get back out.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:59 AM   #130
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According to the owners manual, the frame on Wrangler is rated at 2,200 lbs towing. Good luck. Noone is out to get you or anything, I personally just feel it is necessary to post what I have found so others don't try this and kill someone and say "I heard you could tow 6,000lbs easily."
I have towed a single wide about 1mile with my old Waggoneer to get it off my property, the Jeep was way over weight, and i would never do that again. i admit i have no idea what the trailer weighed, but it took a lot to get it moving and stopped. It was an old 12x50 single wide the fire dept. said i couldn't burn it so i gave it away to someone down the road :-)
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:35 AM   #131
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understand

I understand fully. However, the frame ratings on all are modified with the application of an equalizing hitch. Typically the equalizer hitch is bolted to the frame rails only. That adds additional cross bracing as well as vertical stabilization.

The typical Class III equalizer hitches for a Wrangler only address the downward vertical pressure and their interconnection to the frame is such that it adds virtually nothing to the cross stabilization.

The Coliburn is the only hitch that I found that interconnected to the frame in such a manner as to give good vertical and lateral support. However, it did not fully address the upward thrust that is applied with the equalizer bars, especially not 1,000 lb bars and 600+ lbs of tongue weight that has to be redistributed partially to the front axle.

To compensate, I used a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 1/4" angle iron across the bottom of their hitch and welded to their hitch across the horizontal tube. I then bolted that into the cross member of the frame. This reinforced the frame to the point where it was far in excess of what was required.

The Coliburn hitch has 1/4" flat bars that are about 6" in height that extend from the ends of the hitch forward and tie into the frame about 9" ahead of the rear cross member. These are welded over the ends of the cross bar of the equalizer hitch. In fact, they are the only thing now holding the frame together on the rear passenger side as it is rusted amost totally through and is the reason for an upcoming frame off.

Rest assured, that frame, and hitch assembly is much stronger than the XJ's and their ratings. And I have owned several of the XJ's and have towed quite extensively with them. Actually the tow rating of an XJ IS 5,000 lbs. So the snide comments before in this post are absolutely rediculous, and insulting! If people are going to make insulting snide comments, they at least should be sure they have reasonable facts!

That Wrangler, set up the way it was, towing a 6,000 lb trailer was more stable and safer than a 1/2 ton pickup towing its rated trailer on a single ball hitch. Done both and can speak from ACTUAL experience with the rigs in question, which is FAR more than most making the snide comments can!
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:49 AM   #132
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:30 PM   #133
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A WRANGLER WAS NOT DESIGNED TO HAUL 6000lbs!!!!!!! end of story. i call b.s. on this whole story with experience to back me up. MY JEEP, MY CURRENT 2.5L 5 speed wrangler had to be enlisted to pull a 2000 dodge neon on a tow dolly from 50 miles away because my truck was down. by the way a dodge neon only weighs about 2500lbs and the dolly maybe 400lbs. thats only a combined weight of maybe 3000lbs. and the 2.5L BARELY had the nuts to pull said neon home and that was winding it up to keep it in its powerband and frequent 3rd to 4th up and downshifts to maintain 55. let alone the fact that i had to slip the hell out of the clutch just to get it to START the load moving.

snide comments my ass. if you actually are pulling that kind of load behind a wrangler, regardless of the hitch set up and brakes, you should permanently have your license revoked and possibly some jail time as that is criminal endangerment to everyone on the road.

but not for a minute due i actually believe even 1% of your b.s. story as i have owned several jeeps of various vintages and models. i know their capabilities and their shortcomings and your story is just that B.S.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #134
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2.5 all the way
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:24 PM   #135
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A WRANGLER WAS NOT DESIGNED TO HAUL 6000lbs!!!!!!! end of story. i call b.s. on this whole story with experience to back me up. MY JEEP, MY CURRENT 2.5L 5 speed wrangler had to be enlisted to pull a 2000 dodge neon on a tow dolly from 50 miles away because my truck was down. by the way a dodge neon only weighs about 2500lbs and the dolly maybe 400lbs. thats only a combined weight of maybe 3000lbs. and the 2.5L BARELY had the nuts to pull said neon home and that was winding it up to keep it in its powerband and frequent 3rd to 4th up and downshifts to maintain 55. let alone the fact that i had to slip the hell out of the clutch just to get it to START the load moving.

snide comments my ass. if you actually are pulling that kind of load behind a wrangler, regardless of the hitch set up and brakes, you should permanently have your license revoked and possibly some jail time as that is criminal endangerment to everyone on the road.

but not for a minute due i actually believe even 1% of your b.s. story as i have owned several jeeps of various vintages and models. i know their capabilities and their shortcomings and your story is just that B.S.


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Old 03-04-2012, 09:41 PM   #136
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2000 lbs is a stock jeeps towing capacity, either 2.5L OR 4.0. Remember what you have sitting underneath the rear of your Jeep.

That being said I have seen 2.5L Jeeps towing cars before. It's not that the engine CAN'T handle it, it's that the frame, brakes, and axles weren't designed to handle it. I have NO doubts a 2.5L could tow a 5000lb load. At what speed it can do it probably wouldn't be much over 55mph on a flat road. BUT, the question is, can your frame, axle and brakes handle it?

Stock brakes? No, they're sufficient for the Jeep itself, but unless you get some better brake calipers and vented disk brakes then you will probably overheat them and lose all of your stopping power.

Stock Dana 35? I wouldn't, especially since 31" tires is the max that axle realistically can handle.

Stock frame? Probably could handle the loads, but you're going to need some 1/4" steel placed in the right places to handle it.

Vehicles made for towing stuff often have beefed up frames and axles to handle such loads.

------------------------------

REMEMBER: YOUR EXPERIENCES MAY AND ABSOLUTELY CAN VARY!!!

I know people who can't even manage 65mph on the freeway on flat ground with their 2.5L, and they've got the right gears for their 33" tires too. I do it daily, and I can hold 65mph without much sweat. Drop the hammer and she gets up and scoots, with passing power too!! Just today I passed up 2 LARGE tour style buses that were doing 65mph on the highway. Decided I didn't want to get stuck behind them so I took my only opportunity and went around them.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:43 PM   #137
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2000 lbs is a stock jeeps towing capacity, either 2.5L OR 4.0. Remember what you have sitting underneath the rear of your Jeep.

That being said I have seen 2.5L Jeeps towing cars before. It's not that the engine CAN'T handle it, it's that the frame, brakes, and axles weren't designed to handle it. I have NO doubts a 2.5L could tow a 5000lb load. At what speed it can do it probably wouldn't be much over 55mph on a flat road. BUT, the question is, can your frame, axle and brakes handle it?

Stock brakes? No, they're sufficient for the Jeep itself, but unless you get some better brake calipers and vented disk brakes then you will probably overheat them and lose all of your stopping power.

Stock Dana 35? I wouldn't, especially since 31" tires is the max that axle realistically can handle.

Stock frame? Probably could handle the loads, but you're going to need some 1/4" steel placed in the right places to handle it.

Vehicles made for towing stuff often have beefed up frames and axles to handle such loads.

------------------------------

REMEMBER: YOUR EXPERIENCES MAY AND ABSOLUTELY CAN VARY!!!

I know people who can't even manage 65mph on the freeway on flat ground with their 2.5L, and they've got the right gears for their 33" tires too. I do it daily, and I can hold 65mph without much sweat. Drop the hammer and she gets up and scoots, with passing power too!! Just today I passed up 2 LARGE tour style buses that were doing 65mph on the highway. Decided I didn't want to get stuck behind them so I took my only opportunity and went around them.
for once i have to agree with you. you are right a 2.5 jeep can get up and go. my reasons for not wanting the motor are longevity. while i know you can get a 2.5 jeep to scoot by keeping the rpms up, i don't think i should have to. running a motor as hard as a 2.5 needs to be run is not good for it. ibuildembig's picture is worth a thousand words. i have no doubt that the motor pictured was maintained properly other than the fact that somebody beat the hell out of it. a bigger motor like a straight six or v-8 would effortlessly surpass the capabilities of the 2.5 while maintaining reasonable rpms and at the same time knock down better gas mileage. that was my argument and i maintain my position.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:24 AM   #138
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You can't just blanket the 2.5L as a "bad engine" because you saw a picture of a rod blown out of the side of it. I could post up pics of hundreds of engines with blown out rods. Hell, I could post pictures of a 2011 Toyota 5.7L V8 engine with a totally destroyed cylinder from a valve breaking inside. Does that mean the engine is a bad motor altogether? Absolutely not, there's too many contributing factors that can cause an engine to fail: everything from not maintaining oil levels to just never maintaining it entirely.

The 2.5L engine was designed to run in a particular RPM range, and that RPM range is between 2900-3500rpm. You can run it in a lower range, but it's NOT over revving an engine to run it where a manufacturer designed it to. Diesel engines run at full throttle all the time. Why? Because they were designed to.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:27 AM   #139
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You can't just blanket the 2.5L as a "bad engine" because you saw a picture of a rod blown out of the side of it. I could post up pics of hundreds of engines with blown out rods. Hell, I could post pictures of a 2011 Toyota 5.7L V8 engine with a totally destroyed cylinder from a valve breaking inside. Does that mean the engine is a bad motor altogether? Absolutely not, there's too many contributing factors that can cause an engine to fail: everything from not maintaining oil levels to just never maintaining it entirely.

The 2.5L engine was designed to run in a particular RPM range, and that RPM range is between 2900-3500rpm. You can run it in a lower range, but it's NOT over revving an engine to run it where a manufacturer designed it to. Diesel engines run at full throttle all the time. Why? Because they were designed to.
Yeah, you can look at pictures all day. Doesn't compare to when I was looking at my own jeep with 27,000 miles (NOT a typo) with a bad headgasket on my 2.5l.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:30 AM   #140
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Manufacturing defects do exist, however you are the first I've ever heard with a blown head gasket at such a low mileage.

However, there is still the question of how the engine was maintained.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:08 AM   #141
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i highly doubt that jeep wanted us to keep our motors at 2900 and above all the time as the shift light comes on at 2000 and cruising speed in 5th gear is below 2900 (at the speed limit of course hahaha).

yes the shift light is set retardedly low, but i'm just saying...............
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:11 PM   #142
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My shift light doesn't even work. There's no reason for you to have to shift so early- you're basically giving yourself a 1000rpm power range with that light. Plus you shouldn't be paying attention to your dash clusters as much as you should be paying attention to just driving.

Remember that Chrysler did not build the engine.. Most modern 4 cylinder engines cruise at highway RPM's between 2700 and 3000rpm.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #143
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i bet it has a 2.5 in it!

well dammit, it was supposed to copy over jkaufman_95 rocket pic.....oh well...good humor lost...
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #144
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yes the shift light is set retardedly low, but i'm just saying...............
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some may call it overbuilt. my right foot calls it future scrap.
my rides: '92 yj work in progress, '77 pontiac t/a (no its not cliche black), '87 chevy 3/4 ton on 1 ton running gear, '79 gs850 (daily driver), '78 gs1000 (when i get the need for speed)
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:41 AM   #145
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When did they change the 2.5 into a 2.4? My 2006 had a 2.4 and was wondering if anyone on here had one. All I'm seeing everyone talk about is the 2.5. Middle finger
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:13 PM   #146
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I was a 2.5 owner for 4 years. It had its moments

The 2.5's come with AX4/5 tranny, I broke 2 of these in 3 years, (switched to NV4500/Atlas 2 Tcase). I can be somewhat heavy footed and the 2.5 just never had the get up and go. With 31s on it I had a terrible time keeping it at 65 mph on the highway. (Unless I was got up behind someone to cut the wind resistance)

On the plus side, that engine was a soldier. It could take the hard daily driving I put it through. It made several trips from DC to Chicago without a problem. After I finally put it out to pasture, I could come back after 6 months and start it up without adding any gas to the tank.

My recomendation is get the 6 cylinder.

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