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Old 01-12-2012, 02:20 PM   #1
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93 YJ Front axles??

On my 93 wrangler i dislike when in 4x4 the turning radius pops and or hops because of the u joints. I have to take down my tranny soon and rebuild it so i was thinking maybe it would be possible to upgrade the axles to the Cherokee style and discard the U joint style. Has anyone done this? I deal with a company called STAR AXLE here in NJ and he rebuilds OE axles which i would be more likely to get. He has a pair part # 2105/06 that to me look like they will fit smoothly and work out to be the best for when i go 4 wheeling. ANyone ever try this or know if it is possible?

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Old 01-12-2012, 03:25 PM   #2
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I put a set of these Jeep Wrangler TJ Dana 30 CV 4340 300M Front Axle Kit | eBay in my 93 and just love them. Warrantied for life too.

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Old 01-12-2012, 04:03 PM   #3
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Here is a way cheaper option!
How-To: TJ Axle Shaft Conversion - JeepForum.com
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #4
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Yea, but you still have U-joints. I don't.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:44 AM   #5
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yeah that is true. not looking to keep u joints. damn those axles are 985!!!!! The ones i am getting are OEM Cherokee axles that through my shop im getting for like 45 bucks each.splines and length all match up. But since i know now that it can be done thats my next project at 206k miles..lol
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:23 AM   #6
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I will guess when you say cherokee axles you mean grand cherokee CV style shafts. Fwiw most grand drivers ditch the cv and upgrade to u-joints.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:08 AM   #7
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Upgrade to u joints? an older system? why would that be? turning radius would suck if that were the case.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:17 AM   #8
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Upgrade to u joints? an older system? why would that be? turning radius would suck if that were the case.
Has nothing to do with turning radius, has to do with strength. Keep in mind your talking about a Grand, they are pigs with weight..the stock CV shafts were designed to run a small tire with a smooth ride, not offroad abuse. Hence, issues came with bigger tires, busted grease bags etc, faster wear, best solution upgrade to u-joint and move on. Now the RCV or RCV shafts those are nice, but $$$$.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:02 AM   #9
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hmm...so do you think it would be worth it in my case? or say F it and stay with the stronger U's?
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:06 AM   #10
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I put a set of these Jeep Wrangler TJ Dana 30 CV 4340 300M Front Axle Kit | eBay in my 93 and just love them. Warrantied for life too.
let me ask you. it says i have to do away with the vacuum for 4x4. so does that mean i would either have to upgrade to manual switch , or be in awd all the time after this upgrade???
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:08 PM   #11
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let me ask you. it says i have to do away with the vacuum for 4x4. so does that mean i would either have to upgrade to manual switch , or be in awd all the time after this upgrade???
No, that just means your front driveshaft will be turning. You're not in four wheel drive until you engage the transfer case. You'll find most of the guys on here, get rid of the vacuum motor on their D30 axles, in favor of cable operated or TJ/XJ right side axle shafts. If you really want to get over board you can do RVCs and manual hubs too.
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Old 01-16-2012, 07:35 AM   #12
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haha, it is like to many options...lol I think i am just gonna do the CV's and see how that goes for now. I don't have to go crazy, just looking for better turning radius without the binding problems.
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Old 01-16-2012, 07:50 AM   #13
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I have never had binding turning problems on any of my jeeps. are you sure there is not something else wrong?
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:11 AM   #14
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popping

I have a 94 with stock D30 and have never had any popping when turning as tight as possible. I would question that something else is going on also.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:15 PM   #15
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It is only when in 4x4. Since now the front axles are turning with some force behind them if you over-steer on slow turning the u joints bind and create a hopping effect. Best way to describe it would be like using a universal socket at a bad angle and trying to spin it.
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Old 01-16-2012, 03:22 PM   #16
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When in 4wd, the front and rear axles are both linked together with a ZERO SLIP differential inside of the transfercase. This works fine when offroad because the surfaces can allow for all of your tires to slip and give easily if they have to.

Since your front end HAS to travel a farther distance than your rear end when turning, no matter how small of speed or radius, your system can begin to bind up when turning on hard road, causing the popping and such you are hearing in the front end. You should NEVER engage your 4x4 system on high traction surfaces unless you have an open or limited slip center differential. Our Jeeps do not have this, at least not the Wranglers. Some of the other SUV Jeeps have this system but our Jeeps do not.

In all likelihood your transfercase will just blow up and break completely before your axles are damaged.

Now if this popping happens when offroad on low traction surfaces then you may just need to replace your u-joints. They're inexpensive, although they require a bit of time to do them properly.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:44 PM   #17
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no, the u joints are fine. prob about 1 1/2 year old. i should have done this when i had 1st done the job. Everything works fine and is in amazing condition. Just mainly when in the snow and making tight turns i experience this. But i know a CV style axle will correct the problem. I want my axle guy to actually make me an 8 ball cage cv axle but only the newer style Jeeps have them so far. Which will not fit mine.
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:59 PM   #18
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snow or not

If you are biting through the snow to a traction surface, the vehicle will bind and jump when in 4wd. There has to be slip between the front and rear when the wheels have traction. Even on hard surface ground (packed dirt) they will do it.

To check it out, put the vehicle up on axle blocks (all 4 wheels) and put it in low, 4wd and cramp the wheels. See if it pops or binds then. If it does, it is in the suspension. If not, it is due to the differential between the front and rear.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:45 PM   #19
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If you go for the solid shaft up front you'll have to get a different front driveshaft. The stock yj front shafts are not balanced and you will get some vibrations. If you just let it vibrate front pinion bearings will go. That's what happened to my buddy.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:10 PM   #20
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Yea, but you still have U-joints. I don't.
But for the cost of those I would just grab a D44 and swap it in!
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:46 AM   #21
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i know for a fact it is u joint binding. pretty much why i wanna change to cv style. mainly happens in the snow cause that is mostly when i use the 4wd. but lets say i just put it into 4wd and make a tight turn it will bind regardless. I know it is not my suspension causing an issue. It had gotten a litle better after adjusting the turning radius screws as to not be bale to over-steer so much, but still it lessens my manueverability.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:53 PM   #22
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How do you know for "fact"? In all likelihood your Jeep is biting through the snow to the hard ground and causing the entire system to bind.
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:58 PM   #23
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because it does it in dry no snow weather as well only when i over turn the wheel to the end. CV joints as well have a slight over steer pop as well just not as bad with a bigger leeway to turn. But on the norm if i am in my back yard moving around nice and slow making tight turns it will bind. And i've witnessed this out side of the jeep being close under it looking while it happens. The turn adjusting screws adjusted out helped a little but then i can't make such big turns like i'd like to.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:14 PM   #24
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To me it sounds like you're trying to poke at an issue that is going to present with any u-joint vehicle. Swapping to CV shafts might cure the popping noise, but nontheless the binding will still be there whether on high or low traction surfaces.
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:54 AM   #25
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of course i know it will still be there, BUT it won't be as badwith a CV like it is with a U. And i'll have a tad more turn capabilities.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:57 PM   #26
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cause

The cause of the binding is not the U-joints in the axle but the compensation for the 0 difference in rotation of the front and rear drive shafts. Without a limited slip transfer case, the front and read drive shafts WILL turn at the same velocity. That means that the front and rear differentials are turning at the same velocity.

That gets translated to the different axles on each end based on the differences in rotational velocity of each wheel. If both ends are following the exact same path, then all is in balance. However, as soon as one set of wheels (front) has to follow a larger radius, then they are out of balance with the rear. Each end (front and rear) will balance across its differential via the spiders in the differential.

However, that does not compensate for the necessary difference in rotational velocity between the front and rear drive shaft. BUT that is zero because they HAVE to turn at the same speed.

The result will be that the tires will have to slip on the ground in order to compensate. If there is low traction, or the turning radius is large, then it won't be noticeable. But as soon at the turning radius shortens, or the traction increases, then you will feel the tires skipping. It is the tires skipping that you are feeling, not a popping in the U-joints. If you felt the U-joints popping in the steering, they would be all over the ground in about the 2nd turn.

That is why I suggested to put it up on blocks and crank the wheels over and see if it pops. If it does, then the problem is in the suspension (U-joints). If not, then it is the tires skipping.

You can easily calculate the amount of difference. Just take the circumference of the tires (all the same). Figure the circumference of the tuning radius of each of the 4 tires. The difference in circumference of each of the front and each of the rear radiuses is the difference that the differential has to compensate for. The difference between the average of each end is the difference that the transfer case (can't unless limited slip) or the tires skipping must comensate for.

As an example, on a 15' turning radius, say the rear goes at 14' and the front at 16'. That results in a 6.28' or 75.4" difference. On a 30" tire, (94.25" circumference) the front tires will turn approximately .8 revolutions more than the rear. If they can't, then the net of all tires skipping has to be 75.4" of slip. That slip will be in jerks that is felt in the steering.

I highly suggest blocking the axles and prove to yourself where the problem is before going to the expense and finding it won't fix your problem.
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Old 01-18-2012, 02:22 PM   #27
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well i am dropping the tranny as we speak, so i'll test it out on the lift now and let you know.
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:57 PM   #28
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i went with a free way. i went to the yard and took a cherokee front end. i had previously gotten the oem rebuilt axles from my guy and they fit like a glove. i am removing the cv axles from the yards end and giving them as a core to the re-builder who uses oem shafts to rebuild. he did not want core u joint styles. So i had to skip away from work and do what i had to do.






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Old 01-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #29
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The OIL seal that is on the left section midway will no longer be used to stop the gear oil from escaping??? Because the split axle on the OEM has the outer shaft and the extension shaft with a MID seal near the vacuum engagement fork. So...what happens to that seal? Looks to me like OIL will leak past the axle shaft.....am i wrong?
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:15 PM   #30
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unless anyone knows of a smaller seal that can be used?

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