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Old 05-25-2009, 10:09 PM   #1
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Question Brake Problems

hey whatsup guys just about done with my jeep after the first test run, i relieze i needed brakes, i couldnt even park on a hill ,i started rolling.So i bought new rotors, pads and calipers for my front and a wheel cylinder for one of my rear drums because the bleeder screw was broken.Having that done just today i went for my second test drive. And still almost the same feeling with the brake pedal, it goes all the way down to the floor and i barely can stop. Yes there is fluid in the master cylinder and i did bleed the brakes.I replaced a couple of brake lines and transfered the master cylinder along with the power booster but i never disconnected the lines from the master cylinder to the poprtioning value , ive been reading and some people have bench bleed there master cylinder. I have also tried adjusting the piston srew that sticks out of the brake booster and nothing.My Step Dad is coming over Next weekend so he can help me out but i would like to do this myslef.I was thinking of going to pepboys tommorow for them to bleed my brakes or check it out maybe i did something wroung anways thats where i started working so i can get some help for free or close to free.What do you guys think or suggest ?Have any idea what can be the problem my brake booster and master cylinder are from a 92 and my brakes compents like the caliper and rotor and drums are from a 87. My brake lines are 3/16 or 3/18 if i remember all help is appreciated thanks P.S dying to drive This jeep havent rode it since last summer :/

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Old 05-25-2009, 10:46 PM   #2
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anyone?

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Old 05-25-2009, 11:03 PM   #3
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first off you dont want the adjusting screw tight. the master cylinder needs a full range including release with a little slack (freeplay).

second is you need to bleed all air out. sometimes air gets trapped in master cylinder especially if there is no freeplay in pedal. you can try pushing caliper pistons back in which will force fluid and hopefully trapped air back into reservoir. fluid from calipers will fill master
after that bleed conventionally.
two people one pumping and one opening bleeder. do not rush this. pump slowly after closing bleeder releasing pedal each time (to allow master chamber to fill). once pedal gets a little harder then pump quicker and hold firmly open bleeder til fluid slows and close and repeat. do to each wheel about three times and move to next one and then do again.

forgot to ask...are the rear shoes adjusted? do that first if not.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:42 PM   #4
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Okay another question if my brake booster and master c ylinder belonged to a 92 and my brake drums and disc and calipers belong to a 87 ,can there be a problem there ?or regardless i should be able to brake ? i see on quadratec that the brake parts vary from yrs . if anything shouldnt the newer version master cylinders be stronger than the older ones? which master cylinder should i get the 87-89 or 90-95?
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:43 PM   #5
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and for some reason the old one is more cheaper than the newer versions anyone care to explain this to me?
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:06 PM   #6
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because you mixed and matched parts there "may" be problems. hydraulics work on psi, if earlier caliper pistons are say for example 2" and newer are 3" the newer ones will require less effort but more brake travel given the same master cylinder. I dont know specifics for parts you used but that shouldnt matter right now you should have some pedal.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:30 PM   #7
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yea i was thinking that , iam going to take my jeep over to my job for them to take a look at it and let them bleed it ,u doubt it i did it wrong but who knows i probably got a big air bubble.Ive been researching on a upgrade master cylinder that people have modded to fit in their yjs. So far this is what i found
Support Groups for Jeepaholics - Ford E-350 Master Cylinder swap into YJ
YJ Brake Upgrade. ---- Thanks to Van at VANCO as well - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board
YJ Master Cylinder Upgrade
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Old 05-27-2009, 05:12 AM   #8
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I think the difference in MC's is ABS and non ABS. When you bled the brakes you started at the wheel furthest from the master cylinder and worked towards it right? If not bleed them again this way.

1 Rear Passenger
2 Rear driver
3 Front passenger
4 front driver.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:55 PM   #9
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thanks guys for the input i finally bled them properly ,guess i had a lot of air left in the system, got some pedal today so i got to go back and adjust the piston thing dont know the name of it but got to make it shorter, and a couple of mechanics are recommending me to bench bleed the master cylinder ,so all i did was bleed a lot of fluid out of my lines.Going to bleed them again tommorow .A new problem i hear is one of my drums are making a clicking sound the sound increases the faster i go .this was the drum i had to change the cylinder in because the bleeder srew was broken.any idea what i could have done wroung?i had to force the drum back on to the shoes and yes i did have it in neutral.thanks guys.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:19 PM   #10
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WHen you forced the drum back on you may have knocked one of the Shoe retainers lose, it may have wedged and is causing the click sound you here.
when you install the drum you set the shoes so the drum just pushes over them and once seated have a slight drag. In some instances if you have not used a new drum and there is a ridge you will have to adjust them through the backing plate.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:56 PM   #11
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ight man thanks for the input i was kinda thinking something like that happen , i adjusted it but it still wasn't small enough to fit the drum.Ill take a look tomorrow and take some pics of the inside of the drum.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:27 AM   #12
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your on the right path, keep bleeding brakes. I never understood bench bleeding, its like gravity bleeding and as effective. Just do the two person thing. if youve already done a bunch and its still feels soft double check your shoe adjustment.
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Old 05-28-2009, 05:36 PM   #13
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your on the right path, keep bleeding brakes. I never understood bench bleeding, its like gravity bleeding and as effective. Just do the two person thing. if youve already done a bunch and its still feels soft double check your shoe adjustment.

Bench bleeding is used to rid the master cylinder of air. If you're a typical home mechanic without specialized equipment or a vacuum pump, bench-bleeding makes it a lot easier bleeding at the wheels after installation, sometimes even making wheel bleeding unnecessary.

Your new Master Cylinder is full of air. When it's made, brake fluid is used as an assembly lubricant, but otherwise no fluid is added to it. The MC is complex inside, with lots of nooks and crannies among all the seals and springs, and it tends to trap air inside. This is why we need to bench-bleed.

It is quite a lot easier to remove the air on the bench than it is to remove it once the lines are hooked up. And there's no point in feeding that air all the way through the lines, only to be ejected at the wheels anyway.
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:20 PM   #14
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It is quite a lot easier to remove the air on the bench than it is to remove it once the lines are hooked up. And there's no point in feeding that air all the way through the lines, only to be ejected at the wheels anyway.
so your saying he should take it off and bench bleed after all the work he did?
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:01 PM   #15
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so your saying he should take it off and bench bleed after all the work he did?

You said you never understood it so I explained it. There is no reason to bench bleed unless the MC is new. I think I said that also.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:08 PM   #16
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You said you never understood it so I explained it. There is no reason to bench bleed unless the MC is new. I think I said that also.
so if the mc drains out while your installing you wont need to bench bleed?
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:16 PM   #17
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so if the mc drains out while your installing you wont need to bench bleed?

No not really. Since it was already filled at one point you're already halfway there, just gotta bleed the wheels. It may take a little longer than normal and noway would I use a MC that has been dry for awhile.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:24 PM   #18
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No not really. Since it was already filled at one point you're already halfway there, just gotta bleed the wheels. It may take a little longer than normal and noway would I use a MC that has been dry for awhile.
so if it was once filled you dont need to bench bleed again even if all the fluid drips out while installing?
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:32 PM   #19
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so if it was once filled you dont need to bench bleed again even if all the fluid drips out while installing?
It shouldn't drip out if you cap the fittings. If ya really wanted to do it again, sure. It really should not be necessary though.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:40 PM   #20
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my whole point is like i said in the post you picked out above bench bleeding is as effective as gravity bleeding. Believe me i understand what it is but ive found equal results in bench bleeding versus installing mc and filling reservoir to top and treading lines hand tight til fluid start seeping past threads and then tightening lines. either way ive found that air always gets into system and youll always have to bleed brakes afterwards.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:13 PM   #21
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You can bleed the mc while still on the vehicle. Just crack the line, push the pedal to the floor, have your beer buddy tighten the line. Continue till you have no air in the fluid.
If the fluid doesnt squirt out and just dribbles or you dont have air then you do or even the "phantom" pedal. Your mc is a p.o.s. Any other questions? By the way I think I'm insane, I teach Auto to High School hellions. :P 9 more days till the little bastards are gone! yyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:03 PM   #22
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I teach Auto to High School hellions. :P 9 more days till the little bastards are gone!

Greaaaaat!!! So that means those lil bastards will be looking for summer jobs. Hopefully none will apply at my dealership ...No, really
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:20 AM   #23
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Do not worry, they can't even spell dealership. All you have to do is make it a requirement that they can read a micrometer and no worries. 4 whole days, 2 how to videos, numerous demonstrations, explanations and 6 out of 40 get it. They can not do math! Don't even get me started on reading a ruler.

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