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Old 03-29-2014, 02:22 PM   #1
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Death HOP?

Hey All,

New to the Jeep world and this forum. Well I already have a tech question and I'm not happy about it. I got a 91 Jeep YJ from my Brother in Law. I know he is not out to rip me off, in fact he is pretty clueless about mechanics. So, here is my issue. I check out the Jeep before I bought it but never really took it out on the road. Today for the first time, got it home yesterday, and took it around the block. At about 30-35 mph the driver front started to hop bad. Shook the whole front of the Jeep. I've never had that happen on any vehicle. I almost lost control of the Jeep. It didn't stop till 10 mph. So what could cause this?

Bad wheel balance?

It's suppose to have a air locker up front but I haven't found an air line. Would it be stuck hubs?

Shocks are shot?

Track bar or shackles? I ask this because he handed me a receipt for 1800 of front end work. Including new 5.13 gears, new front shackles and track bar. The comment was "Death wobble taken care of by new front shackles".

Here are a few pics of the front end for those savvy enough to spot something.




REAR

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Old 03-29-2014, 02:44 PM   #2
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Oh my! That looks scary. What is the driver side front spring pack sitting on? Your tie rod is bowed, and is that drag link supposed to be some custom SOA drag link? And how could those rusty shackles be new? I guess maybe the Tereflex rear shackles were new at some point.

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Old 03-29-2014, 02:49 PM   #3
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Yep Death wobble can be a pain sometimes to solve. From the pictures , you should park it man. That work that was done is not correct at all. The spring by the pumpkin on the front end is no seated on a leaf perch at all, it looks like the only thing that is holding it on is those horrible looking u bolts attached to some kind of plate? The shop that did this "work ripped you both off". They did it not even half ass, the axle should have been narrowed or the springs moved out ward.
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:00 PM   #4
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The passenger side also looks like the spring is only half on the axle and there is no steering stabilizer.
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:02 PM   #5
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You have some major issues up front. The track bar looked like the axle would hit it. Both the drag link and tie rid look bent to me. Plus everything Reno said.

I'd park it and not drive it AT ALL until it is fixed.
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:28 PM   #6
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I think someone made the front axle work with OEM parts. I was clueless when I looked at it and it. I got to caught up in the HD axle swap to recognize the heavy dose of red neck applied. This jeep was daily driven by the owner previous to my Bro in Law or so they told him. He drove it only for recreation. I only wanted it for some off road fun as well. However, it needs to be drivable to get to the trail. I was looking at a coil conversion for the front anyway. I will probably include a new drag link set up. Suggestions?
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Old 03-29-2014, 04:13 PM   #7
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Boy, where to start. First off, do you have a air compressor under the hood? If not there is no air locker, if you do have one, follow the air line, it should go into the top of your differential. Second, if you have a proper leaf spring set up you don't need a track bar, but I can tell you that rusted bar they have mounted is not new, it looks like they Mickey moused a axle bracket for the track bar to raise it up. You really need to have your front end completely redone, whether you go coils or leafs is up to you but you need new of almost all the suspension and steering components. Looking at the way the tie rid end is bolted to the steering knuckle also looks wrong. If you don't have experience doing this work, you really need to find a 4x4 shop that knows there stuff. Problem is if you can't do most of this work yourself, in not sure this jeep is worth the money it would take to make it safe on the road. I'm sorry, but for your own safety I can't suger coat this.
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Old 03-29-2014, 06:46 PM   #8
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I would not even take it on the trail the way it is, it will leave you stranded
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Old 03-29-2014, 07:48 PM   #9
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Wow what a mess
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:01 PM   #10
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You don't have to be to savvy to spot that nightmare.... Sell it now! If you can that is. Cut your losses and start with a better more capable platform.
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Old 03-29-2014, 10:25 PM   #11
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:16 PM   #12
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I have done a fair bit of fab work for friends Explorers and a few cars and trucks of my own. Most of my experience is doing suspension mods for Mustangs. I have a fair bit of fab equipment. I can figure stuff out and have confidence in my own mechanical ability. So going through the whole front end dose not bother me. I'm not going to BAIL out on the project. There is a lot of good stuff there it just needs to be put together better. I know there are a whole lot of BRAND and/or MODEL whores out there that will call anything that’s not their product of choice shit. I believe you can make any vehicle cool and work well with ingenuity. I guess what I'm looking for is ideas of what other people have done to mount an axle like that. Like going to a car show and checking out what other people have done and coming up with a proper set up that works for you. If there is a jeep group getting together around Portland Oregon sometime soon I would like to come take a look at your rigs. Thanks for all the replies. But I know at this point the front end is hosed, all though the clip of Ricky rolling his eyes was funny.

Oh one other thing I talked to my brother in Law. He said he is sure that the shop that did the gears said the front diff is locked. If this is true and I don't see and air line or hub locks (notice front wheels have full hub covers) than I'm thinking that makes the front end unstable as well.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:53 AM   #13
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Not sure why you're calling people "brand and/or model whores"?
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:30 AM   #14
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yea its fubar alright.....

definatly start with a not bent inner tie rod and drag link, add a steering stabilizer, balance the tires just for laughs and a wheel alignment, do you know what the axle on the front came off of? the way the axle is mounted to the leaf springs (or lack of mounts should fix that for sure) could have the caster way out of wack and be helping to promote death wobble as well.....reguardless of what axle it is I would search for threads related to death wobble (there are a lot, even stickied on this forum somewhere I am pretty sure) even though yours is a "special" case the priciples of death wobble still apply......they way the front end looks I would assume the ball joints and tie rod ends are loose too until you check them I would assume they are bad.....you could jack up both front wheels and spin one, see if they both spin the same direction, maybe the locker is modified to be stuck in the lock position based on the way everything else was modified?? Also not sure why there is a trac bar on a leaf spring system, leaf springs stop side to side or axial movement on their own, that's just in the way, the leaf springs themselves also seem pretty sagged out and tired too.....really looks terrible imo, but you gotta start somewhere...or start over with an axle that fits....good luck my friend, your gonna need it......didn't your bro in law drive it at all after he paid for his repairs???

maybe you could make a trail to get to the trail easier than making that road worthy? sorry I know your probably not in the mood for jokes
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:54 AM   #15
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yea its fubar alright.....

definatly start with a not bent inner tie rod and drag link, add a steering stabilizer, balance the tires just for laughs and a wheel alignment, do you know what the axle on the front came off of? the way the axle is mounted to the leaf springs (or lack of mounts should fix that for sure) could have the caster way out of wack and be helping to promote death wobble as well.....reguardless of what axle it is I would search for threads related to death wobble (there are a lot, even stickied on this forum somewhere I am pretty sure) even though yours is a "special" case the priciples of death wobble still apply......they way the front end looks I would assume the ball joints and tie rod ends are loose too until you check them I would assume they are bad.....you could jack up both front wheels and spin one, see if they both spin the same direction, maybe the locker is modified to be stuck in the lock position based on the way everything else was modified?? Also not sure why there is a trac bar on a leaf spring system, leaf springs stop side to side or axial movement on their own, that's just in the way, the leaf springs themselves also seem pretty sagged out and tired too.....really looks terrible imo, but you gotta start somewhere...or start over with an axle that fits....good luck my friend, your gonna need it......didn't your bro in law drive it at all after he paid for his repairs???

maybe you could make a trail to get to the trail easier than making that road worthy? sorry I know your probably not in the mood for jokes
x2. It looks like someone tried a half- axle upgrade. I think the first thing to do is to find the right front axle, then gut the entire front suspension/steering set up.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:00 AM   #16
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Well I would like to figure out what axle I do have in the front. I'm pretty sure it’s a Dana 60 and I think it's a high steer. From what truck I don't know. I have to look at it again to see if it is a high pinion. The pictures I have under the floor pan are dark. The odd part of that axle is there is a large shelf coming off the driver’s side of the pumpkin. That's where the driver’s leaf spring is sitting. I've been looking into moving the springs outboard. I will cut off all the extra BS and start with new spring perches and shock mounts as necessary but I would like to avoid having to get another axle if possible. I definitely need a new steering set up. If anyone has good pics of their YJ with a Dana 60 set up, please post.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:29 AM   #17
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I am with you keep it and fix it then you have sweat blood and Tears in the project you will love it even more so to check the locker question just take off the front cover and look at it.

The home made parts like the plates keep as templates to make new ones.

Also take a pic if the pumpkin cover it will tell you the numbers on it then look them up on the web.

I agree with most of the comments previously posted except get rid of it.

Fix it enjoy it!

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Old 03-30-2014, 11:15 PM   #18
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Ok I've crawled under the jeep to thoroughly inspect the steering linkage. It scared me. It's loose enough to flop in the wind. Not real proud of myself right now. However, I can fix it. So I'm fairly sure the front is a DANA 60 but from what truck I don't know. I figure it was a big Ford looking at the basics, driver side pumpkin and ball joints with dual piston calipers, and remote locking hubs. I can't find a BOM number on the axle. I do have more pics of a few numbers and their location on the axle. Maybe someone here has an idea.

Remote hub actuator


Left of remote hub actuator


Diff cover



Right of remote actuator
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:57 PM   #19
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:51 AM   #20
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heres a site that should help with axle id.

CDMFabrication.com • View topic - Axle Identification
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:32 AM   #21
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I'm fairly certain that's a Dana 60, guessing from an F-350 based on what looks to be where the original mounting points are. What might be the best thing to do would be to get your on the correct weld on hardware kit for the axle, like from Dynatrac or any number of vendors. Might be a few hundred dollars, but better safe than sorry.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:50 AM   #22
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From looking at it, it does look like a 60. However I would say it is a 60 out of a gen 2 Ram 2500 or 3500 truck due to the CAD. It is possible that the installer removed the suspension mounts for the "install" install under the jeep. If it was me I would sell that axle and get a 60 without the CAD. The CAD is in the way of allowing you to move the pumpkin over to mount springs correctly. Even if you move the springs outward , the CAD will be in the way. I know some people weld on cast iron, but i would not. I would not trust a spring hanger welded to the CAD housing. It sucks but I do not think you are going to find a cheap fix for this if you want to do it correctly and safely.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:59 AM   #23
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I'll second the vote on it being a dodge axle, I've seen dodge D60 axle pretty cheap, but there's a reason why. The function of the CAD itself can be gotten around with a custom shaft to replace the factory 2 piece, it's the housing and perch width that pose the problem.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:27 AM   #24
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I measured the axle this morning. Tubes are 3.5", WMS to WMS is approx 72". Dual piston calipers.

What is CAD?

EDIT: YUP THAT'S IT!! A Dodge Dana 60. Looks like someone cut off the coil spring perch and was using some cast pad that was never meant to be a spring perch. Well FORNICATIONS! I suppose I could make it work with a coil over kit but I think the cost would be the same with a lot more work involved. Lucky we have bitchen U-pull it yards all over Portland. I find all kinds of good stuff if I look. So what would I need, a 78 or 79 D60?
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:53 PM   #25
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Center Axle Disconnect. It was a way of not having to lock Manual hubs to engage 4wd when the transfer case is shifted in to 4hi or 4lo.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:30 PM   #26
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78-79 will pretty much bolt in, in the long run you'll be miles ahead of that contraption. How's the rest of the rig look?
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:00 AM   #27
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Ok, Let say I find another D60. The current set up has brand new 5:13 gears. Can I pull those gears and put them in the Ford? The diff cover says reverse, so I'm assuming that means reverse cut. Are the bearings the same as the Ford? So I guess I'm asking how universal are the internals of the Dana 60 model to model?
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:14 AM   #28
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Ok, Let say I find another D60. The current set up has brand new 5:13 gears. Can I pull those gears and put them in the Ford? The diff cover says reverse, so I'm assuming that means reverse cut. Are the bearings the same as the Ford? So I guess I'm asking how universal are the internals of the Dana 60 model to model?
Don't know that answer to your question. However if the same shop that did the axle install is one who set up the gears, I would question whether they are currently set up right. Your diff may grenade if they didn't know what they were doing, and it don't look like they did to me.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:59 PM   #29
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I have a dodge 1500 and my brother has 2500 with that same axle, it is not a high pinion (reverse cut). take a picture of the pinion.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:28 PM   #30
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I believe the carrier is interchsngeable, but I would have someone experienced do the setup.

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