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Old 10-11-2013, 07:55 AM   #1
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I am building a 4.6 stroker

I have a few questions on the subject, for those who have done this. As I progress further I am sure I will have more.

1) I am going to be running the stock 4.2 Carter to start with. When I get the bugs worked out of the motor I am leaning towards an MC2100. Considering efi, but my main concern is how well it runs at angles, and I gather that the 2100 runs awesome even at steep angles. So unless someone wants to convince me to run mpfi I will keep it simple. Question is, can I run one with the 1.21" venturis or would I be better with a 1.08" carb? I can get a 1.21" carb cheap right now, but doing things right is important.

2) I am looking at Sealed Power .030 over pistons. They are on summit for $98. I am trying to keep this as cheap as possible, but quality come first in my book. Opinions?

3) Is the APN header the best option currently? I am not gonna drop $400 on a gale banks header or anything ridiculous like that. However I would rather it not crack.

4) I come from the land of Mopar, where a double roller timing chain for a 5.9 Magnum is $44. So of course I had a coronary when I saw double roller timing chains priced at $140+. Anybody know anywhere that sells them a bit more reasonably priced?

I am $333 into this build so far, and have a complete built 4.0 HO head with valvetrain, polished 4.2 crank and matching rods from the old motor, a 4.0 block that needs a bore and cam bearings, and a cam that I am told is an aftermarket RV type (unconfirmed). Also sold my old peugeot tranny and have an ax15 thats going in with the new motor. Tips/advice are welcome.

Thanks folks.

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Old 10-11-2013, 08:51 AM   #2
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go to jeep stroker forum and read up. there is quite a bit to building a stroker correctly and the people there know all the tricks.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:34 PM   #3
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just was wondering what you think this build might cost? I have talked to a few that have done this and they say they have been impressed by the performance
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:24 PM   #4
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I did the 4.7l stroker on my old 93 xj, dyno showed 260hp and 325lb/ft torque. I had hesco parts in it, and it ran me about 1500 with me putting it together myself and the machine shop work, but it was worth every penny. If you have a 4.0 block and head, I'd use the 4.0l intake and efi system, the mc 2100 1.21 would work though with much smaller jets like around 40-42 at sea level and the 1.08 at around 48-50 jets at sea level
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:02 AM   #5
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^ I dont have any of the efi stuff and I am trying to keep it cheap. So I will probably go with the mc2100 because I dont wanna deal with the wiring and computer etc.

I expect to be around $1000 into the project by the time the motor is installed including the tranny price. That is installed, including the little stuff like motor mounts etc. Very likely it will end up more than that though, stuff has a way of sneaking up on my wallet.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombat Ranger View Post
^ I dont have any of the efi stuff and I am trying to keep it cheap. So I will probably go with the mc2100 because I dont wanna deal with the wiring and computer etc.

I expect to be around $1000 into the project by the time the motor is installed including the tranny price. That is installed, including the little stuff like motor mounts etc. Very likely it will end up more than that though, stuff has a way of sneaking up on my wallet.
Make sure you have a timing light and vacuum gauge with the mc 2100. once very fine tuned, these are really good carbs. You might have to play around with timing and jet sizes/float level with your stroker until you get it just right
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:36 AM   #7
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Update.

I have a fresh 4.6 short block in my garage, and a ton of parts in my kitchen. I am waiting on the cam and head to be done. The build ended up costing me in the neighborhood of $2500, but that includes a lot of goodies like 4WDH HEI conversion kit, APN header, double roller timing set, Brown Dog super engine bracket kit, ARP head studs, etc. I am still coming out way ahead of where I would be had I just ordered an off the shelf long block for $3300+.

I ended up going with a re-ground stock HO cam for the purpose of bottom end torque. Head will be running stock springs, bronze guides, fresh grind on hardened seats, new seals, and a quick simple port job. Short block is a 91 block .030 over, align honed, and decked just enough to be flat. Using my old 4.2 crank (original to the jeep) polished and rods resized. Sealed power .030 over hypereutectic dish pistons (I want low compression) & moly rings. King main & rod bearings, Sealed Power cam bearings.

If anyone has any questions about this whole project let me know. I have done as much of it as I can myself.
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:48 PM   #8
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As of tonight the motor is all ready to go into the jeep tomorrow morning.

I think I should post a few pics to maybe spark some interest.


The original reason this engine build happened.


Started ordering parts
















No pix of short block parts, but here she is complete, and progressing through the assembly.




Here you can get an idea of the size of the garage I am doing this project in.


More progression pics




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Old 12-18-2013, 11:50 PM   #9
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Using new tupperware for the first time












Jeep sitting a bit nose high with no drivetrain.


Motor ready to be dropped in tomorrow morning!


Had to "clearance" the APN header to fit the 4.2 intake manifold with it. Clearance means ball peen hammer to a couple primaries after a few Rum & Coke's. Most strokers are built to use the 4.0 EFI manifolds, so I am blazing a few trails here.
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:14 AM   #10
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I can't believe you built a stroker and are keeping the carter bbd, hope you get something else soon lol. Maybe a motorcraft 2150?
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:23 AM   #11
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The plan is for a motorcraft. I am only using the carter because it is there and I don't want to spend the cash right this second. My BBD has been rebuilt at some point (has a "refurbished" sticker on it), and I have never had a problem with it. I will be upgrading to a better carb in the future.


I do like to be different though!
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:34 AM   #12
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Looks great!

I've got a used 4.0L in my garage, and I'm still trying to decide what direction take (stock or stroker, and if stroker, what choices to make) I understand the use of the stock cam, but why did you want low compression pistons? Could you give a list of the parts you purchased and your costs?

Also, please be sure to post back some thoughts after you have some miles on it.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:43 AM   #13
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Thanks Stan!

I used stock style dish pistons because I want to keep compression down where I can run junk gas through this thing and not worry about anything. The goal here is not to make an engine that is making peak power at 4500 rpm. That would be useless to me. Which is why I built an I6 instead of a small block in the first place. This engine is going in a wheeler, and I want the characteristics at idle and below to be smooth and torquey. I have said it in another thread and gotten told I am "full of it," but it is still true: when I was wheeling with the original 4.2 there were times I was lugging down below 300 rpm on the trail. a rip snortin' high compression motor wouldn't like that so much.

Parts list:
These are the prices I paid including shipping.


From My Cousin
4.0 core long block (nothing was reusable) - $100

From George The Jeep
Good Core 7120 head (no cracks) + serpentine accessories - $160

From Summit Racing
Sealed Power .030" over pistons - $98
Sealed Power Moly Rings - $78
Sealed Power Cam Bearings - $29
King Main bearings - $60
King rod bearings - $28
Dorman Freeze plugs - $9
Sealed Power High Volume Oil Pump - $79
Mopar Double Roller Timing Chain (turned out to be a Cloyes that cost $6 more) - $150
A1 Cardone Reman'd Water Pump - $24
ARP Head Studs - $127

From RockAuto
Victor Reinz Layered Steel Head Gasket - $27
Stant Fancypants 180* thermostat - $4
Shipping sucked on this order - $18

From the parts store
Reusable rubber/metal oil pan gasket - $20
Reusable rubber/metal valvecover gasket - $40
Rear Main Seal - $17
Grade 8 bolts/washers for the valvecover - $10
Sealed Power Pushrods -$31

Brown Dog Industries Super Engine Bracket Kit (the one made to accommodate a header) - $275

APN 4.0 Header - $180

4 Wheel Drive Hardware HEI Distrbutor & Wires - $127

DG Machine - $100
Crank polish
Block, head, crank hot tank

Short block machine work done by 410 Machine Service in Buckley WA - $520
.030" over
Align Hone
Minimal deck, took about .010" off to get it flat
Cam Bearing install
Re-sized the rods
Rotating assembly installed

Made a deal with a friend for head work - $73 + working on his diesel
Mill
New valves
Fresh grind (they were already hardened seats)
Bronze guides
Valve seals

Cam Grind - $100
Mild bump in lift/Duration for the purpose of bottom end torque and a decent upper rpm range pull as well. Should be very well rounded.

Total $2484


I did the rest of the assembly myself. As you can see it all can add up quick! I didn't cut any corners with this project, but there were areas that I also could have spent a lot more money. Overall I think that this motor will be built very well for it's purpose. The icing on the cake will be when I get a better carb on it after some miles with this Carter. I would like to do roller rockers in the future as well. Other than those two wishes I have no plans currently to do more with this engine.

I will definitely post back with my thoughts and experience with this new motor. I am expecting a HUGE power increase from my tired old 4.2 to this bad boy. I would be surprised if I was getting more than 60hp to the rear tires with the old motor, so I should easily more than double that, hopefully triple it with a good carb etc.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:10 PM   #14
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What is your piston to head Squelch? With only decking the block 0.010", I would think you would be way over the old rule of max 0.060", I hope it don't per-detonate and knock like crazy from the outer rim of the piston getting to Hot.
I had to Deck my block 0.050", use a 0.043" head gasket and still have about 0.048" squelch with 10.25 to 1 Compression. Let us know, and good luck!

Same pistons, 0.020" over, 1990 4.2 crank and rods 0.010" under, 1997 4.0 block and head. Over $4,000. in, and it's and still not together! LOL

Clifford 6 = 8, 4 Brl. Intake for the 4.0 head and Holley 390cfm Carb., was almost $800.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:18 PM   #15
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I'm still trying to decide if I want to go V8 or stroker when my 4.0 dies. I'm surprized you don't want FI instead of a carb seeing as how I imagine you do some high altitude wheeling in WA. We end up anywhere from 6000 ft to over 13000 ft when we wheel in Utah, can't imagine dealing with a carb at that altitude and verticle climbs we do. Really nice work though in a very cramped workspace.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:55 PM   #16
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I want it simple to start with. I don't want to bite off too much at a time. I can always do a junkyard TBI convert in the future. Not going to go with complicated MPFI though. I like simple. Less wires means more happy.


Nubby, I am NEW to building engines. This is my first one. I took on the project with one of the main goals being to learn. I don't even know what squelch is, but I assume it is the same thing as quench? I don't actually know what quench is either. That being said I entered all my values into the calculator on Jeepstrokers.com just now and came up with a .05949 value, so I should be good.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:04 PM   #17
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What happens when your best friend helps you with your engine project for 2 days straight.


Today's pics.



















I am thrilled to have an engine/tranny in my jeep for the first time since September.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #18
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Hey Ranger, yes quench is the correct term, sorry in South Louisiana I some times say things wrong, in your calculations did you add in the head gasket? if so you should be fine just some what high on the compression, I do hope it works out fine.

Quench is the total distance from the top of the piston to the head, on the outer edge of the piston, less than 0.060" should make the gases rush back to the center bowl of the piston and head. In doing so the gases cool the outer edges of the piston and prevent a hot spot which can and will cause a high compression engine to Ping or Knock, and often diesel on shut down, like the engines did back in the 70s when ran on Low Octane fuel with Flat Top pistons.
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #19
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Oh Ranger, you did use a different year block than I used, when I mocked up my short block my pistons where about 0.063" down in the block at TDC, plus the thinnest head gasket I can find is the MoPar HP @0.043, which gave me 0.106" so I milled 0.050" off, leaving 0.056 quench, and 0.013" left on the deck if I ever need to true it up again.

Please let me know how Yours does, I like the Old School Plan with a Carb., most guys running Strokers go with MPFI, they mill out the pistons to get the compression down below 9.5 or 9.25 to 1, so the PCM can handle it, but I'm on Your side with a Carb.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:18 PM   #20
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Is that a self portrait of your friend or just a penis?
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:10 AM   #21
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Daddy that's a penis. Boy that seems like a weird way to word that statement.

Nubby I am glad you are helping me, wish I woulda heard from you before the engine was done. So you are saying deck height is .063 with the stock 4.0 deck and 4.2 crank/rods with these sealed power pistons? That would mean my deck is at about a .053 which means my static comp ratio is about 9.6:1 (good) but quench is .091". Ouch. Time to do some more homework. Is all hope lost? Or is there something I can do to run this thing as is for a while?


Also I lived in Shreveport for 2 years in the USAF, I am honestly just refreshed to speak with an LA native who can speak English.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:33 AM   #22
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Looks like some are running with high quench like me and not having issues. That's a relief. Hopefully with my very mild engine it will be a non-issue.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
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snip

Total $2484

The cost definitely adds up fast! And you got some good pricing on the machining. I'll have to save my pennies for a while.

Great progress - I'm sure you can't wait to be driving it again!
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:20 PM   #24
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Wombat. Great pics!!! I'm rebuilding a 4.0 right now. Curious what bolts you used to mate the block to the engine stand? I know it sounds minor but I had some issues finding grade 8 that fit the block. I ended up going with 3/8-16 course thread. I'm not even very satisfied with the bottom bolts. seemed like that had too much play. Wondering if I got the wrong thread pitch. I tried everything the auto shop sold.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:40 PM   #25
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I took a bellhousing bolt from both top and bottom to the Homes Depot and found stuff that would work. In hindsight know I should have gotten grade 8, but it never fell off thankfully. A fully loaded I6 puts a lot of leverage on those things.

@StanF Yes cost's do add up, but some of it wasn't even related to the engine build. Engine bracket kit, HEI Conversion, ARP studs come to mind quick as things that could have been skipped, and that is well over $500 right there.

Yea I cannot wait to drive this thing again. I bought it in August, got the carb/vacuum issues sorted, wheeled it once, and tore it apart in september for this motor. Here we are in december and I do miss driving it. It snowed today and I couldn't take it out and play.

Now I am dealing with the little things in the swap. I went to George the Jeep's this morning looking for an AX15 mount bracket, no luck. He was able to hook me up with an idler pully bracket with the dummy for the AC though. I am going over to a friends to make the Tranny bracket I need in his shop. I picked up an inline electric fuel pump last night, need to install that too. Then gotta get an oil pressure gauge on, prime the engine, set the distributor timing, and see how she sounds!
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:19 AM   #26
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Well all my parts chasing and modifying that went into the tranny mount was pretty much a bust. What I tried to make work did not. I gave it a rest after basically putting my whole day towards trying to get that tranny bolted down and went to work on the engine bay.


Serpentine belt and pullys installed and tight.


Got the power steering lines hooked up.


Intake wiring/throttle cable/brake booster tube


Heater core coolant lines





I know it's a boring update, but after wasting the whole day on that tranny mount problem it was nice to make some headway tonight.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:26 AM   #27
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Good work!
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1989 Base YJ, 4.2l bored .03 over, Borla exhaust, offy intake, Motorcraft 2150 carb (soon a howell TBI kit), HEI ignition, nv3550, nv241or with 4:1 low ,D44 with ox locker & Ford 8.8 with lsd both with 4.10 gearing, Skyjacker 4" Double wrap lift, and Boom Shackles.
Build Thread: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f330/fi...ld-385106.html
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:43 PM   #28
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Looks Good Ranger, running that High of Compression you may need to use a higher Octane fuel, Sorry I couldn't say some thing sooner, I did not see your build in time.
I really Do Hope it works out well and please let me know.
Most builds, they mill the bowls deeper in the pistons and deck the block down or buy, Keith Black Custom Pistons $$$$.$$! Let Me Know!

Speaking English in Louisiana? Ha, Ha, I once move to Mississippi and found I had raised the Language Skills in Two States with one move. LOL I'm Far from an English Major!
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:10 AM   #29
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I hope it all works out okay too, but I am preparing myself for the possibility that I might be pulling the engine for another round of machine work. The mild cam grind brings the dynamic comp ratio in the high 7's low 8's so I am hoping that works to my advantage. However as previously stated I really have no idea what I am talking about.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:07 AM   #30
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Nice work so far....Who made the motor mounts?

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1995 YJ / New in 2013 Build Link
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/je...ld-333681.html
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