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Old 03-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #1
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Immovable Hinge Bolts

I'm swapping out the hinge bolts on my doors. But a few of them refuse to come loose.

Since they were stripped and rusty, I let some penetrating oil soak in before using an easy out. The bolt was so stuck, that the extractor bolt snapped. I then drilled that out, let more oil soak, applied heat, and used another easy out. It gripped, but wasn't enough to loosen the bolt.

Now the hole inside the bolt is wide enough that I probably only have one attempt left. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions?

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Old 03-07-2012, 05:03 PM   #2
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I ran into the exact same thing. I made up a drawing of how I did it to help simplify the explanation. Hopefully the image will load and be helpful. I just made it up in paint.

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Old 03-07-2012, 07:05 PM   #3
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I weld a 1/4-20 x 1 inch bolt to the stripped bolt then use a socket on it and the heat from welding migrates down the bolt to help loosen it....I learned this trick from stripped loctited flat heads on my chopper brake rotors.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:24 AM   #4
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Definitely a great option also kmanator, if you have access to a welder and know how. I didn't have neither, so improvised.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:13 AM   #5
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Great advice guys. I don't have access to a welder, but maybe I know someone who does. I'll try to get this finished this weekend.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who's run into this problem.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:26 AM   #6
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Is there still enough metal left on the stuck bolt head that you can drive an allen/torqx head into it with a hammer? If yes then using a hand impact tool smack it with a 3lb hammer and it just might come loose.

I have used this trick on many a motorcycle part that just won't loose any other way.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:18 PM   #7
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I think there is still enough metal left on the head to try the impact tool. I might as well try, since it probably can't make things worse. Another good idea. Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:06 PM   #8
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If you can get some of this

FreeAllOil.com - Free All Deep Penetrating Oil, Lubricant & Rust Breaker!

it would help. So much better than PB or Kroil or any homemade acetone recipes. Most body shops have the stuff, and I get it through an industrial supply place here in Boston.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #9
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Use a torch to heat up the bolt and you should be able to get it out.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:06 AM   #10
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Are you swapping out the hinges and the bolts or just the bolts. That could be important if you don't want to mess up the hinge paint with heat or grinding clean to weld. Just curious. As far as the impact, just be careful not to dent the door with striking pressure. I think it's only 18 gauge, and hitting it that hard could cause denting.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:20 PM   #11
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I've already tried a torch. Surprisingly it didn't work.I plan on keeping the hinges. Although I'll probably repaint them and the doors.

The doors aren't in that great of shape right now. They make a tight seal, and the windows (mostly) work, but there's some rust that I'll have to bondo over, so I'm not too worried about some dents.

Hopefully I'll have time to try out some of everyone's advice tonight.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:35 PM   #12
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The shop I took my jeep to had to use an air chisel to get them off.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:35 PM   #13
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Hopefully it won't come down to it, but how much did the shop charge you to remove the bolts?

I've already spent almost as much money on these bolts as the doors cost me. Granted I only paid $115 for the set, and I needed a torch, and a set of easy out's anyway, but still.

New bolts $12
Torch $20
Easy Outs $15
Oil $5
Drill bits $5 (because I skillfully broke a couple)
Running Total - $57 + tax
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:08 PM   #14
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Project nightmare continues. Impact drive isn't enough to budge these bolts. When that didn't work, I bought a a set of heavy duty extractors and snapped the thickest bit in the bolt. At a loss here.

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Old 03-09-2012, 09:35 PM   #15
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See post #2. It literally took 5-6 minutes per bolt. And a shot of WD-40 every 30 seconds or so to keep the bit cool and lubed.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:58 AM   #16
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Yeah, that's probably solid advice. But I know once I do that, its my last option. So I guess I'm just afraid to f that up.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:45 PM   #17
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I completely understand being apprehensive. But, once that head comes off, you lose all of the resistance that bolt has to offer. The whole underside of the bolt head where it is rusted isn't stopping you from turning the remaining threaded piece. Heck, you could even 3/16 hole on the second step and still use an easy out to move it. And truthfully, I've bought several sets of easy outs over the years both kinds that you've used so far, and I have no small ones, because the ALWAYS break. I can't honestly remember if I had a single success with one, especially in such a rusted situation. Have no fear grasshopper!
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:17 PM   #18
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Dutch, I tried your tactic and it worked with mixed success. It was working really well, but I can't drill through the last 3 bolts. I've tried hammering a pin to start the hole, different sized bits, etc, but I can't get further than l2 mm into the bolt.

I'm using a cobalt bit right now. Should I try something else?
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:23 PM   #19
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Can't drill through as in too hard? Hmmmm...is the bit dull? Did you keep it lubed? Cobalt bits are wicked hard. Are the heads off all bolts? Use lots of WD40 and medium drill speed. Too fast could dull the bit too.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:51 PM   #20
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A hardware store near me was closing, so I picked up an extra set of titanium bits, and couple of cobalt bits. But I'm still stuck on the last 3 bolts, with virtually no progress.

I tried keeping it lubed with WD40, but won't that keep the bit from gripping?
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:18 PM   #21
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No, when machine shops do any metal cutting work, they always use lubricant. I trying to think of why you wouldn't be able to get the bits to cut those bolts. Bits don't have chips on edges of the tips from drilling previous holes? Cobalt or titanium should easily cut the material if they are sharp.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch 95
No, when machine shops do any metal cutting work, they always use lubricant. I trying to think of why you wouldn't be able to get the bits to cut those bolts. Bits don't have chips on edges of the tips from drilling previous holes? Cobalt or titanium should easily cut the material if they are sharp.
Not so much lubricant, but rather coolant. Oil or wd40 or what ever ( depending on material cutting) is used to keep thing cools thus preventing your bit from losing its edge or to keep soft materials like alumn from melting and sticking to you bit or cutter filling up the flutes.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:23 AM   #23
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Hi.. Not sure if you got this fixed yet... I was experiencing the some problem with the Torx Bolts on the Windshield hinges... I went to my local parts store and bought a "Step Drill Bit 1/4" - 3/4" cost about $14.99 and it worked like a charm. Took the heads right off. Ohh yea and kept putting Wd-40 it!
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corteasy
Hi.. Not sure if you got this fixed yet... I was experiencing the some problem with the Torx Bolts on the Windshield hinges... I went to my local parts store and bought a "Step Drill Bit 1/4" - 3/4" cost about $14.99 and it worked like a charm. Took the heads right off. Ohh yea and kept putting Wd-40 it!
Those work very well!!
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:00 PM   #25
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No, I still haven't fixed this. I took a little hiatus with this, because the zero progress had me just a little frustrated.

I'll see if I can't pick up "Step Drill Bit".

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll figure this out eventually.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #26
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Slow speed and oil

Kungfu, as stated above, the drill speed needs to be slow and steady with a fair amount of oil applied every so often. I'd like to add to the suggestions above, that if the bolt is jagged which in your picture it appears to be. Start your drill at an angle until it gets a little hole started. Also, start with a small drill bit and work up after you have a starting point.

Patience is the key here, Good Luck and take deep breaths and none of this

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Old 03-19-2012, 08:51 PM   #27
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Hey fellers, I hate to sound like that guy, but:

1. NEVER use WD40 with machine (metal drilling) bits. You want to keep the bit cool to keep from tempering or "burning" the tip, which will "melt" the cutting edge and angle of the bit. It is better to use regular water than WD40, as WD was engineered to reduce friction, and drilling is using friction to remove material. Nothing at all is actually better than WD40. Bottom line, WD makes your bit (and drill) work harder than they have to and damages the tip of your bits. Machine shops use what is called "Cutting FLUID" (although it is oftentimes mislabeled as oil) and should be readily available, especially through real tool companies(not the big box guys).

2. Most (all) drills spin FASTER than you want to drill. If you cant see the splines of the bit as it turns individually, you are drilling too fast, and will burn up the bit. You want to see the looong stringy q's that fall off your bit as you drill. If it is "flaking", you are drilling too fast.

3. When drilling metal, especially hard metal (bolts, frames, etc), use only Cobalt drill bits. Any thing else will not be hard enough to survive more than a couple holes, and then you push harder, making your drill/bit/hand work more, then the bit brakes, we've all been there

4. Difficult to find, but several tool company sell them (Snap-on, Matco, MAC, Harbor Freight, Grainger, Irwin - NOT HD OR LOWES) - Left hand drill bits. They cut as they turn counter clockwise, exerting "unscrew" (or lefty loosy) force, usually removing the stuck fastener, if not you've got your hole to extract.

Failing a left hand bit, you may have to cut the bolt exact and use thread "chasers" or restoring taps (as opposed to standard machinist taps) to reinforce the threads that you nick with the bit. That's likely what any shop will do.

Again, not trying to sound like that guy, but I've made a lot of holes in things, and used to be a Snap-on man for 8 years. Follow this and your holes will be happy and your bits will last long enough to need a sharpener!

Left hand drill bit sets:

Toolweb - search "left hand drill bits" - multiple sources, not resale but will give you an idea of who makes the off brands you can buy on the interwebs

Snap-on LH bit set

Matco Tools left hand bits

Irwins web site, you can search for a retailer

Remember, Irwin(Hanson) makes nearly ALL drill bits sold in the US of any quality, including those that come off the tool trucks. There are some MINOR differences, but they are the same bits from the SAME plant.

Hope this helps.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:59 PM   #28
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BlueRidge, thank you for the tip, you just taught me something, the left hand drill bit.

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Old 03-19-2012, 09:50 PM   #29
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NP Fuseman, my pleasure.

The step bits you should look for, if going that route, are "Unibit", by - who else? Irwin. There are China knokoffs, not worth it.
If you want to step drill metal, you need to use a step bit, such as a Unibit. Using regular HSS or Cobalt HSS bits will give them a shoulder on the angle, negating the cutting plane of the bit. If any body wants more info on metal drilling, send me a msg. I won't take up any more space

Good Luck!

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Old 03-19-2012, 10:42 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRidgeYJ View Post
Hey fellers, I hate to sound like that guy, but:

1. NEVER use WD40 with machine (metal drilling) bits. You want to keep the bit cool to keep from tempering or "burning" the tip, which will "melt" the cutting edge and angle of the bit. It is better to use regular water than WD40, as WD was engineered to reduce friction, and drilling is using friction to remove material. Nothing at all is actually better than WD40. Bottom line, WD makes your bit (and drill) work harder than they have to and damages the tip of your bits. Machine shops use what is called "Cutting FLUID" (although it is oftentimes mislabeled as oil) and should be readily available, especially through real tool companies(not the big box guys).

2. Most (all) drills spin FASTER than you want to drill. If you cant see the splines of the bit as it turns individually, you are drilling too fast, and will burn up the bit. You want to see the looong stringy q's that fall off your bit as you drill. If it is "flaking", you are drilling too fast.

3. When drilling metal, especially hard metal (bolts, frames, etc), use only Cobalt drill bits. Any thing else will not be hard enough to survive more than a couple holes, and then you push harder, making your drill/bit/hand work more, then the bit brakes, we've all been there

4. Difficult to find, but several tool company sell them (Snap-on, Matco, MAC, Harbor Freight, Grainger, Irwin - NOT HD OR LOWES) - Left hand drill bits. They cut as they turn counter clockwise, exerting "unscrew" (or lefty loosy) force, usually removing the stuck fastener, if not you've got your hole to extract.

Failing a left hand bit, you may have to cut the bolt exact and use thread "chasers" or restoring taps (as opposed to standard machinist taps) to reinforce the threads that you nick with the bit. That's likely what any shop will do.

Again, not trying to sound like that guy, but I've made a lot of holes in things, and used to be a Snap-on man for 8 years. Follow this and your holes will be happy and your bits will last long enough to need a sharpener!

Left hand drill bit sets:

Toolweb - search "left hand drill bits" - multiple sources, not resale but will give you an idea of who makes the off brands you can buy on the interwebs

Snap-on LH bit set

Matco Tools left hand bits

Irwins web site, you can search for a retailer

Remember, Irwin(Hanson) makes nearly ALL drill bits sold in the US of any quality, including those that come off the tool trucks. There are some MINOR differences, but they are the same bits from the SAME plant.

Hope this helps.

Great tips, specially lefty drill bits, Ill be getting a set of those.

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