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Old 10-03-2011, 06:50 PM   #1
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Loose clutch, bummer.

I just brought my 94 YJ on its first ride to the tire store after I just got it running again.

Now that I haven't driven it in 4 weeks I've noticed the clutch hangs so loose it's almost touching the floor!

It shifts & engages just fine, albeit I only have to push the pedal down about 2 inches to shift.

Because I'm not having trouble shifting, is there a way I can adjust the pedal or should I take it to the mechanic?

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Old 10-03-2011, 07:22 PM   #2
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Check fluid then bleed. If that don't work new clutch master, if still no the clutch slave.

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Old 10-03-2011, 08:32 PM   #3
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I just replaced my clutch master. However, mine would not even go into gear. I tried bleeding it to no avail. New master is a pretty easy install and bleeding it was easier than expected. Definitely a DIY job.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:06 AM   #4
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Happy to hear, thanks for the info!
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:49 AM   #5
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Wow Brohawk, you're gonna be quite the Jeep mechanic before all this is over! I would have to second the bleed-master-slave comment. Good Luck.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:57 AM   #6
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I look at your description and wonder what you mean by "it hangs so loose it is almost touching the floor". Two possible situations come to mind. One is that the clutch pedal operates through it's full motion but it doesn't disengage until near the floor. This may indicate that fluid is slipping past the master cylinder or you have air in the hydraulic line to the slave.

If the pedal literally hangs out near the floor then it is not master/slave/fluid. It is mechanical and I would be looking at pivot point and spring return on the pedal. Once the pedal is operating through it's full range of motion, then the master/slave/fluid come into play.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk'n
I look at your description and wonder what you mean by "it hangs so loose it is almost touching the floor". Two possible situations come to mind. One is that the clutch pedal operates through it's full motion but it doesn't disengage until near the floor. This may indicate that fluid is slipping past the master cylinder or you have air in the hydraulic line to the slave.

If the pedal literally hangs out near the floor then it is not master/slave/fluid. It is mechanical and I would be looking at pivot point and spring return on the pedal. Once the pedal is operating through it's full range of motion, then the master/slave/fluid come into play.
I wouldn't say it operates through it's full motion; it rests near 2 inches above the floor of the jeep, & only engages in those 2 inches. If I remember correctly, it used to engage for at least 6 inches, 8 inches, what a "normal" clutch would.

I'll check mechanical first. I've never done any of this before so I'm still learning a lot about what it means to be a jeep owner.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brohawk View Post
I wouldn't say it operates through it's full motion; it rests near 2 inches above the floor of the jeep, & only engages in those 2 inches. If I remember correctly, it used to engage for at least 6 inches, 8 inches, what a "normal" clutch would.

I'll check mechanical first. I've never done any of this before so I'm still learning a lot about what it means to be a jeep owner.
If that is the case, check all mountings to the fire wall too. It sounds like something became loose from its mounting point or a return spring is broken. As well as looking at pivot points in the linkage. Everything up to the master cylinder that is mounted on the firewall. Give it a good look-see while operating the pedal looking for abnormal items. It is mechanical and basically a set of levers and springs.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:24 PM   #9
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great suggestions, but as always... check your fluid before tearing anything apart. Fill it, pump it and away you go. See if it brings it back to a better height. If not, then yeah, have 'er checked out.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk'n

If that is the case, check all mountings to the fire wall too. It sounds like something became loose from its mounting point or a return spring is broken. As well as looking at pivot points in the linkage. Everything up to the master cylinder that is mounted on the firewall. Give it a good look-see while operating the pedal looking for abnormal items. It is mechanical and basically a set of levers and springs.
I just checked the fluid, it's full.

Tomorrow I will look at the mechanical workings of the springs & whatnot. I don't have time right now but I did feel around up there for a bit and nothing I could feel (silly I know) felt loose or missing.

But I need info: what should the top of the clutch pedal look like/how should it be configured/how would I know something was missing?

My Haynes has omitted this info. If it is in the manual let me know, because I'm uncertain what to look for.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:51 PM   #11
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:22 PM   #12
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I'm going to bleed the clutch today...I would if I could find the damn bleeder screw.

Reports on the internet seem mixed: they say the cylinder and slave became one in the 93 models, but that my 94 should have them separate. Other people with 94's have them both separate and together.

I am certain mine are separate but I don't know what the slave cylinder looks like when I get under my Jeep. I'm looking for a bleeder screw on the passenger's side near the transmission housing, but I don't know which screw it is, or what the slave looks like.

The last thing I read said it is about an inch in diameter and about 4 inches long, that the screw will be on that. Screw Haynes and their shitty B&W undetailed pictures!
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:54 PM   #13
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Yeah, I have no idea what I'm looking for. Halp!

edit: my Haynes says post 94 models have the master and slave as one assembly but it doesn't illustrate more than one way to bleed the slave.

Can I bleed my slave if they are comprised of one assembly?
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:21 PM   #14
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You've gotta be fucking me! I found the slave on the driver's side of the transmission housing. WTF?
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:35 PM   #15
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LOL....there it is!!
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:56 PM   #16
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LOL....there it is!!
Right where the manual said it would be.
Now I can't get the allen screw out.

Typical.
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Old 10-08-2011, 07:07 PM   #17
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In 93 they started putting the slave outside the bell housing. I'm putting a transmission from a 2000 in my 92 tomorrow. Just got everything disconnected today but had to quit because of darkness. I'm swapping the bell housing from my 92 over to the 2000 specifically because of this issue. If the slave were still on the bell housing for the 2000 and the bolts matched up, I might have tried to go with the newer setup. It is a lot easier to change out a slave on the 93 and newer transmissions. The slave cylinder is on the driver's side if it is on the outside of the bell housing and the bleeder valve is at the top of it.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk'n
In 93 they started putting the slave outside the bell housing. I'm putting a transmission from a 2000 in my 92 tomorrow. Just got everything disconnected today but had to quit because of darkness. I'm swapping the bell housing from my 92 over to the 2000 specifically because of this issue. If the slave were still on the bell housing for the 2000 and the bolts matched up, I might have tried to go with the newer setup. It is a lot easier to change out a slave on the 93 and newer transmissions. The slave cylinder is on the driver's side if it is on the outside of the bell housing and the bleeder valve is at the top of it.
Yeah, I found it but I couldn't get the bleeder to open. I'll have to jack it up tomorrow & try again.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:44 PM   #19
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Be sure the allen wrench fits securely before starting to crank in it. I have a set of allen wrenches that fit on my ratchet. I find that type works great. You might also use an awl to give the allen head a good cleaning to make sure that the wrench goes in a good distance.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:47 PM   #20
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I can't for the life of me get this bleeder screw out. I'm just going to go ahead & replace the slave.

Should I replace the master at the same time or wait?
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:12 PM   #21
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Bolts on the slave won't come off, my brother is shaving new corners into them as I type.

Any tricks for getting the master slave pin out? Ugh.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:23 PM   #22
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I would start by using six sided wrenches and sockets while trying to loosen nuts and bolts. I have had such poor results using 12 pointed sockets and wrenches, I have almost completely sworn off of using them. I've completely refurbished my wrenches and sockets, all six pointed. That being said, I usually get the results I want now. The only bolts and nuts I usually get in trouble with now are ones on exhaust systems. Mostly I am able to break them free but occasionally I break one or round the corners. For that my plan is to get a good cutoff grinder. My secondary problem is re-assembly. I just picked up a thread restorer set from Craftsman and that set has already earned its keep. Re-assembly is a lot easier with freshly cleaned threads.

Regarding getting things apart, when a bolt or nut breaks free the temptation is to just back the bolt right out or the nut completely off without stopping. If you work it back and forth with some lubricant like WD40 it may take longer but you will generally get the bolt or nut undone without breaking the bolt or stud. If you undo it without stopping, the corrosion on the threads will build inside the nut or tapped hole and eventually bind the bolt to the point of breaking. Working it back and forth gives the rust buildup a chance to be pulverized and not build up and bind.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:12 PM   #23
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He finally got one bolt off; we'll get the other tomorrow.

I happily report that after replacing the master, the pedal rests level with the brake! Hurrah!

Thanks for your input concerning the bolt removal. I appreciate your input.
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Old 10-09-2011, 09:19 PM   #24
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They started putting the slave outside in 93? My '93 has it in the bellhousing. Must have been a mid year switch and I have earlier. Now I'm jealous, lol. Though as long as it doesn't go bad before my next clutch I don't care. Or I could look at it the other way... when my slave goes bad it's time for a new clutch!
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:12 PM   #25
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They started putting the slave outside in 93? My '93 has it in the bellhousing. Must have been a mid year switch and I have earlier. Now I'm jealous, lol. Though as long as it doesn't go bad before my next clutch I don't care. Or I could look at it the other way... when my slave goes bad it's time for a new clutch!
I read in the Haynes manual that the change came in model year 93. I almost got an external on my 92 because of my transmission change. Since I just replaced the slave on the clutch job a month ago, the newer transmission out of a 2000 TJ had a throwout bearing that was not very smooth and the slave cylinder was missing off of the bell housing....so....I decided to swap the bell housing from the 92 over to the newer transmission and keep the internal slave. When I rebuild the old transmission I may set it up with a new slave and throughout bearing in preparation for being swapped back in. I'm not hearing very good things about the AX5 as far as longevity. One thing I will say is that after 20 years of service most folks don't keep a very good eye on things like seals and the shifter riser rubber dust cap. I think that is what did my transmission in. Too much road sand got into the transmission by these things going bad. Twenty years out of one transmission (if that was the original) over 95,000 miles isn't too bad though.
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:42 PM   #26
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Jk'n, I have a question for you:
This project started because I couldn't get the bleeder screw out of the currently installed slave, but on the new slave I purchased today, the area where the bleeder screw would attach is sealed. There are screw threads present but even if I didn't put a screw in, it appears as though nothing would leak.

Do I not need to bleed but just "pump" out the air w/ the master cylinder cap off?
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:30 PM   #27
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Conclusion: if you ever have a question about changing the external slave or master in a 94 YJ, PM me.

As far as bleeding it goes, if you're installing a new slave w/o a bleeder screw, which is how they're likely made now, just pump the bejesus out of the clutch. You'll eventually see bubbles in the master & feel the clutch tighten up.

Thanks y'all.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:13 PM   #28
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Sounds like you got it under control. While you were working on yours, I was bleeding mine prior to putting it back on the road after a transmission replacement. Bleeding mine went without issue. The new transmission is solid in all gears. Not bad for a $150.00 gamble purchase on Craig's list.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:54 AM   #29
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Brohawk, on any bolts or screws on a jeep, especially an old one, spray them liberally with PB blaster and let it soak overnight....then spray again before trying to take them out....it's the best stuff i've found for loosening rusted nuts and bolts...

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