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Old 12-17-2016, 04:56 PM   #1
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Please help!!! timing issues making me crazy!!!!

Need help with my 92 wrangler 4.0L.
I bought the jeep about 2 years ago knowing that the engine was running on borrowed time, but i got a good deal on it. I went to pull-a-part (do it yourself junk yard in bham) and pulled an engine out of a 95 cherokee. I stripped it down to the short block and decided it looked good enough to not mess with. So i just had the head reworked and resealed the motor. i pulled the old motor out and installed the rebuilt one, timed it (correctly), hooked it all up, and nothing happened. I retimed it, this time one tooth off and it starts. it idled terribly and shook pretty bad until you raved it to about 1000 rpm. i drove it down the street and when i accelerate it has no power. so obviously still out of time. i took it back home and retimed it dozen different times, a dozen different ways and it still won't run when you put it in time properly. it tries to start but won't.

All of the ignition parts (distributor, coil, cam sensor) are from the 92 motor and it ran fine - ignition wise anyway, so I'm wondering if there is a computer or compatibility issues with the 95 motor on the 92 setup? anyone have this issue before? are different year 4.0L's timed differently? I'm pretty positive the timing gears were installed right but haven't pulled the cover back of to verify. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-17-2016, 05:31 PM   #2
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These motors are supposed to time themselves. Your supposed to have everything set up at 0* btdc without it running.

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Old 12-17-2016, 05:54 PM   #3
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Correct, the computer controls the "in real time" timing adjustment, but I'm referring to when i set the distributor in the motor at 0* tdc of the compression stroke with the ignition rotor pointed at the #1 cylinder pin on the distributor cap, It won't start. but if its a few degrees btdc, it will start and run but not good.
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:13 PM   #4
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Well I know cherokee 4.0l's came with a slightly better cam than the wranglers, but that shouldn't be causing these kind of issues. There is also an alignment hole on the distributor you put a punch through when installing. Make sure the notch in your harmonic balancer is lined up at zero while on the compression stroke and install the distributor with the a punch in the alignment hole, here's a picture showing what I mean.



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Old 12-17-2016, 09:15 PM   #5
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The 91-99 wrangler get timing info to PCM two ways

First and main is the crank position sensor in tranny bell which lets PCM know where crank is relative to TDC via three distinct sets of bumps or slots on the edge of the flywheel and an asymmetric circle of bolts that only allow mounting of flywheel to crank in one position

This however fails to tell PCM if the TDC is on compression or exhaust stroke

This is where to sensor half circle in the dust comes in

Since the fuel injection is sequential that sensor tells PCM which of the two crank rotations of the four stroke cycle it is in

It is not touchy at all just needs to be not out 180 degrees

Lastly the order of the plug wires in cap makes sure the properly timed spark (from crank sensor marks) goes to correct plug in firing order


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Old 12-17-2016, 09:28 PM   #6
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My guess is you have a timing chain that got loose and jumped a tooth and cam no longer properly timed with crank

Otherwise spark plug wires off at cap or injector wires out of order

I once played a joke on my bud with his 440 road runner and moved all the plug wires around one spot

He could tell it was timing and rotated distributor till it barely ran and then he figured it out




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Old 12-17-2016, 10:06 PM   #7
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attached is a pic of my distributor. its not like the pic you have at all but has always worked great on my 92 motor. wonder if the different cam in the cherokee motor requires a cherokee distributor. that makes sense.

Btw, if you're gonna throw out something like check to see if the wires are on the right plugs or the injectors are plugged up wrong, then please don't comment. I understand those are often problems for the unseasoned do it yourselfer, but thats not the case here, i assure you.
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:12 PM   #8
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Well mr seasoned perhaps the other picture is a similar distributor taken a little further apart

I have no idea what you do or do not know or what you have checked so sorry for helping

The Cherokee 4.0 same year uses same distributor

Perhaps your timing chain jumped a tooth on the old tires non running engine you bought

Perhaps that is why it was in the junk yard as it stopped running

But as you already know all I leave you to it






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Old 12-17-2016, 10:37 PM   #9
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91-93 XJ and YJ same part number for distributor

http://www.morris4x4center.com/distr...-53006150.html


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Old 12-17-2016, 10:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jajones1984 View Post
attached is a pic of my distributor. its not like the pic you have at all but has always worked great on my 92 motor. wonder if the different cam in the cherokee motor requires a cherokee distributor. that makes sense.

Btw, if you're gonna throw out something like check to see if the wires are on the right plugs or the injectors are plugged up wrong, then please don't comment. I understand those are often problems for the unseasoned do it yourselfer, but thats not the case here, i assure you.
It is the same distributor, just need to pull those 2 bolts off the cover. Just look up the alignment hole because the 4cyl and 6cyl use the same base distributor but have different alignment holes
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:58 PM   #11
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Also from the picture, your coil to distributor cap wire looks bad
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:04 PM   #12
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Don't mean to sound like a jerk just tired of this mess. I assumed the cherokee was in the junkyard because the rear was caved in but who knows.

I replaced all the basics when i had it torn down. Timing gear set, oil pump, water pump are all brand new. it is possible i timed the new chain off a bit, but the way you time these motors is so basic its not even funny. may pull the cover off and double check tomorrow if no other appealing ideas come to light.

And no thats a completely different distributor than mine. i bought it from o'reilly's when i first got the jeep and had no issues with it but i think its an updated one.
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:06 PM   #13
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the wire is fine, just a bad angle in the pic.
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:23 AM   #14
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Well if you replaced and know you did it right then it is not the issue. Hard for me to know what you have done.

When rotating the dist goes from no run to barely runs it makes me remember the wire off one story

This will clarify the YJXJ ZJ 4.0 91-93 dist vs the YJ TJ XJ ZJ 4.0 dist used 94-99

http://www.xjtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9111


If rotating dist makes it better still have the same ideas I posted before


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Old 12-18-2016, 11:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger84 View Post
My guess is you have a timing chain that got loose and jumped a tooth and cam no longer properly timed with crank

Otherwise spark plug wires off at cap or injector wires out of order

I once played a joke on my bud with his 440 road runner and moved all the plug wires around one spot

He could tell it was timing and rotated distributor till it barely ran and then he figured it out




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That's what it sounds like to me. If the timing chain is installed properly and the distributor is installed properly, and the wires are installed properly and not arching or cross firing there's not much else.

I would not be driving it in the present condition.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:32 PM   #16
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jajones1984 it sounds like we're having the exact same problem here. I just completely rebuilt my 2.5 and it actually started up and I was driving the damn thing home but it felt like it was lacking power and suddenly I heard a loud pop and it started running rough and sounded like it had open headers. Last night I changed injectors, tried 4 different plugs because they get soaked with gas in random cylinders when i try to crank it, got a new distributor cap and rotor button, and throttle position sensor. Ran diagnostics here and there - 40 psi at fuel rail, 90 psi in cylinders 2, 3, and 4 but 40 psi in #1. Messed around with the vacuum system, changed fuses, and even pissed into the wind advancing and retarding timing to no effect. It gave me a #11 code so I'm about to go out and clean the crank position sensor, somehow test the ignition coil, and open up the distributor hoping i can find something so wrong that it HAS to be the problem. Let me know if you find anything because she is my daily driver and has been out of action for 3 months now.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:33 PM   #17
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If anyone else has an idea please weigh in!! I'll owe you a case
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:30 AM   #18
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Here is a pic of the wires and timing order they are in. according to my haynes manual this is the correct firing order and should not be the problem. please let me know if it's one wire off.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:05 PM   #19
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Guess everybody's out of ideas since all the easy stuff is covered huh?
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:05 PM   #20
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I have been in the automobile repair business all my adult life.
One thing I know is that even the most seasoned and experienced technician can make a mistake or have a brain fart.

My suggestion to you is to pull the timing cover off and check the timing chain. If that is correct (count the number of links between the teeth...your FSM will tell you how) then proceed to the distributor. The #4 post by c5wagner shows a distributor being aligned with a punch. My 4.2 is different so I am unsure if the distributor you have will have the alignment hole. I suggest that you take it apart far enough to check.

What condition is your vibration dampener in. If the rubber between the inner hub and the outer ring deteriorates, the outer ring can move and provide a false TDC.

You mention a Haynes manual. While the published info in the Haynes manual is probably correct as far as the firing order location goes, I would consider the information in a Factory Service Manual to be more reliable. MudMagnetYJ has a link to several FSMs in his signature.
You can buy your very own FSM on CD online from Bishko Books. About $40.00.

Let us know what you find.

Good Luck, L.M.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:40 AM   #21
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if the balancer was off then the notch on it wouldnt be matched up when i set it at top dead center by using a screw driver in the #1 spark plug hole. and yes i made sure it was on the compression stroke. I guess ill have to check the timing gears. Thats the only possible scenario in my mind at this point. Thanks for all the help i'll let y'all know asap.
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Old 01-07-2017, 02:34 AM   #22
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Found out my problem was the cam position sensor (pickup coil in the distributor). Make dead sure your mechanical timing is correct then look at your distributor. Don't take it to Mopar of you don't have to. Bless them for figuring mine out quick as cards but damn it ain't cheap. Especially to find out the problem was the cps I had replaced a week earlier....which is why I thought it wasn't the problem.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_choch_95 View Post
Found out my problem was the cam position sensor (pickup coil in the distributor). Make dead sure your mechanical timing is correct then look at your distributor. Don't take it to Mopar of you don't have to. Bless them for figuring mine out quick as cards but damn it ain't cheap. Especially to find out the problem was the cps I had replaced a week earlier....which is why I thought it wasn't the problem.
Was the CPS that you installed a new OEM Mopar or aftermarket?

Good Luck, L.M.
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:47 PM   #24
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It all sounds like the timing chain is a touch off.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:05 PM   #25
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Luckymac, I am on my phone and don't know how to quote you, so I don't know if this will reach you, but the original cps I put on was Duralast, and the one that Jeep installed was NAPA. The Napa one was $100 compared to the $40 Duralost...that might have something to do with it!
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:18 PM   #26
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Yep, not a chooch 95, I've had better luck at NAPA as far as quality of parts than some other auto parts stores.
Other posters here claim that Rock Auto has quality parts at better prices. I haven't shopped at Rock Auto, so I don't know.

Good Luck, L.M.

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