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Old 05-01-2013, 12:03 PM   #7801
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HA!! That'll teach me! I live in Mebane, so I'll travel anywhere! Especially weekdays...they seem to be more open than the weekend rides...

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:25 PM   #7802
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Only requirement is that you are a law abiding citizen and it's your gun. As long as it is in open view and not concealed absolutely no other legal obligations or permits needed. I've got the middle console and tuffy box to lock it up when I'm out of the jeep, but I like having it so close and readily available when I'm in the jeep. As crazy as the world is getting now I'd feel a hell of a lot better if more level headed people, especially most jeepers I know, would do the same!
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Yup, the bolded language is key.

I didn't read the DOJ booklet cover-to-cover, but it looked to me like you run into problems when you do not have a concealed carry permit ("CCP") and nevertheless have a weapon that's (a) concealed and (b) readily accessible.

The main issue is that there seems to be a lot of flexibility in what it means for a weapon to be "concealed." I would expect a pistol stashed under your dash like Wester's would certainly qualify. No officer writing you a ticket would know it was there. And even if a court ultimately concluded that it wasn't "concealed," I have no doubt a police officer would have little trouble arresting you if he somehow realized you had it halfway through a traffic stop and you were unable to present a CCP.

Of course if you have a CCP, then it's moot whether the weapon is "concealed"--you're authorized by law to conceal a weapon. So no getting arrested there.

Thus, the best solution in my view would be to have a CCP if you intend to travel with your weapon in any way that leaves the gun accessible to you without being in "plain sight." If you don't have a CCP, keep it in the trunk or in plain sight on (not under) the seat or on top of (not under) the dash.

I'd definitely want a CCP on me if I was going to travel with Wester's set up. Absent a CCP, I would not store a weapon on the underside of your dash, under your seat, in your coat, in a pocket, in your glovebox, under a sweatshirt, etc. Without a CCP, the weapon has to be kept in such a way that either (a) you can't easily get to it or (b) it is immediately and obviously evident to anybody who looks into your vehicle.

Just my two cents.
My set up would not require a concealed carry permit since it is in open view to an officer if he were to stop you and look in the window. However, I never try to fly under the radar, if I'm stopped the very first thing I tell the officer is that I have a gun and show it to him. Before I had this strap I would always just lay it on the dash, hell most officers are pretty cool and enjoy looking at the guns! Even got out of a few tickets by talking about guns!

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Old 05-01-2013, 12:39 PM   #7803
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^ You wonder though...

I mean if you have a gun like the one you have Wester and stored the way you do that when you pull it out to "put it on the dash" the officer or officers who are walking up to your jeep don't panic and think your reaching for a weapon and freak out. Honestly, this is the only thing that would really worry me about this set up. I agree with it whole heatedly though. Nothing wrong with having a gun on you or in your jeep. It's just that sometimes officers (and you don't know who or what kind of day they've had) can make really bad calls. They are human and just like us..make mistakes. One could pull his gun and start yelling or start firing if he sees you pull out a gun or handling a gun while he/she is approaching the vehicle. This is something that none of us can control unfortunately, how they may respond each time.

Makes you think.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:44 PM   #7804
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^ You wonder though...

I mean if you have a gun like the one you have Wester and stored the way you do that when you pull it out to "put it on the dash" the officer or officers who are walking up to your jeep don't panic and think your reaching for a weapon and freak out. Honestly, this is the only thing that would really worry me about this set up. I agree with it whole heatedly though. Nothing wrong with having a gun on you or in your jeep. It's just that sometimes officers (and you don't know who or what kind of day they've had) can make really bad calls. They are human and just like us..make mistakes. One could pull his gun and start yelling or start firing if he sees you pull out a gun or handling a gun while he/she is approaching the vehicle. This is something that none of us can control unfortunately, how they may respond each time.

Makes you think.
Oh I never make an action on the gun in the presence of an officer, I either "already" have it on the dash, or just merely tell him I have a gun and verbally tell him where. I agree if you just go randomly reaching for a gun you're begging for trouble.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:45 PM   #7805
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Gotcha, I thought you were saying you pull it out and place it on the dash. My mistake.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:54 PM   #7806
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My set up would not require a concealed carry permit since it is in open view to an officer if he were to stop you and look in the window.
You say that with a lot more certainty than I would, but maybe I've got my proportions off . . . .

Isn't it true that if you were sitting in the driver's seat and I approached your window while you rolled it down to speak with me, then I would not be able to see the gun?

It's hidden by your steering column and leg if I'm looking in from the driver's side, right? I would need to actually open the driver door or at least be in the passenger seat to even see it, correct? And if I was looking in from the driver's side with the door open, I still might even have to make you get out before I saw it because it would be obscured by your leg?

If that's all true, then I doubt very much it would not be considered "concealed." Did you read the section in the DOJ materials I posted earlier? There's a great deal of flexibility in that term.

It's perhaps not as concealed as if it was just sitting on the floor under your seat . . . but I would nevertheless have very little trouble concluding that it's "concealed."

Indeed, isn't part of the reason you put it there--as opposed to say in the tray on top of your dash, or in a holster attached to your visor--is specifically BECAUSE it's more "out of the way" and not immediately obvious to somebody looking in?

Finally, I would expect a court considering the issue to err on the side of officer safety. That's a good spot to put a handgun that an officer cannot see when he approaches and then shoot him in the face with it when he glances away. No judge is going to want to rule that that area is NOT concealed and then look like a fool in the next election if someone gets shot by a pistol kept in that spot by somebody without a CCP.

Let me put it this way. I'm a civil litigator now, but if I was a prosecutor and if I have my proportions right about how hard it is to actually see that weapon, I would have no problem prosecuting you under the theory that that pistol was "concealed." Let a judge or jury tell me I'm wrong.

Up to you of course, but I would absolutely get a CCP before carrying a weapon in that spot. On the top of the dash, on the visor, and uncovered on the seat are fine, but under the steering column? No way.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:02 PM   #7807
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You say that with a lot more certainty than I would, but maybe I've got my proportions off . . . .

Isn't it true that if you were sitting in the driver's seat and I approached your window while you rolled it down to speak with me, then I would not be able to see the gun?

It's hidden by your steering column and leg if I'm looking in from the driver's side, right? I would need to actually open the driver door or at least be in the passenger seat to even see it, correct? And if I was looking in from the driver's side with the door open, I still might even have to make you get out before I saw it because it would be obscured by your leg?

If that's all true, then I doubt very much it would not be considered "concealed." Did you read the section in the DOJ materials I posted earlier? There's a great deal of flexibility in that term.

It's perhaps not as concealed as if it was just sitting on the floor under your seat . . . but I would nevertheless have very little trouble concluding that it's "concealed."

Indeed, isn't part of the reason you put it there--as opposed to say in the tray on top of your dash, or in a holster attached to your visor--is specifically BECAUSE it's more "out of the way" and not immediately obvious to somebody looking in?

Finally, I would expect a court considering the issue to err on the side of officer safety. That's a good spot to put a handgun that an officer cannot see when he approaches and then shoot him in the face with it when he glances away. No judge is going to want to rule that that area is NOT concealed and then look like a fool in the next election if someone gets shot by a pistol kept in that spot by somebody without a CCP.

Let me put it this way. I'm a civil litigator now, but if I was a prosecutor and if I have my proportions right about how hard it is to actually see that weapon, I would have no problem prosecuting you under the theory that that pistol was "concealed." Let a judge or jury tell me I'm wrong.

Up to you of course, but I would absolutely get a CCP before carrying a weapon in that spot. On the top of the dash, on the visor, and uncovered on the seat are fine, but under the steering column? No way.
Guess the photo must be more deceptive looking than what it is. It's not hidden at all by the column or your leg at all. I have several friends and patients that are in law enforcement and a few that teach concealed/carry courses and they say I'm fine. True you can always argue it different, but at the end of the day the main thing is that you TELL THE OFFICER YOU HAVE A GUN and where it is, if you do this nobody is ever going to have an issue with it.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:23 PM   #7808
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Guess the photo must be more deceptive looking than what it is. It's not hidden at all by the column or your leg at all. I have several friends and patients that are in law enforcement and a few that teach concealed/carry courses and they say I'm fine. True you can always argue it different, but at the end of the day the main thing is that you TELL THE OFFICER YOU HAVE A GUN and where it is, if you do this nobody is ever going to have an issue with it.
My test would be if you can easily see it while standing outside the driver window when somebody is seated in the jeep.

If I was standing at your window writing you a ticket while your doors were on, could I easily see it? If yes, then I think it's fine. If not, then I think it'd be considered "concealed."

Telling the officer is certainly likely to help. My only concern there is that--if the officer believes that it was indeed "concealed"--this approach relies on the officer's good attitude. If he's not in the mood to indulge folks, then you might find yourself cuffed in the back of a cruiser.

A court might (or might not) vindicate you later, but that doesn't alleviate the fact that you ended up getting arrested.

What really gets me though is that all of this goes away if you just get a CCP permit. Then it doesn't matter whether it's concealed or not. Why not go that route?
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:40 PM   #7809
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How do you obtain a CCP?
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:44 PM   #7810
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How do you obtain a CCP?
You live in Wake County, right? See here: Concealed Handgun Permits

I've been meaning to do it forever now. This thread may just have inspired me!
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:44 PM   #7811
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Its about $90 for the class at your local outfitter/gun store for the class, then another $90 to the sheriff's office. They last 5 years. Best money I've ever spent. After that it only takes you about 5 minutes to purchase a firearm versus the 35 minutes without the permit
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:49 PM   #7812
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You do go through a good little class and then have to shoot 40 times, we had 10 extra shots. We all went 50 for 50. We shot from 3 yards off the hip, 5 or 6 yard, and 10 yards I believe. My yardages may be off
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:49 PM   #7813
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Its about $90 for the class at your local outfitter/gun store for the class, then another $90 to the sheriff's office. They last 5 years. Best money I've ever spent. After that it only takes you about 5 minutes to purchase a firearm versus the 35 minutes without the permit
Ain't that peculiar?
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:15 PM   #7814
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The guy I went to does it for $60. I can see if he still does it, when he can teach the class, and get a head count of those who is wanting to take it.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:02 PM   #7815
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I may be a bit late to the topic of the dash holster, (I was asked to place my opinion by another member) but depending on the make and model of the car, the steering wheel / dash holster may or may not be concealed.
I am a gun guy and I try to give folks an equal shake, but the fact is if I can't see it, then it is concealed. If you reach for it then there is a good chance you and the LEO will have a heart to heart! It is way to easy to get a CCW permit to take a risk.

Keep in mind the trash bags that a LEO encounters throughout the day, the fact that many are not "gun guys", and the fact that there is already at least one gun in every encounter that the violator and LEO may have. We know our intent but we do not know yours. It makes for a "edgy" situation.

About 6 weeks ago my shift partner and close friend was shot 4 times and the piece was under his (violators) thigh in the general area that these dash holsters are in.

Remember, you are only a misdemeanor away from loosing your gun rights.

When in doubt always go with PLAIN VIEW, for God's sake don't reach for it, and notify LEO that it is there. If you are not a trash bag then shortly you will be on your way.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:11 PM   #7816
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The guy I went to does it for $60. I can see if he still does it, when he can teach the class, and get a head count of those who is wanting to take it.
I'd be in. Start a list.

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Old 05-01-2013, 04:12 PM   #7817
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What day/time are you folks headed to tw this weekend?
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:43 PM   #7818
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You guys ever need somewhere to target shoot or to become more familiar with shooting it. (If we can afford to fire it) I live on 30 acres in the middle of nowhere that you guys can come to
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:14 PM   #7819
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You guys ever need somewhere to target shoot or to become more familiar with shooting it. (If we can afford to fire it) I live on 30 acres in the middle of nowhere that you guys can come to
Is this welcome too?
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:24 PM   #7820
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Is this welcome too?
Thats sweet shammy! I cant figure out how to download pics here from my iphone
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:56 PM   #7821
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How far do you think most folks in and around Raleigh would be willing to drive to "legally" wheel at a decent OHV playground? There is some "pits and dumps" land that I've been eyeing that I think could easily be turned into a Off-road, family friendly playground but it's not in Wake County.

If I were to invest the time and effort in such a venture (or form a club/corp to do it) I wonder whether folks would be willing to drive 45minutes to an hour (from Raleigh) and pay $15 per vehicle to have a place to get muddy and dent skid guards?
I am guessing you are saying $15 a year? I just went to Uwharie for the first time and that was $30 for the year. It is 1.5 hours away from Raleigh but well worth it.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:41 PM   #7822
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Thats sweet shammy! I cant figure out how to download pics here from my iphone
thanks. i may be willing to trade one for a reasonable pistol. so if anybody's looking for a new shotgun, i've got a brand new (never been shot) Remington 870. worth about $600 with all the add-ons.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:54 PM   #7823
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New home for the Sig!



Jeeps & guns... like pb&j!
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:59 PM   #7824
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Is this welcome too?
Nice boom stick! Rem 870 w/ Pheonix Tech recoil reducing stock?
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:23 PM   #7825
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Is this welcome too?
Sure!
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:30 PM   #7826
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My sig m400 sig sp2022 glock27 sb compact taurus pt709 and my mossberg 500 pistol grip
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:32 PM   #7827
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My sig m400 sig sp2022 glock27 sb compact taurus pt709 and my mossberg 500 pistol grip
We can have a picnic jeep shoot out
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:34 PM   #7828
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I am guessing you are saying $15 a year? I just went to Uwharie for the first time and that was $30 for the year. It is 1.5 hours away from Raleigh but well worth it.
No I'm thinking $15 per visit and some sort of reduced price for a membership. The extra hour to hour and a half round trip distance to the Uhwarrie is between $15- $25 in gas alone. I figured something closer (depending on where a person lives) would be worthwhile. If its closer people would go more often than the Uwharrie and there could be a sheltered area for get-togethers.

Given the current thread on firearms it's interesting to note that a visit to the local Raleigh gun range costs $15 per hour not counting ammo and it stays pretty packed from my experience even though there are more remote places to shoot for free.

The Uwharrie is great fun and remember it's partly funded by our tax dollars but I don't go often because of the travel time. A local pits and dump site might become a welcome hangout.

Anyway just rolling around the idea. There's probably not enough interest to make it pay for itself.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:44 PM   #7829
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No I'm thinking $15 per visit and some sort of reduced price for a membership. The extra hour to hour and a half round trip distance to the Uhwarrie is between $15- $25 in gas alone. I figured something closer (depending on where a person lives) would be worthwhile. If its closer people would go more often than the Uwharrie and there could be a sheltered area for get-togethers.

Given the current thread on firearms it's interesting to note that a visit to the local Raleigh gun range costs $15 per hour not counting ammo and it stays pretty packed from my experience even though there are more remote places to shoot for free.

The Uwharrie is great fun and remember it's partly funded by our tax dollars but I don't go often because of the travel time. A local pits and dump site might become a welcome hangout.

Anyway just rolling around the idea. There's probably not enough interest to make it pay for itself.
I'm game, what town?
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:57 AM   #7830
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I'm game, what town?
I've seen inexpensive pits dump land for sale near Lillington in Harnett County. If I recall correctly you're near Clayton so that would be a haul but there may be something more centrally located. It's just that sort of land is generally $3k to $5k per acre rather than more than triple for regular wooded and pits and dumps land usually already has the sort of wacky land features that make for fun ohv obstacles. The very same that makes it unsuitable for building.

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