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Old 06-26-2013, 09:09 AM   #1
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10A Bumper cross thread update

Hello,
I think I'm the first one to take their 10A to the dealership for this issue. From what I've read on here, I'm not the only one with cross threaded bumper bolts in the front. Well anyway, they said that Crystler will not pay for the repair to fix it, because the bumper end was not removed for any sort of problem. I have one bumper end on, and one off. I asked the service guy about the one that's still on, as I highly suspect is cross threaded also. The service guy told me that Crystler will not pay for that to be removed and checked, since there isn't a known problem with it.

I don't see the difference though in the front bumper ends and say, the doors or hard top. What if the hard top or door bolts had been cross threaded? Would they not warranty them as well since the door / hard top would not come off due to some other malfunction?

My next course of action is to email Chrystler directly. This is defentlay a build quality issue here. With as much as we paid for a 10A Rubicon, these bolts should not have been cross threaded at the factory. I intend on takeing my time creating this email. I want to make sure I stay curtious, professional, and use proper grammer and spelling. (My weakness is spelling)

The parts guy checked, and said they do not have a price or availabilty for new bolts yet.

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Old 06-26-2013, 09:20 AM   #2
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Id say you are on the right track. Always dispute these things and I have a feeling something like this will get resolved in your favor... especially since Chrysler wouldnt want media attention should this get out.

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Old 06-26-2013, 10:17 AM   #3
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I Just downloaded the warranty information. It clearly says "The Basic Limited Warranty covers the cost of all parts
and labor needed to repair any item on your vehicle
when it left the manufacturing plant that is defective in
material, workmanship or factory preparation."
This is definatly a workmanship or factory issue. I'll have to take some photographs and email a copy of the warranty policy in my email. It'll be a little bit before I get it all together.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:44 AM   #4
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I Just found the 10A brochure stateing that it DOES have removable bumper endcaps.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:49 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insylem View Post
... "The Basic Limited Warranty covers the cost of all parts
and labor needed to repair any item on your vehicle
when it left the manufacturing plant that is defective in
material, workmanship or factory preparation."
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by insylem View Post
I Just found the 10A brochure stateing that it DOES have removable bumper endcaps.
So, you are absolutely, clearly, undoubtedly, in the right.




Good luck getting Chrysler to agree.....


Keep us posted.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:50 AM   #6
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For what you paid for your 10A Rubicon I'm surprised the dealer just doesn't take care of it for you. How much could it cost *the dealer* for new bumper bolts?

Let us know how it goes.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:14 PM   #7
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For what you paid for your 10A Rubicon I'm surprised the dealer just doesn't take care of it for you. How much could it cost *the dealer* for new bumper bolts?

Let us know how it goes.

The dealership wont even throw in the freedom panel bags that were suposed to come with it that didn't. I should include that in my email as well. Anyhow, the parts guy said that he was unable to get a price on new bolts yet. I guess they havn't been put into the system yet or something. I'll post updates, and maybe even a copy of the email I send to them.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:31 PM   #8
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"The service guy told me that Crystler will not pay for that to be removed and checked, since there isn't a known problem with it."

They won't know if there is a problem if they refuse to investigate? Stupid service writers...
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:37 PM   #9
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The dealership wont even throw in the freedom panel bags that were suposed to come with it that didn't. I should include that in my email as well. Anyhow, the parts guy said that he was unable to get a price on new bolts yet. I guess they havn't been put into the system yet or something. I'll post updates, and maybe even a copy of the email I send to them.
This may be a stupid idea, but since this is in the public domain anyway, what about posting your email and having the group proof-read it for you. In your OP you mentioned you had a spelling weakness (who doesn't) but just a thought.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:43 PM   #10
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I sent an email to the dealership about the freedom panel storage bags. I have talked to them before, and I feel I have given them sufficent time. Fortunatlly I do know how to use spell check. Just doesn't seem to work very well in Firefox.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:18 PM   #11
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10A has removable pieces on the front bumper. In order to remove those pieces, you need to remove a bolt(s). That bolt(s) was cross threaded from the factory rendering the removable part not removable. You have a bumper to bumper warranty and they literally won't cover that? I would be in the dealership owners office nicely awaiting an answer as to WTF are they thinking and directly point to the advertisement that clearly shows the removable bumper ends.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:24 PM   #12
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Yeah i wouldn't take no for a answer. It seems to me the guy you talked to is taking the easy way out. Just my 2cents
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:43 PM   #13
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10A has removable pieces on the front bumper. In order to remove those pieces, you need to remove a bolt(s). That bolt(s) was cross threaded from the factory rendering the removable part not removable. You have a bumper to bumper warranty and they literally won't cover that? I would be in the dealership owners office nicely awaiting an answer as to WTF are they thinking and directly point to the advertisement that clearly shows the removable bumper ends.
I wouldn't be in the office I'd be in the show room making a loud obnoxious fuss.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:17 PM   #14
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I'm guessing this should be added to the new 10a checklist? Have one in Production Scheduled currently.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:41 PM   #15
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I'm guessing this should be added to the new 10a checklist? Have one in Production Scheduled currently.
Yes DEFENATLY have them show you how the bumper ends come off....
Let THEM do it, so there is NO room for them to say you did it wrong.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:47 AM   #16
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I sent an email to the dealership about the freedom panel storage bags. I have talked to them before, and I feel I have given them sufficent time. Fortunatlly I do know how to use spell check. Just doesn't seem to work very well in Firefox.

For Firefox spell checker go to your Tools> Options> Advanced> Check my spelling as I type

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb...-spell-checker
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:00 AM   #17
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Mine were cross threaded, not stripped. This is something that I'd prefer to fix myself rather than have to deal with my service depatment. I just ran a tap in the mucked up hole (more than half of them were cross threaded) and I added a bit of anti-sieze when I reinstalled the bolt. I did not re-install the end caps. The real issue here is that the holes are somewhat misaligned and instead of fixing the problem, they simply ran the bolts in crooked with an impact gun. I'd have the same problem re-installing the end caps that they had at the factory. Besides, if I were going to buy a nice after market bumper, I'd have choosen a stubby one anyway. I like the look and leaving the end caps off saved me 22 lbs overall (the end caps weigh 11 lbs a piece). Just my $.02

BTW.......The real fix is to open the holes up on the end caps by about .01". Unless that problem is addressed, the new bumper assembly that you're struggleing with Chrysler to get them to pay for will probably be the same way.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:51 AM   #18
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Mine were cross threaded, not stripped. This is something that I'd prefer to fix myself rather than have to deal with my service depatment. I just ran a tap in the mucked up hole (more than half of them were cross threaded) and I added a bit of anti-sieze when I reinstalled the bolt. I did not re-install the end caps. The real issue here is that the holes are somewhat misaligned and instead of fixing the problem, they simply ran the bolts in crooked with an impact gun. I'd have the same problem re-installing the end caps that they had at the factory. Besides, if I were going to buy a nice after market bumper, I'd have choosen a stubby one anyway. I like the look and leaving the end caps off saved me 22 lbs overall (the end caps weigh 11 lbs a piece). Just my $.02

BTW.......The real fix is to open the holes up on the end caps by about .01". Unless that problem is addressed, the new bumper assembly that you're struggleing with Chrysler to get them to pay for will probably be the same way.
So it's more then the bolts being cross threaded. It's some one in the design (Engineeers, I hate them) didn't do their math homework correctly and the result is a bumper where the holes don't line up right. I noticed it some looking at the end cap how it looked a little messed up. Great Job Guys at Chrysler Way to measure twice and cut once!
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:47 AM   #19
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So it's more then the bolts being cross threaded. It's some one in the design (Engineeers, I hate them) didn't do their math homework correctly and the result is a bumper where the holes don't line up right. I noticed it some looking at the end cap how it looked a little messed up. Great Job Guys at Chrysler Way to measure twice and cut once!
I think it's got more to do with the end caps being stamped parts. I work in manufacturing as a machinist for the last 28 years and I've seen issues like this before. Of course, blaming the engineers is a perfectly acceptable solution. But,I'd be more inclined to blame the accountants.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:00 AM   #20
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So it's more then the bolts being cross threaded. It's some one in the design (Engineeers, I hate them) didn't do their math homework correctly and the result is a bumper where the holes don't line up right. I noticed it some looking at the end cap how it looked a little messed up. Great Job Guys at Chrysler Way to measure twice and cut once!
Its a purchased part... blame strategic purchasing for forcing R&D and manufacturing to use the lowest price supplier.

You get what you pay for .. in this case, it was received pre-assembled with misaligned holes.

Chrysler accepted the assembly AS IS... they probably didn't even know until someone complained. Now they may have 7,000 defective front bumpers to deal with.

Its easier for them to hide their head in the sand.

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Old 06-27-2013, 08:06 AM   #21
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Its a purchased part... blame strategic purchasing for forcing R&D and manufacturing to use the lowest price supplier.

You get what you pay for .. in this case, it was received pre-assembled with misaligned holes.

Chrysler accepted the assembly AS IS... they probably didn't even know until someone complained. Now they may have 7,000 defective front bumpers to deal with.

Its easier for them to hide their head in the sand.

.

Well I'm hoping that other 10A Owners will join me in Emailing Chrysler about this. The 10A Rubicon isn't cheap by my standards.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:29 AM   #22
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Same issue here, took them off a couple weeks ago. Some where quite loose to begin with, some overly tight all the way to complete removal. Suspect that there might be a squence of removal as that cap is not light and possible sags by itself as all the bolts loosen. Felt like that on removal. Might need to be held or propped up as the bolts come out? Did notice that maybe half the bolts were 'raw' like in the photos in the other thread (haven't looked since removal), did try to put the bolts in after removal, first 2 went in fine (hand wrenched), 3rd couldn't even finger start it. Didn't try any others after that. Not near the vehicle at the moment, but do they need to be so long? The bolts? Took exactly an hour non-stop removing them by hand and seemed ridiculously long bolts to remove. Not sure when I'll but everything back, maybe winter. Doubt all of them have to go back in to adequately secure the cap back on, otherwise maybe shorter new bolts will do the trick.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:02 AM   #23
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Okay, I wrote up a draft of the letter. Some one said that it's probably a stupid Idea to post it on here in open thread, but is anyone up for a proof read? I'll PM it to you.
Thanks
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:07 AM   #24
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Okay, I wrote up a draft of the letter. Some one said that it's probably a stupid Idea to post it on here in open thread, but is anyone up for a proof read? I'll PM it to you.
Thanks
I'll take a look at it ... PM or post a PDF.

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Old 06-27-2013, 09:08 AM   #25
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Same issue here, took them off a couple weeks ago. Some where quite loose to begin with, some overly tight all the way to complete removal. Suspect that there might be a squence of removal as that cap is not light and possible sags by itself as all the bolts loosen. Felt like that on removal. Might need to be held or propped up as the bolts come out? Did notice that maybe half the bolts were 'raw' like in the photos in the other thread (haven't looked since removal), did try to put the bolts in after removal, first 2 went in fine (hand wrenched), 3rd couldn't even finger start it. Didn't try any others after that. Not near the vehicle at the moment, but do they need to be so long? The bolts? Took exactly an hour non-stop removing them by hand and seemed ridiculously long bolts to remove. Not sure when I'll but everything back, maybe winter. Doubt all of them have to go back in to adequately secure the cap back on, otherwise maybe shorter new bolts will do the trick.
Normally for something like that, for removal you will want to loosen all the bolts first. Then take them out. Reverse for installation. Get all the bolts started first by hand. If a bolt cannot be started by hand, don't wrench it. Get ALL the bolts hand started before tightening any of them. This allows you to make minor adjustments to get all the bolts in. As for the bolt lengh. You want at least 2 threads sticking past the nut. Longer ones may have been used to help make alignment eayser.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:14 AM   #26
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Sounds more like an issue with your dealer than anything. That Freedom bag is part and parcel of the vehicle, it's not a gift item from the dealer like throwing in free mats or something. Your complaint to Chrysler should focus on that because that is a bigger issue (with the dealer), than the bolts. Then mention the bolts. Even better go to a nother dealer and complain about the bolts and see what their reaction is. The Freedom bag is a real issue imo, with your dealer. I suspect any other dealer wouldn't blink in replacing the bolts under warranty if you explain and show them the issue.

Did you try taking off the other end? prop it up or have someone hold it and see if it removes okay. Or figger out a sequence where it removes evenly.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:18 AM   #27
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Freedom bag situation is taken care of. I talked to the dealership today. They got them from another Jeep for me and will deal with geting the rest sorted out later. Later today I'll go pick them up from the sale's rep's office.

As for the other end, I tried ONE bolt on the other side. It was VERY difficult to remove, that I only got it so that the head/ washer is no longer in contact with the bumper. I want to email Chrysler and see what they say before messing with the other end.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:24 AM   #28
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Check the ones on the back side of the bumper, I think the bottom ones where loose on mine. Before firing off the letter, suggest to actually go through the process of removing the whole thing, but this time prop it up or have some one hold it. Cause they may say that is what needs to be done. Or since your dealer sounds like they are useless, take it to another dealer, explain the situation to them and have them remove it and record the results. Can't see why a dealer wouldn't replace the bolts like you mentioned originally, other than being a crap dealer, which is what yours sounds like.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:41 AM   #29
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Okay, I wrote up a draft of the letter. Some one said that it's probably a stupid Idea to post it on here in open thread, but is anyone up for a proof read? I'll PM it to you.
Thanks
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I'll take a look at it ... PM or post a PDF.

.
You did good... I just moved things around and clarified some points.

Fire that puppy off and see what happens.



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Old 06-27-2013, 10:02 AM   #30
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It's been fired off. I saved a copy of it too. If anyone ealse wants a copy I can delete the personal information and dealership name so that the basic format can be used for other 10A Bumper complaints if needed.

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