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Old 05-15-2013, 10:05 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryJeepster View Post
I agree with kjeeper. After all we have one side of a story here. For anyone to make a decision based on this one experience is ridiculous. If you were to read posts on how bad jeep handles their customers and how many parts fail none of us would own one. I went with RK, talked with AJ @ Jeepbeach and haven't had one problem with ride or customer service. They always answered the phone and gave me stellar advice when doing my own install. I feel for anyone who has problems like this thread but as intelligent people we should wait to judge an entire company until we have all sides of the story. Of course this is mearly my opinion.
Great post

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Old 05-15-2013, 10:41 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Actually, his intent was not to bash RK. The OP was having issues with the lift, not so much with the company itself. Any further issues with RK should not be discussed in this thread. That's between him and RK.
The thread was helpful so please, do not turn this into a bashing thread or it will have to be removed/closed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryJeepster View Post
I agree with kjeeper. After all we have one side of a story here. For anyone to make a decision based on this one experience is ridiculous. If you were to read posts on how bad jeep handles their customers and how many parts fail none of us would own one. I went with RK, talked with AJ @ Jeepbeach and haven't had one problem with ride or customer service. They always answered the phone and gave me stellar advice when doing my own install. I feel for anyone who has problems like this thread but as intelligent people we should wait to judge an entire company until we have all sides of the story. Of course this is mearly my opinion.
I'm not looking to bash anyone, just looking to inform and help the OP. His situation is more common than RK would like to admit and its something that needs to be discussed so people looking into their kits are going into it with a better understanding of what they are getting themselves into. Like I said, ride firmness is a subjective issue and one that can't be easily resolved, especially if the installer and manufacturer are claiming that there are no problems. With that said, the OP still has what he considers to be a firm ride. What can he do about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK_Runner View Post
I have said my piece about my interactions and none of it was fabrication. I thought it would be very helpful to document the progress on the forum so others can make more informed decisions. I know I wish I had known some of this before, and this is what the forum is for. I will post my future changes and their impact on the ride quality. I am either going to just change the springs and maybe the trackbar, or there is a chance (here goes another $3k-$4k) I may switch everything to another setup. I'd do it in pieces but I am not sure if it is the springs or the control arms. Since two reputable installers have mentioned that it was quite odd that the control arms were adjusted all the way in with no adjustment left, it makes me wonder about that too. In fact, the guy in Moab told me he was sure I was sent the wrong control arms, and that I'd be better off with the stock control arms. This guy is an older guy who has worked on almost all the rental Jeeps for years, according to a rental Jeep company that recommended his shop. Another shop I used was Moab 4x4 Outpost. They thought that the shock Nitrogen was too high and took it down to 75 psi and then 50 psi the next day (originally 100 psi) to help (it didn't help).

I will have one final talk with RK and the installer (who is not blameless here) today, and then decide what needs to be done next but I am at the end of my rope with this. My GF and I used to offroad every weekend. She hates getting in the Jeep now since she is basically flung around in the seat as soon as we hit rough stuff, and I need to fix this ASAP. I do have an appointment with that reputable (and silly expensive) shop on May 30. Things will start to change for the better at that point, and I will likely call this the most expensive mistake I ever made. I'll post back since I think this will be a very interesting experiment. I will not bash anyone.

Thanks again for commenting and advising...that is what makes this forum so useful, helpful, and fun. Not fun for me (actually incredibly stressful) at this point, but it will soon all be okay and I will be wheeling in Telluride-Ouray in July, Marble, Aspen, and Crested Butte in August, and Moab in September.
The control arm issue has been one that I have brought up several times. I have installed several 2.5" RK lifts and all of them required the lower control arms to be threaded all the way in to the shortest adjustment. Even then, caster has barely cleared into the min. requirement of under 6 degrees. I have always argued that the lower control arm's main purpose is to re-center the axle on a horizontal plane so its centered perfectly within the wheel well, a side benefit is that it helps with the caster angle. But its really the upper control arms that have more of an impact on caster angle. This is one of the main reasons that companies like Metal Cloak offer upper control arms in their entry level kits. Your stock lower control arms are typically long enough for a 2.5" kit to keep the axle centered, but a good set of upper control arms will help correct the caster angle for you. Keep in mind that neither will help with the "Firmness" of the ride, just help correct the handling and what sometimes people complain is a floaty or drifty ride.



Your firmness issue is more related to the shocks and tire type and pressure. I don't remember what shocks your running or tire, but in one case I installed an RK kit for a guy running Fox 2.0 shocks and Kevlar MTR 35's, the ride was extremely firm and unforgiving. He eventually sold most of the stuff because he couldn't deal with it. In his case, there was nothing wrong with the parts or the install, it was just the wrong choice of parts for his use. On another Jeep I installed a set of Bilstein 5100 and KM2 35's, that ride was great. Firm but very forgiving. The owner loves the ride. That's why when the installer and RK refers to the ride being subjective, they are correct.

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Old 05-15-2013, 10:47 AM   #93
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Lou, I can't speak for all but I certainly can learn a heck of a LOT from the information you have and provide. Thanks!
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:55 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK_Runner View Post
Lou, I can't speak for all but I certainly can learn a heck of a LOT from the information you have and provide. Thanks!
That's all I'm looking to do brother.

KJ, let me also say one other thing in regards to RK and diffuse the possibility that someone would take what I'm saying as a "Bash". Like I had mentioned, I have installed several RK kits and their product quality is exceptional. In the one case where a friend had his swaybar links flip on him, RK was there to back up their product and sent him a replacement without any problems. I honestly believe that their product quality is among the best in the business and I have seen them come through in terms of customer service. Both qualities that I heavily consider when researching a purchase in the amount of what a lift costs. My only gripe is the lack of information, its something that could be corrected right on their website. I feel people would still purchase their product, for the reasons I mentioned, but they wouldn't be caught off guard during or after the install.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:19 AM   #95
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I wasn't singling anybody out. People reading the thread and thinking they should Stay far away from RK. There's been some very solid points made here. I just don't what this to be a slam on RK or their products.

I don't think this has anything to do with their CA's. if set up right and pinion/caster correct, the ride should benefit??
Much better then with stock arms-- the axles sucked in and wheelbase shorter then stock.



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Old 05-15-2013, 11:24 AM   #96
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In case anybody missed it. I am experiencing something similar. Maybe even the same thing.
I ran Rancho 9000's that were adjustable and played with different settings... Nothing.
Tires are new.... Nothing. Played with PSI ..... Nothing.
I very much think the coils may be the problem. Maybe a very small chance, even defective ?
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:28 AM   #97
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I bought this. now I can beat the snots out of the jeep and not have to worry no more
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:32 AM   #98
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Hey KJ you need to plastidip those wheels and dark tint the windows so no one recognizes you. Hahaha
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:34 AM   #99
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Hey KJ you need to plastidip those wheels and dark tint the windows so no one recognizes you. Hahaha
Good idea

I need a sticker that reads."DD only I drive a JEEP"
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:43 PM   #100
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Interesting post over on JKO


QUOTE=RedSectorA;1528357]I was hoping someone could explain the difference in the two springs below. Both of these springs came with a RK 2.5 Max travel kit. The first picture was an install from late last year and the second is from early this year.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
The manufacturer of the coils changed the wire size of the coil spring itself. The driving parameters of the coil are the same, spring rates, load heights, transitions, end codes, etc. The change in wire size caused the spring index to change in order to meet the driving parameters.

RK
Looks like there was a change
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:58 PM   #101
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Non-progressive and progressive?
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Old 05-15-2013, 03:08 PM   #102
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Non-progressive and progressive?
RK fronts are progressive, the rear's aren't (they are linear). I have no idea why they would go with a thinner coil. Could there have been clearance issue with the old coil? I didn't notice anything. Maybe this helps address the varying lift issue.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:19 PM   #103
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Your firmness issue is more related to the shocks and tire type and pressure. I don't remember what shocks your running or tire, but in one case I installed an RK kit for a guy running Fox 2.0 shocks and Kevlar MTR 35's, the ride was extremely firm and unforgiving. He eventually sold most of the stuff because he couldn't deal with it. In his case, there was nothing wrong with the parts or the install, it was just the wrong choice of parts for his use.
It's funny that I have this exact setup (on a JKU) and I have absolutely no complaints. It's firm but certainly not uncomfortable, and I can easily say my Jeep rides better than it did stock. I will say it's a world better with my tires at 28 psi than at 36.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:34 PM   #104
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Rather drastic change, from 5 wraps to 9 wraps....that's worrisome in it's self. HK Runner, which pic does your coil's "match" ?

Now seeing the coil change business, think I'll wait on 2.5 Metal Cloak 2dr lift to hit the shelves.

Matador thanks for the "specifics"

HK Runner, I would be very disgruntled also in your situation and thank you for the "invaluable information". The new springs should solve the problem .
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:49 PM   #105
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24psi in my 35's and my RK lift rides like a dream.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:43 AM   #106
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Does anyone think we could be compensating a rough coil ride by simply airing down too much? When I picked up my JKU, the stock tires were comfortable at 34psi. I found the ride cushy compared to the TJ at that. I upgraded my tires to 315/75/16 Duratracs, the E rated ones. I run them at 29 psi with stock springs, I may drop it to 28. If I put stiffer springs on, especially much stiffer, the only way to compensate would be to soften the tires - lower the psi.

Wouldn't a better lift provide a slightly stiffer progressive spring, so we don't have to drop the psi really low to have a good ride? Or am I just missing something here?

I do realise there are tires - mine included - that run harsher when aired up a lot, but to hear from so many that they are running low 20's for psi, I only have done so when it snows and is icy (or muddy).
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:03 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusus_Naturae View Post
Does anyone think we could be compensating a rough coil ride by simply airing down too much? When I picked up my JKU, the stock tires were comfortable at 34psi. I found the ride cushy compared to the TJ at that. I upgraded my tires to 315/75/16 Duratracs, the E rated ones. I run them at 29 psi with stock springs, I may drop it to 28. If I put stiffer springs on, especially much stiffer, the only way to compensate would be to soften the tires - lower the psi.

Wouldn't a better lift provide a slightly stiffer progressive spring, so we don't have to drop the psi really low to have a good ride? Or am I just missing something here?

I do realise there are tires - mine included - that run harsher when aired up a lot, but to hear from so many that they are running low 20's for psi, I only have done so when it snows and is icy (or muddy).
There a point where my psi is too low. Bumps/potholes impact is softened but the tires feel all the road and wander like crazy. Too high and the ride is harsh.
Is this what you mean ?
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:44 AM   #108
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Mine look like the newer coils. I think 20 psi as recommended by RK is too low, and it does not need to be that low to compensate. If that is what they think- fine. I'll try it out. The MTR sidewalls are stiffer than KMs, so maybe they need to be run lower. However, it isn't the tires. I had those tires on my stock suspension (brand new 35" MTR) and at 32 and then 30 psi. They rode great. I was pretty surprised at how there was no harshness that I had expected, and that tells me it has nothing to do with the tires. I drove to the installer yesterday and spoke to him. It was a very honest/frank conversation and he agreed with me on all counts. We are exploring another angle and he will call RK and ask if they will help out. I have my fingers crossed, and will post back.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:47 AM   #109
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Good luck my friend. following this thread closely
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:06 AM   #110
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Quote:
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Mine look like the newer coils. I think 20 psi as recommended by RK is too low, and it does not need to be that low to compensate. If that is what they think- fine. I'll try it out. The MTR sidewalls are stiffer than KMs, so maybe they need to be run lower. However, it isn't the tires. I had those tires on my stock suspension (brand new 35" MTR) and at 32 and then 30 psi. They rode great. I was pretty surprised at how there was no harshness that I had expected, and that tells me it has nothing to do with the tires. I drove to the installer yesterday and spoke to him. It was a very honest/frank conversation and he agreed with me on all counts. We are exploring another angle and he will call RK and ask if they will help out. I have my fingers crossed, and will post back.
Were you given an explanation for the change in coils? Seems like a pretty radical change (mine are the old style, purchased in October last year).
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:21 AM   #111
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You have amazing patience. After all the issues and this many weeks I wouldn't be at all calm. Hopefully the installer and RK both do the right thing.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:30 AM   #112
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Were you given an explanation for the change in coils? Seems like a pretty radical change (mine are the old style, purchased in October last year).
per RK directly....

The manufacturer of the coils changed the wire size of the coil spring itself. The driving parameters of the coil are the same, spring rates, load heights, transitions, end codes, etc. The change in wire size caused the spring index to change in order to meet the driving parameters.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:55 AM   #113
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Interesting thread here! Im running their 2.5 Flex kit on 35 inch MTR/Kevlar (matador helped install my lift, and by "help" I mean that he did all the hard stuff)

I had a positive experience with their Customer Service, I didnt set the sway bar links long enough and while wheeling I flipped the sway bar and wrapped a link around my tie rod. Bent it like a U. I called RK, it was clearly a matter of installation and driver error, but they stood behind their product and replaced them no questions asked.

As far as the handling- I have the adjustable LCAs dialed as short as they can go, and my caster is at around 4.8-5.0 driver/passenger. I will eventually need to buy their adjustable uppers and get them installed to bring that caster down a bit, but honestly a caster of 5 is just fine. Drives great as far as the lift itself. I can whip into turns at high speeds off the highway, I dont drift, no DS vibe, no wandering at all. A darned solid lift, and I havent even gotten to how well it performed off-road over the course of a few trips to Rausch Creek. Not too stiff, not too firm. I have my MTRs set at about 30 PSI and that seems just right.

Now, separate issue entirely is that the MTRs were a huge pain in the ass to get balanced, and probably still arent right, but I think I have them close enough.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:04 AM   #114
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I've been following this thread and it's so interesting and strange at the same time. I run their 2.5" Max Travel Pro lift and have many shared parts with guys in this thread. My ride is incredibly smooth. It's so odd that experiences can vary so wildly. I'm interested to see what version of coils I have. I'm going to take a look during lunch. I bought mine in October and recieved them in November. There was a delay of 3 weeks recieving the coils due to a manufacturing problem (per RK), so I wonder if this is when they switched syles?


Quote:
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Interesting thread here! Im running their 2.5 Flex kit on 35 inch MTR/Kevlar (matador helped install my lift, and by "help" I mean that he did all the hard stuff)

I had a positive experience with their Customer Service, I didnt set the sway bar links long enough and while wheeling I flipped the sway bar and wrapped a link around my tie rod. Bent it like a U. I called RK, it was clearly a matter of installation and driver error, but they stood behind their product and replaced them no questions asked.
I had this exact same thing happen to me. RK had a replacement in the mail and at my door step that week at no charge. I was rather impressed with the outcome of my one and only CS experience with them.

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It's funny that I have this exact setup (on a JKU) and I have absolutely no complaints. It's firm but certainly not uncomfortable, and I can easily say my Jeep rides better than it did stock. I will say it's a world better with my tires at 28 psi than at 36.
Same here. 35" MTRwKs with 27PSI, 2.5" Max Travel Pro. On top of that I just had my first tire rotation and the tech at DT said all my tires are wearing evenly. I was pleased with that report.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:06 AM   #115
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Has all dialogue been between the dealer and RK? Just wondering if the dealer is as "close" a friend as he states?
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4:56 Gears - LSD in Rear w/ Ten Factory Chromoly Shafts
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:20 AM   #116
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Just throwing out there, I run my MTRs from 23-26 on the street and have driven a few miles to wheel with them at 8 psi, yes they will wander at a lower speed but low 20s is nothing, The sidewalls on these tires barely gives until 12 psi, in my experience. They are stiff. This is why I liked the Duratracs on road feel so much more.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:39 AM   #117
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KRamer,

When you say 27 psi, I'm assuming cold?
Those puppy's prob get up to 30-31 hot.
I try to keep my E-rated kooks at 26-27 hot.
Some mornings they're down to 24 if I check.

This coil thing is interesting. The 2 look so much different. Can't imagine drivability be the same ?

Also... I remember reading RK had a issue with they're coils ... What?? I don't know.
Apparently then never made it to the customer.

Here's mine. My front end does seem as stiff as a board. Even bouncing on the bumper.
Notice the top 3 coils. I've seen some jeeps where these are touching... Some don't?
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:57 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kssting View Post
You have amazing patience. After all the issues and this many weeks I wouldn't be at all calm. Hopefully the installer and RK both do the right thing.
I have reached the end of my patience. I will work with RK one more time and see if they will help. I am basically (no, not basically...I am literally) begging for help. He keeps telling me that ride quality is subjective even though the installer and another reputable shop say otherwise. If this does not work, I will pull off all the RK stuff and probably put on a Synergy kit....and then do a comparative write-up since I will still have the same tires.

So here is what the installer I and think- if the coils are not the issue, it could be the RRD shocks. If I brake hard or hit a long dip where the shocks have time to compress, it seems like the front shocks/coils compress okay. Teh rear- not as much. Anything abrupt or fast, and the shocks seems like they hardly compress at all, transmitting a new level of crazy to the cabin. Multiple bumps or imperfections, and the shocks seem like they pack up and the level of crazy goes to insane. It even freaked out the other dealer who drove my Jeep. Till that rough section he just felt it was a bit too firm but not horrible. After that, he emphatically said it was borderline un-driveable. These guys have the reputation of being the best in town, and carry several brands but mostly sell TeraFlex, AEV, and Synergy.

I "feel" this is more evident in the back so it could still be the rear coils that make us both think this. It is one of those two but the dealer seems to think it could be the shocks. He says without the shocks, the coils felt soft when he took the shocks out to send them back to RK.

So replacing the coils and replacing the shocks are two options. However, if I am going down this dual route eventually, I may as well take out the whole kit since all I am getting so far from RK is that "ride quality is subjective"...over and over...probably 6-7 times now. However, the dealer is calling RK again today to discuss what he thinks may be the culprit...the RRD emulsion (non-res) shocks.

I am finally so angry at this point that I can't even focus on work. I may just take the day off. I can't even call RK now, and so I need to calm down.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:58 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by kurtz265 View Post
Interesting thread here! Im running their 2.5 Flex kit on 35 inch MTR/Kevlar (matador helped install my lift, and by "help" I mean that he did all the hard stuff)

I had a positive experience with their Customer Service, I didnt set the sway bar links long enough and while wheeling I flipped the sway bar and wrapped a link around my tie rod. Bent it like a U. I called RK, it was clearly a matter of installation and driver error, but they stood behind their product and replaced them no questions asked.

As far as the handling- I have the adjustable LCAs dialed as short as they can go, and my caster is at around 4.8-5.0 driver/passenger. I will eventually need to buy their adjustable uppers and get them installed to bring that caster down a bit, but honestly a caster of 5 is just fine. Drives great as far as the lift itself. I can whip into turns at high speeds off the highway, I dont drift, no DS vibe, no wandering at all. A darned solid lift, and I havent even gotten to how well it performed off-road over the course of a few trips to Rausch Creek. Not too stiff, not too firm. I have my MTRs set at about 30 PSI and that seems just right.

Now, separate issue entirely is that the MTRs were a huge pain in the ass to get balanced, and probably still arent right, but I think I have them close enough.
I agree with everything you said buddy, except that your links were set to the length according to RK, as a result your bar was level and that's what causes the 50/50 chance of them wrapping around. Going up a little and having the bar at a slight angle will help but it wouldn't be what RK suggests running them at, or maybe its what they intended. Its hard to determine how the Jeep will sit with their kit because of all the factors involved. In your case, you have a front bumper and winch upfront, obviously more weight than a Jeep running the stock bumper, that in turn will affect the angle of the sway bar and length of the links.

If the actual lift amount can't be controlled, because of all the variable than RK should probably given customers general outlines of where they would like things dialed in and you can adjust things accordingly from there. This is true for any lift company, not just RK.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:01 AM   #120
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Yeah- the instructions definitely fall short, difficult to understand and not enough detailed guidance for sure.

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