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Old 08-19-2011, 09:39 PM   #31
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Looks like we got our new NASCAR pacecar selected here huh? Wow, 2-3 seconds faster than the boat anchor 3.8L. Ok, at the end of an entrance ramp, wow, you are two seconds AHEAD of where you would be if you were in a 2011. I saved 2-3 seconds in life, that is ASTRONOMICAL!

Where do I sign for these type of "speed of light" improvements?

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Old 08-19-2011, 09:47 PM   #32
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Good lord guys, I'm not really sure why we're going so hard at this.

Why isn't it okay for those with the 3.6 to be excited about whatever features they choose? They'll be threads about first time wheeling experiences too, are we going to jump on them then?

Bronsonbull's been pretty respectful in my opinion. I'm happy for him and hope he loves his jeep as much as we all do.

Stand down guys, stand down.

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Old 08-19-2011, 09:50 PM   #33
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I tested the 0-60 today with my 2012 Rubicon Automatic with 4.10 gear ratio (fully loaded except side airbags and smoker's package). I weigh around 200. I measured the 0-60 with the VBOX PerformanceBox, which is considered very close to industry measuring standards used by journalists if not equal in terms of measuring performance metrics such as 0-60 and 1/4 mile times (according to the Car and Driver magazine review that is listed below). The measurements were taken without rollout.

My top two runs, during which I managed to get the best acceleration and traction, were both:

8.1 second 0-60 MPH

I'll put in a link comparing the VBOX PerformanceBox to the industry standard VBOX: Car and Driver DriftBox Review. The PerformanceBox is the same as the DriftBox in terms of performance metrics. Unlike the DriftBox, the PerformanceBox does not measure drift...

The vehicle was a 2DR with the Freedom Top on it.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:54 PM   #34
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But why is it all about speed in the 12's?
I can see why some are getting irked.
We want to see some of them covered in mud or crawling some rocks like a jeeps are supposed to be doin
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:56 PM   #35
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MTH: I am happy for anyone that buys a vehicle that they like no doubt, and have never been jealous of such a thing as i could get the same thing. I just give people a hard time when they start talking about 0-60 times of an offroad inspired machine that is made for offroading extremes.

Nothing against the 2012, hell it looks identical to mine, couldn't tell a difference going down the road. But, ironically...it seems to be this same group always grandstanding about their race times is why they catch hell, and some even down the previous models at the same time.....all the while buying an offroad vehicle. My 20 year old work truck does zero-60 in the same time, color me not amused.

Hope that explains it. I may get a 2013 if they get a diesel.......
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:00 PM   #36
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But why is it all about speed in the 12's?
I can see why some are getting irked.
We want to see some of them covered in mud or crawling some rocks like a jeeps are supposed to be doin
I hear ya'.

I just think they'll get over it. Folks railed against the 3.8 (unjustly, IMO) as underpowered for so long that this is the natural response. It'll pass. They're just excited and I hate to see them getting pissed on for that.

There have been over the past year or so quite a few of "The 3.8 sucks how can you not hate it" guys. They needed to get pissed on and were mostly run off the forum. Guys like I've been seeing here who are just excited about the 3.6 don't seem so bad to me, so I say give'em a pass. They'll start wheeling and forget about the 0-60 stuff.

Just my two cents.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:04 PM   #37
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My 20 year old work truck does zero-60 in the same time, color me not amused.


Also worth noting that rics1997 has regeared to 4.88s with his auto 3.8 on 33s. His 0-60 is under 9 seconds.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:05 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by TxF150
MTH: I am happy for anyone that buys a vehicle that they like no doubt, and have never been jealous of such a thing as i could get the same thing. I just give people a hard time when they start talking about 0-60 times of an offroad inspired machine that is made for offroading extremes.

Nothing against the 2012, hell it looks identical to mine, couldn't tell a difference going down the road. But, ironically...it seems to be this same group always grandstanding about their race times is why they catch hell, and some even down the previous models at the same time.....all the while buying an offroad vehicle. My 20 year old work truck does zero-60 in the same time, color me not amused.

Hope that explains it. I may get a 2013 if they get a diesel.......
Then you can talk smack on the 3.6 guys

I agree 100%

The new jeep is bringing in a whole new crowd. I would have a hard time paying $35,000 for any vehicle and taking it off road, hell I paid enough for an 07, but I don't have to worry about it so much.
Ima keepin n eye on Daggo's thread. I can't wait to see what those baby's can do on the trails...... Guess will see
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:35 PM   #39
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It seems like some people are letting their emotions get the best of them.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to empirically measure things, especially vehicles. The 0-60 time is one performance metric among many and it is used by many car review magazines along with 1/4 mile times (et al.). Of course, using an actual instrument with validity and reliability is important as well (such as the PerformanceBox...).

The 2010 Rubicon 2DR (A soft top was used in the review I think) has a 0-60 of 9.7 seconds according to Automobile.com (No measurement device was listed, but the result seems plausible when compared to other review sites' measurements of Unlimited Rubicons which were a few tenths of a second higher) in comparison to the 2012 Rubicon 2DR's ~8.1 seconds. That presents a 16% change in performance. That is a decent performance difference and it would likely be noticeable across the performance spectrum, where acceleration is required, in terms of responsiveness.

Some people care while others don't care. I have to wonder why anyone who doesn't care would feel the need to denigrate people who are interested in the metrics, unless of course they really do care and somehow this alleviates their cognitive dissonance in some way. Someone who truly doesn't care wouldn't need to post snarky and/or sarcastic remarks aimed at those who are interested in the metrics. That's just my 2 cents...
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:47 PM   #40
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It seems like some people are letting their emotions get the best of them.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to empirically measure things, especially vehicles. The 0-60 time is one performance metric among many and it is used by many car review magazines along with 1/4 mile times (et al.). Of course, using an actual instrument with validity and reliability is important as well (such as the PerformanceBox...).

The 2010 Rubicon 2DR (A soft top was used in the review I think) has a 0-60 of 9.7 seconds according to Automobile.com (No measurement device was listed, but the result seems plausible when compared to other review sites' measurements of Unlimited Rubicons which were a few tenths of a second higher) in comparison to the 2012 Rubicon 2DR's ~8.1 seconds. That presents a 16% change in performance. That is a decent performance difference and it would likely be noticeable across the performance spectrum where acceleration is required in terms of responsiveness.

Some people care while others don't care. I have to wonder why anyone who doesn't care would feel the need to denigrate people who are interested in the metrics, unless of course they really do care and somehow this alleviates their cognitive dissonance in some way. Someone who truly doesn't care wouldn't need to post snarky and/or sarcastic remarks aimed at those who are interested in the metrics. That's just my 2 cents...
It'd just the wrong metric for a Jeep. Ever been to a Jeep show? They have contests for the SLOWEST! It's called the crawl contest. Whoever is geared the slowest and can move the slowest wins.

Remember a Jeep is a low speed thrill ride.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:51 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post
It seems like some people are letting their emotions get the best of them.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to empirically measure things, especially vehicles. The 0-60 time is one performance metric among many and it is used by many car review magazines along with 1/4 mile times (et al.). Of course, using an actual instrument with validity and reliability is important as well (such as the PerformanceBox...).

The 2010 Rubicon 2DR (A soft top was used in the review I think) has a 0-60 of 9.7 seconds according to Automobile.com (No measurement device was listed, but the result seems plausible when compared to other review sites' measurements of Unlimited Rubicons which were a few tenths of a second higher) in comparison to the 2012 Rubicon 2DR's ~8.1 seconds. That presents a 16% change in performance. That is a decent performance difference and it would likely be noticeable across the performance spectrum where acceleration is required in terms of responsiveness.

Some people care while others don't care. I have to wonder why anyone who doesn't care would feel the need to denigrate people who are interested in the metrics, unless of course they really do care and somehow this alleviates their cognitive dissonance in some way. Someone who truly doesn't care wouldn't need to post snarky and/or sarcastic remarks aimed at those who are interested in the metrics. That's just my 2 cents...
That's more like $20 worth, and I agree with you completely.

I know you, and I, and probably all Jeepers, have respect for those senior Jeepers and Jeeps that have blazed the trail. One of my sons has a 2009 JKU and loves it. I loved my 60 HP, 55 MPH absolute max with a tailwind, 1942 GPW, and was driving it on trails when most of the critics of the 2012's weren't born yet. The 2012 is the next step forward, just like the 2007 JK was, and it's a positive step. If you aren't interested in the 2012s, go drive your Jeep and quit trolling the 2012 threads! I'm not referring to the many even handed critics who lend good perspective to the discussions, just the trolls.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:53 PM   #42
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MTH: I am happy for anyone that buys a vehicle that they like no doubt, and have never been jealous of such a thing as i could get the same thing. I just give people a hard time when they start talking about 0-60 times of an offroad inspired machine that is made for offroading extremes.

Nothing against the 2012, hell it looks identical to mine, couldn't tell a difference going down the road. But, ironically...it seems to be this same group always grandstanding about their race times is why they catch hell, and some even down the previous models at the same time.....all the while buying an offroad vehicle. My 20 year old work truck does zero-60 in the same time, color me not amused.

Hope that explains it. I may get a 2013 if they get a diesel.......

You sound jealous.
Some of us waited for a BETTER engine.
FIVE years for me.

BTW,
If your "work truck" runs 0-60 in under 8 seconds (a 454 SS,Lightning?),
I guess the pizza is still warm..
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:58 PM   #43
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It'd just the wrong metric for a Jeep. Ever been to a Jeep show? They have contests for the SLOWEST! It's called the crawl contest. Whoever is geared the slowest and can move the slowest wins.

Remember a Jeep is a low speed thrill ride.
That depends on who the person is more so than the vehicle. Some people want a more responsive Jeep while others want the slowest car on earth (From your post, apparently that would be to win crawl contests). There is no wrong or right answer. Trying to force other people to want the slowest vehicle on earth when it doesn't suit their needs, or to ascribe to your own Jeep philosophy that Jeeps should be "low speed thrill ride," is unreasonable. There are people who also race Jeeps. Likewise, there are engine replacements that can give these vehicles over 700 HP. So apparently not everyone ascribes to your aesthetic.

Don't worry though, because 8.1 seconds is still extremely slow...
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:01 PM   #44
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That depends on who the person is more so than the vehicle. Some people want a more responsive Jeep while others want the slowest car on earth (From your post, apparently that would be to win crawl contests). There is no wrong or right answer. Trying to force other people to want the slowest vehicle on earth when it doesn't suit their needs, or to ascribe to your own Jeep philosophy that Jeeps should be "low speed thrill ride," is unreasonable. There are people who also race Jeeps. Likewise, there are engine replacements that can give these vehicles over 700 HP. So apparently not everyone ascribes to your aesthetic.

Don't worry though, because 8.1 seconds is still extremely slow...
wow that went completely past you. We'll talk sometime when the "Jeep thing" hits you. It will eventually and then you'll "get" it. Hopefully anyway, otherwise it will always just be a car to you and that would be a shame.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:02 PM   #45
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Nobody with a brain buys a Wrangler for street acceleration. But if it has 4 wheels and an engine, punch it. See what it does. It helps tell the story of this latest evolution of the greatest mass-produced off-road vehicle in the world. People are buying it for the extra 80 ponies, of course they're going to see what that means between the stop lights, even if that is (obviously) not a valid reason to choose a Wrangler over a "normal" vehicle.

It probably doesn't mean anything in the long run, but the righteous indignation and smug responses are a bit rich. It seems every time a new generation of Wrangler or set of features is released, some self-anointed puritan from the Order Of Willies™ proclaims everything from round headlights to coil springs to air conditioning to plastic consoles to leather interiors to air bags to be a sin.

I find these 0-60 times to be an anecdotal story of this next evolution of JK. I haven't heard any of these guys talk about running from the law while riding dirty or racing R8s down the freeway, I think you're reading too much into this.

My $.02, $.03 Canadian.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:02 PM   #46
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That's more like $20 worth, and I agree with you completely.

I know you, and I, and probably all Jeepers, have respect for those senior Jeepers and Jeeps that have blazed the trail. One of my sons has a 2009 JKU and loves it. I loved my 60 HP, 55 MPH absolute max with a tailwind, 1942 GPW, and was driving it on trails when most of the critics of the 2012's weren't born yet. The 2012 is the next step forward, just like the 2007 JK was, and it's a positive step. If you aren't interested in the 2012s, go drive your Jeep and quit trolling the 2012 threads! I'm not referring to the many even handed critics who lend good perspective to the discussions, just the trolls.
My father had an old Willy from WW2 for around 15 years. It was interesting and fun to drive. It was also very very slow, and we never knew if we would make it home or if we would have to call a flatbed...
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:06 PM   #47
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Nobody with a brain buys a Wrangler for street acceleration. But if it has 4 wheels and an engine, punch it. See what it does. It helps tell the story of this latest evolution of the greatest mass-produced off-road vehicle in the world. People are buying it for the extra 80 ponies, of course they're going to see what that means between the stop lights, even if that is (obviously) not a valid reason to choose a Wrangler over a "normal" vehicle.

It probably doesn't mean anything in the long run, but the righteous indignation and smug responses are a bit rich. It seems every time a new generation of Wrangler or set of features is released, some self-anointed puritan from the Order Of Willies™ proclaims everything from round headlights to coil springs to air conditioning to plastic consoles to leather interiors to air bags to be a sin.

I find these 0-60 times to be an anecdotal story of this next evolution of JK. I haven't heard any of these guys talk about running from the law while riding dirty or racing R8s down the freeway, I think you're reading too much into this.

My $.02, $.03 Canadian.
You should have been here when the 2011 came out. Prior to that everyone hated the JK dash and interior. Too much plastic. Hard and scratches too easily. Looks cheaply made. So what did Jeep do? they listened and changed all those things about the dash and interior.

Those same people now attacked the change as too luxurious and too car like. The old plastic was much better and looked more like a Jeep.

This crap never ends.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:10 PM   #48
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wow that went completely past you. We'll talk sometime when the "Jeep thing" hits you. It will eventually and then you'll "get" it. Hopefully anyway, otherwise it will always just be a car to you and that would be a shame.
Nah. I have a sports car that goes 0-60 in less than 3 seconds (My best time so far is 2.88 seconds using launch control 2). It will be in the mid 2s soon with a 9.5 second 1/4 mile on pump gas once my new mods are finished.

I didn't buy my Jeep to go fast. I already have one of the fastest accelerating cars on the planet. You can still go slow with a jeep that does 0-60 in 8.1 seconds. It just has more power translating to the wheels when you need it. You could always tune the Jeep's ECU to have the same HP as an older model if it really bothers you that much...
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:13 PM   #49
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You should have been here when the 2011 came out. Prior to that everyone hated the JK dash and interior. Too much plastic. Hard and scratches too easily. Looks cheaply made. So what did Jeep do? they listened and changed all those things about the dash and interior.

Those same people now attacked the change as too luxurious and too car like. The old plastic was much better and looked more like a Jeep.

This crap never ends.
There are some people that will never respect a Jeep that Nazis haven't shot at.

There are others that try far too hard to justify their own purchase by berating the new stuff. The temptation is strong... I've had a TJ since 2004 and I love it. But in nearly every single way, the JK is a better ride, a better off-roader, and a better Jeep. Axles, frame, brakes, you name it.

Grown ups just kind of accept that... we can't buy a new vehicle every single year, and our own self-image and manhood is not judged by anything built by Chrysler... at least I hope, because that would really suck to have your junk tied to theirs. Figuratively. Forget that visual.

I do hope that my JK isn't built on a day when the really good weed shows up in Toledo.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:19 PM   #50
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There are some people that will never respect a Jeep that Nazis haven't shot at.

There are others that try far too hard to justify their own purchase by berating the new stuff. The temptation is strong... I've had a TJ since 2004 and I love it. But in nearly every single way, the JK is a better ride, a better off-roader, and a better Jeep. Axles, frame, brakes, you name it.

Grown ups just kind of accept that... we can't buy a new vehicle every single year, and our own self-image and manhood is not judged by anything built by Chrysler... at least I hope, because that would really suck to have your junk tied to theirs. Figuratively. Forget that visual.

I do hope that my JK isn't built on a day when the really good weed shows up in Toledo.
I think your axles are OK...

Actually, the TJ had a better drivetrain than the JK, until 2012.

Lighter in weight, and a more durable engine.

The JK does have a better ride and more creature comforts,
not including the engine until now.

I also think it looks a bit better.

However, a Jeep is a Jeep.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:19 PM   #51
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I must say, these are some of the best written "forum type" arguments I've seen in a while.

There's no typos, guys are making historical war references. Crazy.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:22 PM   #52
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I'm my own worst enemy. My previous Jeep was a 1980 CJ7 Renegade. When the Wrangler was born in 87, I despised it. I swore I would never own one. My JK is better than that CJ in every single way (except maybe the ease of folding the windshield). On and off road it's hands down better. That being said, I still have a hard time referring to it as a "Wrangler". I prefer to just call it a Jeep,
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:26 PM   #53
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My .02 cents.

I loaded up 2 friends and took them and their gear to Colorado, Yellowstone, and Montana last week. My wife loaned me her new '10 Unlimited sport (had 2550 miles on it). She knows I would wheel it. I've been driving from Ohio to Colorado almost every year to drive or ride something. This year we did - 4714 miles in 9 days, including about 200 miles of trails including Engineer, Cinnamon, Governors Basin, and Crede. I was surprised the stock setup held us so well, at the end of the trip we were still in alignment.

Had it been my other truck I would have done Black Bear, Corkscrew, and Pookeepsee. That probably would have broken something here.

On the Kansas Freeway the stock 3.8 jeep did well, we passed the highway patrol doing 80 in Kansas (Speed limit 75 in kansas, Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming) they didn't care.

However, going up the long steep grades, like 7 miles up a 6% at 65mph at 9000' elevation = no way. The motor wanted to run at 5000 rpms to try keep up, so I backed off. Here is where more power would have come in handy. On the trails, the Stock Jeep did fine - take your time and read the trails. I could have used a front locker a few times but managed without it.


Having just sold my Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel, I was looking for transportation.

I returned Sunday, and contactd a dealer Monday who looked out of state to find a black Rubicon Unlimited '12 model with the Automatic, 4.1 and towing. $3300 off sticker, putting it close to the '11s price. The rubi has the electronic sway bar disco, and front and rear lockers. I might put a set of 35's and do that trail next year.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:28 PM   #54
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I'm my own worst enemy. My previous Jeep was a 1980 CJ7 Renegade. When the Wrangler was born in 87, I despised it. I swore I would never own one. My JK is better than that CJ in every single way (except maybe the ease of folding the windshield). On and off road it's hands down better. That being said, I still have a hard time referring to it as a "Wrangler". I prefer to just call it a Jeep,
My father had a CJ7 when I was too young to drive. Still, I had a lot of fun as a passenger.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 3JKs1H1 View Post
My .02 cents.

I loaded up 2 friends and took them and their gear to Colorado, Yellowstone, and Montana last week. My wife loaned me her new '10 Unlimited sport (had 2550 miles on it). She knows I would wheel it. I've been driving from Ohio to Colorado almost every year to drive or ride something. This year we did - 4714 miles in 9 days, including about 200 miles of trails including Engineer, Cinnamon, Governors Basin, and Crede. I was surprised the stock setup held us so well, at the end of the trip we were still in alignment.

Had it been my other truck I would have done Black Bear, Corkscrew, and Pookeepsee. That probably would have broken something here.

On the Kansas Freeway the stock 3.8 jeep did well, we passed the highway patrol doing 80 in Kansas (Speed limit 75 in kansas, Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming) they didn't care.

However, going up the long steep grades, like 7 miles up a 6% at 65mph at 9000' elevation = no way. The motor wanted to run at 5000 rpms to try keep up, so I backed off. Here is where more power would have come in handy. On the trails, the Stock Jeep did fine - take your time and read the trails. I could have used a front locker a few times but managed without it.


Having just sold my Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel, I was looking for transportation.

I returned Sunday, and contactd a dealer Monday who looked out of state to find a black Rubicon Unlimited '12 model with the Automatic, 4.1 and towing. $3300 off sticker, putting it close to the '11s price. The rubi has the electronic sway bar disco, and front and rear lockers. I might put a set of 35's and do that trail next year.
I will not do Black Bear in a long wheelbase Unlimited until Chrysler upgrades the driver's seat to properly flush the deposit I would involuntarily eject on those switchbacks.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:36 PM   #56
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0-60 times for a Wrangler...really? I mean Really?
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:38 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by MTH View Post
I must say, these are some of the best written "forum type" arguments I've seen in a while.

There's no typos, guys are making historical war references. Crazy.

Should I spray mine in "winter camo"?

Yes, it IS a good discussion.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:48 PM   #58
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I did blackbear twice in an H1 and once in a 2 door JK. Once the back seat driver jumped and walked the rest of the way down the switchbacks. It is tight.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3JKs1H1
My .02 cents.

I loaded up 2 friends and took them and their gear to Colorado, Yellowstone, and Montana last week. My wife loaned me her new '10 Unlimited sport (had 2550 miles on it). She knows I would wheel it. I've been driving from Ohio to Colorado almost every year to drive or ride something. This year we did - 4714 miles in 9 days, including about 200 miles of trails including Engineer, Cinnamon, Governors Basin, and Crede. I was surprised the stock setup held us so well, at the end of the trip we were still in alignment.

Had it been my other truck I would have done Black Bear, Corkscrew, and Pookeepsee. That probably would have broken something here.

On the Kansas Freeway the stock 3.8 jeep did well, we passed the highway patrol doing 80 in Kansas (Speed limit 75 in kansas, Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming) they didn't care.

However, going up the long steep grades, like 7 miles up a 6% at 65mph at 9000' elevation = no way. The motor wanted to run at 5000 rpms to try keep up, so I backed off. Here is where more power would have come in handy. On the trails, the Stock Jeep did fine - take your time and read the trails. I could have used a front locker a few times but managed without it.

Having just sold my Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel, I was looking for transportation.

I returned Sunday, and contactd a dealer Monday who looked out of state to find a black Rubicon Unlimited '12 model with the Automatic, 4.1 and towing. $3300 off sticker, putting it close to the '11s price. The rubi has the electronic sway bar disco, and front and rear lockers. I might put a set of 35's and do that trail next year.
X2. To get to the trails in Colorado you need some power on the freeway to keep up with others. There is finally a wrangler that does this. I applaud the evolution. This will keep it selling, and probably make me trade up from a TJ. The prod dev folks at Chrysler are doing their job.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:55 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by NEO Jeep View Post
I think your axles are OK...

Actually, the TJ had a better drivetrain than the JK, until 2012.

Lighter in weight, and a more durable engine.

The JK does have a better ride and more creature comforts,
not including the engine until now.

I also think it looks a bit better.

However, a Jeep is a Jeep.
You evidently have no personal experience with the 3.8. It's been around a long time and has proven to be an extremely durable engine. The lack of power in the Wrangler has never been the 3.8 but rather the engine programming and the choice of gearing in the transmissions. Look at the specs between the 2011 and 2012 transmissions.. Reprogrammed the 3.8 can put out 230hp and 268ftlbs torque (thats more torque then the 3.6 BTW) and still lacks, but change the diff gears and its a totally different animal.. Kudos to Chrysler for finally addressing this issue, but they could just as easily have done it with the 3.8. The change over to the 3.6 was not about better or more power but about streamlining manufacturing and using an engine that can be used cross platform rather then the 3.8 which has been specially built just for the Wrangler.
BTW I think Chrysler's marketing scheme worked quite well. How many 07-11 Wrangler owners have they roped into trading up to a 2012.

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