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Old 12-19-2011, 11:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kik

I understand the theory but I guess I lucked out because mine doesn't. It does shift slightly better warm but nothing that I can say more "difficult" cold.
It think it says it in the manual about cold weather operation.

It's been down to 20 a couple times and I have had 0 issues.

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Old 12-19-2011, 02:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by sonofboxster View Post
I have about 500 miles on a new 2012 JK w/6 speed. Has been quiet and shifted smooth as baby butt from day 1. Sounds to me like your tranny was damaged running with low fluid if it does not revert to above condition. BTW, if I read correctly, if capacity is 1.6 pints and you added 1 pint, it was not missing 1/3 fluid, it was missing 2/3 fluid.

How can this sort of thing happen at the factory? I've seen photos and vid clips, it's a gorgeous facility, and people there seem awake and sober. I don't get it.
I made the correction in my 2nd post...the capacity is supposed to be 1.6 quarts not 1.6 pints. It was 1 pint low or .5 quart so about 1/3 low.

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Old 12-19-2011, 02:41 PM   #33
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While it is unacceptable that the trans was under-filled, it would probably been advisable that the dealer had been made aware of it and they measure and instal the fluid. This would have added to the documentation that may be necessary to fix a later problem or to address the noises. Right now though, it is just your word that the trans was under-filled. Nevertheless, with as few miles as it has, it could have probably been run dry without damage.
Problem was the dealership made me make an appointment and wait a full week before bringing it in, and I have to drive the thing so I wasn't about to wait that long. There was no other way I had to measure the fluid level other than adding fluid to the transmission until it came out the drain hole. I used factory mopar fluid to top it off, and can present the bottle if they question it. There is no documentation that states that an owner cannot perform their own maintenance to be covered under warranty. I don't think they are going to question my integrity because it just doesn't make sense why someone would lie about fluid level in a transmission on something this new.
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:45 PM   #34
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My 2012 manual Sahara is at the dealer today because it has been popping out of fourth often. The other threads that I've read here indicated that they replaced the boot or had the transmission rebuilt. Now I'm wondering if it was popping because of low fluid
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:01 PM   #35
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My 2012 manual Sahara is at the dealer today because it has been popping out of fourth often. The other threads that I've read here indicated that they replaced the boot or had the transmission rebuilt. Now I'm wondering if it was popping because of low fluid
If it pops out of gear, this is due to the collar not making full contact with the engagement teeth on 4th gear, and this would probably have more to do with the shift lever not being able to move completely through its travel range as it would with the fluid level. However, if the fluid level was low, this could starve the mainshaft of lubrication because oil is picked up by the gears on the countershaft and brought up to the gears and sliding parts on the mainshaft. If the collars on the mainshaft were not getting enough lubrication, they would be more difficult to move back and forth when engaging a gear. This could potentially translate into the collar binding and not fully seating into position allowing it to "pop" back out.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:43 PM   #36
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I had the same clutch noise that you are talking about in my 2012 JKU. I have 80 miles on it and took it to the dealer today. Why don't you just take it in and have them check everything out instead of worrying and just assuming what's wrong? The warranty is there for a reason, no vehicle is going to be perfect from the factory.
I heard back from the dealer and the service adviser told me it was a bad bearing in the clutch and a faulty lever. Not a lot of info but I'm assuming it's the throw out bearing, not sure what the lever is. Had to order the part so they are doing the replacement tomorrow and then I'll have it back.
For the gurgling sound, they are going to check all the coolant levels and burp the system in case there is air in there. Should be good as new tomorrow!
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:05 AM   #37
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My 2012 manual Sahara is at the dealer today because it has been popping out of fourth often. The other threads that I've read here indicated that they replaced the boot or had the transmission rebuilt. Now I'm wondering if it was popping because of low fluid
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Originally Posted by RedRubi2012 View Post
If it pops out of gear, this is due to the collar not making full contact with the engagement teeth on 4th gear, and this would probably have more to do with the shift lever not being able to move completely through its travel range as it would with the fluid level. However, if the fluid level was low, this could starve the mainshaft of lubrication because oil is picked up by the gears on the countershaft and brought up to the gears and sliding parts on the mainshaft. If the collars on the mainshaft were not getting enough lubrication, they would be more difficult to move back and forth when engaging a gear. This could potentially translate into the collar binding and not fully seating into position allowing it to "pop" back out.
I had the same pooping out of 4th and grinding problem - it took the dealer a week and I have a rebuilt transmission! Stuff happens. Works like a dream now. I am thoroughly enjoying my 6-speed. Get it fixed and enjoy the result.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:36 PM   #38
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I had the same pooping out of 4th and grinding problem - it took the dealer a week and I have a rebuilt transmission! Stuff happens. Works like a dream now. I am thoroughly enjoying my 6-speed. Get it fixed and enjoy the result.
I am glad to hear that you were able to get something done. I went to the dealership today and reproduced the clicking noise in my clutch for the technician and then explained how my transmission was underfilled and has been difficult to shift with alot of gear noise and gear whine present. They wouldn't do anything while I was there indicating that they needed to call chrysler to get authorization to perform any repairs. The technician agreed with me that the clutch noise was abnormal but stated that being .5 quarts low wouldn't have any affect on the transmission. I test drove another 2012 with manual trans. with the technician for a comparison in shift quality and gear noise and the other Jeep was lightyears better. It was almost completely quiet in 3rd and 4th and there was no difficulty shifting into 2nd. The tech. said he would note the fact that my trans. was abnormally noisy but didn't think that Chrysler would authorize them to do anything about it at this point.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:09 PM   #39
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I don't know what dealer you go to but that is horrible service. I just got mine back from the dealer, they had it two days. Replaced the throw out bearing and fork in the clutch and now the noise I had which sounds just like yours is gone. They also burped the coolant system and now the liquid gurgling sound in the dash is gone as well. I would find another dealer to take your Jeep to for service as it was very simple to get mine fixed.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:16 PM   #40
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I don't know what dealer you go to but that is horrible service. I just got mine back from the dealer, they had it two days. Replaced the throw out bearing and fork in the clutch and now the noise I had which sounds just like yours is gone. They also burped the coolant system and now the liquid gurgling sound in the dash is gone as well. I would find another dealer to take your Jeep to for service as it was very simple to get mine fixed.
The technician that I worked with claimed that there was no way to purge the cooling system and that the gurgling noise was nomal. Completely unbelievable...I'm ready to just take off the radiator cap and run the engine to purge it myself
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by RedRubi2012

The technician that I worked with claimed that there was no way to purge the cooling system and that the gurgling noise was nomal. Completely unbelievable...I'm ready to just take off the radiator cap and run the engine to purge it myself
I have had luck burping cooling system by parking on an incline and let gravity be your friend.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:13 PM   #42
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Why is the gurgling sound some hear such a big deal?
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:12 PM   #43
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I've had a few of the same issues with my 2012, currently about 2500 miles on it ...I do get the hard shifting from 1st-2nd and sometimes into 1st, but what annoys me is a weird rattle I get in 3rd-4th at during aceleration. Its a rattle sound from under my shifter/dash somewhere but not a plastic type sound its weird.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:43 PM   #44
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The technician that I worked with claimed that there was no way to purge the cooling system and that the gurgling noise was nomal. Completely unbelievable...I'm ready to just take off the radiator cap and run the engine to purge it myself
You need to find a new dealer then. I just told them mine had a weird noise when they were fixing the clutch so they burped the system also. It can of course be purged, you should just do it yourself. Open the radiator cap and coolant tank and let the jeep run until its at operating tip and gets all the air out of the coolant.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:00 AM   #45
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I have been having some issues with my manual trans. and clutch since I took delivery of my 2012 Rubicon including:

- "Rattlesnake" sound that develops when the vehicle is not moving and the clutch is depressed fully in neutral or the transmission is put into gear.

- Notchy shifting from 1st to 2nd gear.

- Intermittant difficulty in putting the transmission in 1st gear when stopped or slowly rolling at 1-2 mph.

- Loud grumbling sound and gear whine in 3rd and 4th gear that isn't present in other gears.

I now have 260 miles on the vehicle and I decided just to check the fluid levels in the transmission for the heck of it. I was shocked to find that removal of the fill plug did not produce any fluid seepage. On level ground it took exactly 1 pint or 16 ounces of the Mopar MS-9224 NSG370/NV3550 manual transmission fluid until it was level with the fill hole and started to spill out. The transmission fluid capacity is listed to be 1.6 pints so this transmission was missing 1/3 of the total fluid capacity.

I took the vehicle for a few mile ride after filling and the difference in shift quality was very noticable. Granted it was still a bit notchy shifting from 1st to 2nd, and the noise in 3rd and 4th was still there but was much quieter. I did not have any trouble getting it into 1st gear like I did before.

This has me concerned about the additional wear that has been put on the the syncros, gears, and counter shafts after having been driving the vehicle for nearly 300 miles with the fluid level so low especially with a new vehicle during the breakin period. There is no doubt that the life of these parts has been compromised to some degree but it would be hard to quantify how much. I am bringing it into the dealership on Tuesday to address the undercarriage paint issues I have and I am definately going to bring up this point with the Chrysler Rep that is supposed to be there, but I think I should get a new transmission or at least have mine disassembled to check for excessive wear on internal components. As a sidenote I checked diff. fluids and transfer case levels and they were full.

How many others with a NSG370 6 speed manual transmission have noticed their factory fill being excessively low and what did Chrysler do about it if anything?
The "rattlesnake" sound you speak of is nothing more than clutch chatter. It happens on Jeeps, and it happens on 100000 dollar sports cars. This can happen due to a LONG list of reasons. However, you should never hold the clutch in on a manual transmission. It wears on the throwout bearing, eventually, leading to crankwalk. Don't make it a habit.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:10 AM   #46
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I've had a few of the same issues with my 2012, currently about 2500 miles on it ...I do get the hard shifting from 1st-2nd and sometimes into 1st, but what annoys me is a weird rattle I get in 3rd-4th at during aceleration. Its a rattle sound from under my shifter/dash somewhere but not a plastic type sound its weird.
What you are describing is similar to what mine does in 3rd/4th. Mine is definately a gear noise as if these 2 gears in particular have loose tolerances with repect to the mainshaft or maybe some wobble. I also get this noise during acceleration when the gears are loaded and then it will quiet down a bit when cruising, but I notice a high pitched gear whine thats somewhat intermittant but present only in 3rd or 4th. The 1st/2nd gate is just annoying because it will stick in first at times during a shift and then bind when going into 2nd. The best I can do while driving is shift extremely slow and pause for a second between 1st and 2nd and this sometimes makes it smoother but not always.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:14 AM   #47
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The "rattlesnake" sound you speak of is nothing more than clutch chatter. It happens on Jeeps, and it happens on 100000 dollar sports cars. This can happen due to a LONG list of reasons. However, you should never hold the clutch in on a manual transmission. It wears on the throwout bearing, eventually, leading to crankwalk. Don't make it a habit.
This is not clutch chatter because the vehicle is stationary and the clutch is not being loaded. The only way the clutch plate could be "chattering" against the flywheel or pressure plate in the scenario I described would be if there is excessive runout on either of these components allowing the clutch plate to contact them when the pedal is depressed.

For the record the clutch is only depressed on my vehicles long enough to put the transmission in or out of gear.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:30 AM   #48
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Why is the gurgling sound some hear such a big deal?
Its not that its a big deal but you would understand more if you were experiencing it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:27 AM   #49
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This is not clutch chatter because the vehicle is stationary and the clutch is not being loaded. The only way the clutch plate could be "chattering" against the flywheel or pressure plate in the scenario I described would be if there is excessive runout on either of these components allowing the clutch plate to contact them when the pedal is depressed.

For the record the clutch is only depressed on my vehicles long enough to put the transmission in or out of gear.

A car doesn't need to move to chatter the clutch, it can be standing still with the pedal depressed. Like I said, there is a SLEW of things that cause clutch chatter, and they are impossible to diagnose on the internet. You are correct though, that there has to be excessive runout for this to occur.

As for your clutch discipline...goon on you. There are tons and tons of people, that keep their clutch pedal depressed all the time. Traffic, red lights, stop signs, you name it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:49 AM   #50
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A car doesn't need to move to chatter the clutch, it can be standing still with the pedal depressed. Like I said, there is a SLEW of things that cause clutch chatter, and they are impossible to diagnose on the internet. You are correct though, that there has to be excessive runout for this to occur.

As for your clutch discipline...goon on you. There are tons and tons of people, that keep their clutch pedal depressed all the time. Traffic, red lights, stop signs, you name it.
If there are out of tolerance parts in the clutch system and the condition is indeed caused by insufficient gap on either side of the clutch plate when it is engaged then repair should be covered under warranty. If it is chatter, then that means that even when the pedal is all the way in the clutch plate could still turn with the flywheel which would turn the input shaft of the trans. The syncros would endure more wear trying to spin up the gears, and if there was enough clutch pressure still present this could even allow grinding on gear engagement teeth. I sure hope its just a pilot bearing.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:52 AM   #51
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Grinding shifting into 3rd Gear

Hey all-

I have a newly owned '12 JK 2Dr
I notice a grinding sound when shifting into third when accelerating at high RPMs. It doesnt make a sound when going at low speeds. Only when I accelerate hard.
I am a bit concerned. Any input is appreciated.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:18 PM   #52
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Hey all-

I have a newly owned '12 JK 2Dr
I notice a grinding sound when shifting into third when accelerating at high RPMs. It doesnt make a sound when going at low speeds. Only when I accelerate hard.
I am a bit concerned. Any input is appreciated.
These medium duty transmissions are not designed to be powershifted or shifted fast. I find that mine shifts best around 2300-2500 RPM and requires a bit of a routine. I will first take it up to RPM and back off the throttle for a split second before I engage the clutch. When the clutch is fully engaged, I will then pull the transmission out of the current gear and pause for a split second between gears before putting it into the next gear. This method has been the best way I have found to smooth out the shift feel and minimize notchiness or grinding into the next gear. Its not perfect because it will at times still do it, but it really reduces the frequency.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:47 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by RedRubi2012

These medium duty transmissions are not designed to be powershifted or shifted fast. I find that mine shifts best around 2300-2500 RPM and requires a bit of a routine. I will first take it up to RPM and back off the throttle for a split second before I engage the clutch. When the clutch is fully engaged, I will then pull the transmission out of the current gear and pause for a split second between gears before putting it into the next gear. This method has been the best way I have found to smooth out the shift feel and minimize notchiness or grinding into the next gear. Its not perfect because it will at times still do it, but it really reduces the frequency.
Right on ^^
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:13 AM   #54
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Good luck getting a transmission out of them for a low fluid level and being driven only 260 miles. You'll get a BS story about how there is nothing wrong with it instead. Also keep in mind a pilot bearing and throw out bearing have nothing to do with fluid level in the tranny. They can be replaced and the same transmission is going back into your Jeep.

Consider draining and refilling the transmission after you meet with the rep with a high quality approved Synthetic product meeting Chrysler specs. Or try and fight them for a drain and refill and see how much metal is on the magnetic plug. Expect to see some and have them tell you its normal. You can try and fight for an extended warranty, good luck with that too.

What is the problem with the paint on the undercarriage?

Spot on about how you're supposed to shift the tranny in a Wrangler, a slight pause in N is a good idea, it gets everything nice and lined up. These are not short throw sports car transmissions.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:24 PM   #55
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Thanks. Makes sense to me. I agree, it shifts nicely when I follow the routine you mentioned.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:08 PM   #56
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Hey guys, another underfilled 2012 wrangler transmission here! Brought it back to the stealership (AUTOSERV in Tilton NH) 4 days after I bought it telling them that it was REALLY notchey shifting, The Head Dummy(Technician) took it for a ride ,then asked another dummy for a second opinion they concluded its a Jeep thang and not to be shifted FAST but totally normal.... A week later I read this forum , bought 2 qts of Syncromesh Pennzoil, opened fill plug and with my finger couldnt find any fluid at all!!! So I drained it and 1.2 qts came out!!! Put 2 full qts in and it barely started to come out!! Just wait till I get that buyers survey, called the service manager and let him have it!!! Shifts much better now !! Thanks for your help guys!!!
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:42 PM   #57
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Hey guys, another underfilled 2012 wrangler transmission here! Brought it back to the stealership (AUTOSERV in Tilton NH) 4 days after I bought it telling them that it was REALLY notchey shifting, The Head Dummy(Technician) took it for a ride ,then asked another dummy for a second opinion they concluded its a Jeep thang and not to be shifted FAST but totally normal.... A week later I read this forum , bought 2 qts of Syncromesh Pennzoil, opened fill plug and with my finger couldnt find any fluid at all!!! So I drained it and 1.2 qts came out!!! Put 2 full qts in and it barely started to come out!! Just wait till I get that buyers survey, called the service manager and let him have it!!! Shifts much better now !! Thanks for your help guys!!!
This is very interesting. I had a new early 2000s Dodge Ram that did the same thing. It came under filled from the factory and it was hard to, if possible at all, to shift it into second gear on rough roads. It grinned badly and refuse to shift. After servicing the rear differential and filling up to spec, it shifted great.

I hope this is the cause of all the problems with the Wrangler manual transmission. I'm getting ready to buy a 6speed JK but this issue has me concerned.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:30 PM   #58
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I finally got around to checking mine. Sure enough, it was low too.

I went ahead and drained and refilled, but to be honest it didn't make much difference in the shifting.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:44 PM   #59
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I find it hard to believe that topping off the oil level on the transmission would have any improvement on it's performance. It being a pint short could be the difference between the oil level being checked when it's hot or cold. The transmission case was still mostly full. When the gears are spinning around, the oil inside the case is bathing everything inside. It's even getting up into the top cover and lubricating the shift tower. It's like a big oil blender in a sense.

If you pulled the drain plug and just a pint came out, then I'd be worried.

If you wanted to try smoothing out shifting, I would drain the transmission and try a high quality synthetic gear lube that meets factory specs. If you don't like it, then drain it again and go back to what you started with.

I would also put more miles on it before drawing any conclusion. Mine shifted "stiff" when new. Now with 2K miles on it, it's much smoother. Give it some more miles to break-in.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:21 AM   #60
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This is all very interesting. I have been having issues with difficult shifting and grinding from 3rd to 4th. It never occurred to me to check the transmission fluid - I wonder if this could be a cause.

Can someone tell me how I go about checking the fluid level? Is there like a small dipstick or do you just fill it until full type of thing? I've never check manual trans fluid level, though I have changed auto trans fluid before on a Nissan. Thanks

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