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Old 12-19-2011, 04:42 AM   #1
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2012 6 speed manual trans. underfilled from factory

I have been having some issues with my manual trans. and clutch since I took delivery of my 2012 Rubicon including:

- "Rattlesnake" sound that develops when the vehicle is not moving and the clutch is depressed fully in neutral or the transmission is put into gear.

- Notchy shifting from 1st to 2nd gear.

- Intermittant difficulty in putting the transmission in 1st gear when stopped or slowly rolling at 1-2 mph.

- Loud grumbling sound and gear whine in 3rd and 4th gear that isn't present in other gears.

I now have 260 miles on the vehicle and I decided just to check the fluid levels in the transmission for the heck of it. I was shocked to find that removal of the fill plug did not produce any fluid seepage. On level ground it took exactly 1 pint or 16 ounces of the Mopar MS-9224 NSG370/NV3550 manual transmission fluid until it was level with the fill hole and started to spill out. The transmission fluid capacity is listed to be 1.6 pints so this transmission was missing 1/3 of the total fluid capacity.

I took the vehicle for a few mile ride after filling and the difference in shift quality was very noticable. Granted it was still a bit notchy shifting from 1st to 2nd, and the noise in 3rd and 4th was still there but was much quieter. I did not have any trouble getting it into 1st gear like I did before.

This has me concerned about the additional wear that has been put on the the syncros, gears, and counter shafts after having been driving the vehicle for nearly 300 miles with the fluid level so low especially with a new vehicle during the breakin period. There is no doubt that the life of these parts has been compromised to some degree but it would be hard to quantify how much. I am bringing it into the dealership on Tuesday to address the undercarriage paint issues I have and I am definately going to bring up this point with the Chrysler Rep that is supposed to be there, but I think I should get a new transmission or at least have mine disassembled to check for excessive wear on internal components. As a sidenote I checked diff. fluids and transfer case levels and they were full.

How many others with a NSG370 6 speed manual transmission have noticed their factory fill being excessively low and what did Chrysler do about it if anything?

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Old 12-19-2011, 05:17 AM   #2
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You should trade this vehicle in on something more suitable to your liking. A wrangler will never live up to your expectations. You are going to make yourself miserable worrying over every little detail of the vehicle. Life is too short. In the famous words of Bobby Mcferrin,"Don't Worry, Be Happy."

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Old 12-19-2011, 05:20 AM   #3
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You should trade this vehicle in on something more suitable to your liking. A wrangler will never live up to your expectations. You are going to make yourself miserable worrying over every little detail of the vehicle. Life is too short. In the famous words of Bobby Mcferrin,"Don't Worry, Be Happy."
This vehicle is "suitable to my liking" and I wouldn't own anything else. How does that have anything to do with my transmission not being filled properly? Stay on topic, or don't respond to my post.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRubi2012

This vehicle is "suitable to my liking" and I wouldn't own anything else. How does that have anything to do with my transmission not being filled properly? Stay on topic or don't respond to my post.
This isn't Facebook. You posted your opinion. I posted mine. That's how a forum works. I was on topic. But since you went there, did you completely drain the transmission of fluid and measure, then refill? Or is the only having 1/3 the specified fluid just a guess?
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:36 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by mcrodney View Post
This isn't Facebook. You posted your opinion. I posted mine. That's how a forum works. I was on topic. But since you went there, did you completely drain the transmission of fluid and measure, then refill? Or is the only having 1/3 the specified fluid just a guess?
I said it was 1/3 low, so that means it had about 2/3 of the specified amount of fluid as it was delivered to me with 1.1 quarts. Completely draining and refilling would be unnecessary...I simply measured how much additional fluid it took until it just started to seep out of the fill hole which measured to be exactly 16 oz. so this is no guess. The service manual instructions for the NSG370 state to fill until fluid comes out of the fill hole.

I made a mistake in the first post it should be 1.6 quarts from the factory not 1.6 pints.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:38 AM   #6
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What do you mean by "rattlesnake"
sound?
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:45 AM   #7
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And btw, I was coming to you from a position of understanding. I bought a new Kia Sportage in 1998. It had every issue known to man. We only drove it 14 days the first 6 months we owned it. Every time we drove it, it literally broke down or broke something. Didn't qualify for lemon law. Was so angry after spending a very hard earned 18000.00. It consumed my entire life. I sat in front of the dealership and alerted customers to the faulty product. I spam emailed endless email lists alerting the public to the product. I filled Kia motors USA email boxes and voicemails starting at 5:30 pm so they couldn't receive any other communication unless they were at their desk. Got two cease and desist from Kia. Lost a lot of friends. But mostly lost 9 months I will never recover! Traded it in after 9 months for 3000.00 on my first dodge! Best 15,000.00 loss ever. I got my life back.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:45 AM   #8
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What do you mean by "rattlesnake"
sound?
The sound coming from the trans/clutch sounds like a very loud rattlesnakes tail.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:16 AM   #9
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That is disturbing. As a new vehicle owner (any brand/model) you should not have to double check all of the fluid levels, especially after "dealer prep".

I would hope you have documented all of this and go see your dealer. It needs to be noted somehow for future reference when/if your tranny has issues.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:25 AM   #10
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No problems at all with my 10 Rubi 6spd. But, just curious about where your trans. was assembled. It will indicate on the window sticker for engine and trans. My engine was assembled in the US and trans. Germany. It's a good idea to bring it in for the problems you indicated. I think the only thing they'll be able to do for you on the paint issue is to possibly have a body shop mask and spray unless they decide to rattle can it themselves.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:29 AM   #11
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Cjanged my manual transmission fluid after 2000 miles

I also noticed the factory fill was a little short on fluid and after removing the drain plug i was not happy with all the metal shavings on the magnet. after refilling with amsoil i do notice everything running smoother and better shifting in cool temps.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:31 AM   #12
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That is disturbing. As a new vehicle owner (any brand/model) you should not have to double check all of the fluid levels, especially after "dealer prep".

I would hope you have documented all of this and go see your dealer. It needs to be noted somehow for future reference when/if your tranny has issues.
Dealership did the "pre delivery inspection" before I drove off with it, and in fact I had to wait around for more than an hour while they did so. It is very obvious that they did not check the fluid levels in the transmission and I suspect they didn't look at the transfer case or differentials either. I am not sure what the standard PDI consists of, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if most dealerships did not check these fluids. I would be surprised if most did any more than remove the stickers and plastic, install the antenna, and check the engine oil, coolant, brake fluid, and clutch fluid.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:35 AM   #13
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No problems at all with my 10 Rubi 6spd. But, just curious about where your trans. was assembled. It will indicate on the window sticker for engine and trans. My engine was assembled in the US and trans. Germany. It's a good idea to bring it in for the problems you indicated. I think the only thing they'll be able to do for you on the paint issue is to possibly have a body shop mask and spray unless they decide to rattle can it themselves.
Have you actually checked your transmission fluid level as it was delivered? How much was in it?

My window sticker states the same as yours where the country of origin for the engine is the US and the transmission is Germany.

I will be satisfied with a "rattle can" job as long as its masked properly and there is no overspray on other components.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:38 AM   #14
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Yeah, I highly doubt anyone is crawling underneath to check those fluids. There is no check for clutch fluid. It's a sealed system.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:39 AM   #15
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No problems at all with my 10 Rubi 6spd. But, just curious about where your trans. was assembled. It will indicate on the window sticker for engine and trans. My engine was assembled in the US and trans. Germany. It's a good idea to bring it in for the problems you indicated. I think the only thing they'll be able to do for you on the paint issue is to possibly have a body shop mask and spray unless they decide to rattle can it themselves.
All of the manual transmission are made in Germany, but they don't fill them there.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:46 AM   #16
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Intermittant difficulty in putting the transmission in 1st gear when stopped or slowly rolling at 1-2 mph.
I have this in the mornings sometimes. I just double clutch it and it goes into first easily.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:48 AM   #17
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I have this in the mornings sometimes. I just double clutch it and it goes into first easily.
You shouldn't need to double clutch with the triple cone syncros in 1st and 2nd gear. I haven't had the difficulty getting into first since I filled the transmission. Have you checked your fluid level?
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:56 AM   #18
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You shouldn't need to double clutch with the triple cone syncros in 1st and 2nd gear. I haven't had the difficulty getting into first since I filled the transmission. Have you checked your fluid level?
No, I haven't. The problem goes away after it warms up.

Wouldn't hurt to check though.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:02 AM   #19
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No, I haven't. The problem goes away after it warms up.

Wouldn't hurt to check though.
It's normal to be difficult to shift into 1st and 2nd under 40 degrees until the fluid warms up.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:04 AM   #20
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I also noticed the factory fill was a little short on fluid and after removing the drain plug i was not happy with all the metal shavings on the magnet. after refilling with amsoil i do notice everything running smoother and better shifting in cool temps.
Those metal shavings are perfectly normal.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:04 AM   #21
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Dealership did the "pre delivery inspection" before I drove off with it, and in fact I had to wait around for more than an hour while they did so. It is very obvious that they did not check the fluid levels in the transmission and I suspect they didn't look at the transfer case or differentials either. I am not sure what the standard PDI consists of, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if most dealerships did not check these fluids. I would be surprised if most did any more than remove the stickers and plastic, install the antenna, and check the engine oil, coolant, brake fluid, and clutch fluid.
The PDI at any of the dealers I have worked for included pulling the plastic out and a quick wash. Nobody checks the fluids, they don't care since there is a warranty.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:58 AM   #22
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I have a hunch that the "rattlesnake" sound I am hearing when the clutch is depressed is a faulty pilot bearing/bushing. When I start the Jeep up, the transmission is typically in neutral with the clutch depressed, but then I release it while the engine is warming up, which causes the input shaft on the transmission to spin at the same speed as the flywheel. When I depress the clutch pedal again, the pressure plate releases pressure on the clutch disk which is splined to the input shaft of the transmission, so the input shaft rotation starts slowing down while the flywheel is still spinning at the same rate. Since the pilot bearing is mounted in the flywheel and it engages the end of the transmission input shaft, the difference in rotational speed between the two causes the inner and outer ring of the pilot bearing to turn at a different rate, and this is probably where the noise is originating from.

I also notice that if I depress the clutch pedal, and then drop the transmission into a gear while the vehicle is stationary, the noise becomes much louder. This seems to make sense because mainshaft of the transmission is not turning when the vehicle is not moving, so dropping the transmission into a gear will suddenly stop the input shaft and the relative speed between the halves of the pilot bearing will differ much quicker than when the input shaft speed slowly decreases as is the case of pushing in the clutch in neutral.

This also seems to explain why it takes a few seconds for the noise to start occurring from the moment I depress the pedal. If the input shaft was spinning at the same rate as the flywheel originally, when I depress the clutch pedal it will start to lose rotational speed as it freewheels down, but this will take a little time. As the difference in speed between the flywheel and the input shaft gets larger, the halves of the pilot bearing spin at increasingly different speeds and the noise starts to get louder and more distinct.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRubi2012
I have a hunch that the "rattlesnake" sound I am hearing when the clutch is depressed is a faulty pilot bearing/bushing. When I start the Jeep up, the transmission is typically in neutral with the clutch depressed, but then I release it while the engine is warming up, which causes the input shaft on the transmission to spin at the same speed as the flywheel. When I depress the clutch pedal again, the pressure plate releases pressure on the clutch disk which is splined to the input shaft of the transmission, so the input shaft rotation starts slowing down while the flywheel is still spinning at the same rate. Since the pilot bearing is mounted in the flywheel and it engages the end of the transmission input shaft, the difference in rotational speed between the two causes the inner and outer ring of the pilot bearing to turn at a different rate, and this is probably where the noise is originating from.

I also notice that if I depress the clutch pedal, and then drop the transmission into a gear while the vehicle is stationary, the noise becomes much louder. This seems to make sense because mainshaft of the transmission is not turning when the vehicle is not moving, so dropping the transmission into a gear will suddenly stop the input shaft and the relative speed between the halves of the pilot bearing will differ much quicker than when the input shaft speed slowly decreases as is the case of pushing in the clutch in neutral.

This also seems to explain why it takes a few seconds for the noise to start occurring from the moment I depress the pedal. If the input shaft was spinning at the same rate as the flywheel originally, when I depress the clutch pedal it will start to lose rotational speed as it freewheels down, but this will take a little time. As the difference in speed between the flywheel and the input shaft gets larger, the halves of the pilot bearing spin at increasingly different speeds and the noise starts to get louder and more distinct.
My Tj had a very noisy tranny and so does my Jk. Especially in neutral clutch out.
Kind of like a rattling sound. Browse any jeep forum and you will find it is completely normal. I think we hear more because there is nothing for insulation.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:14 AM   #24
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My Tj had a very noisy tranny and so does my Jk. Especially in neutral clutch out.
Kind of like a rattling sound. Browse any jeep forum and you will find it is completely normal. I think we hear more because there is nothing for insulation.
If you are in neutral with the clutch out, the input shaft turns which turns the countershaft of the transmission with its gears, which then turns the gears on the mainshaft since they are always in mesh with the countershaft gears. The gears on the mainshaft will be turning freely of the mainshaft when the gearshift lever is in neutral, and the mainshaft itself would not be turning if the vehicle is stationary. The noise you are probably hearing is just loose tolerances on the input shaft or countershaft bearings, which allow them to wobble a bit and otherwise make noise. This is normal and I have experienced this before with other transmissions, but what I am describing is different and not something I have experienced before with any other manual transmission.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:28 AM   #25
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While it is unacceptable that the trans was under-filled, it would probably been advisable that the dealer had been made aware of it and they measure and instal the fluid. This would have added to the documentation that may be necessary to fix a later problem or to address the noises. Right now though, it is just your word that the trans was under-filled. Nevertheless, with as few miles as it has, it could have probably been run dry without damage.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:57 AM   #26
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I have about 500 miles on a new 2012 JK w/6 speed. Has been quiet and shifted smooth as baby butt from day 1. Sounds to me like your tranny was damaged running with low fluid if it does not revert to above condition. BTW, if I read correctly, if capacity is 1.6 pints and you added 1 pint, it was not missing 1/3 fluid, it was missing 2/3 fluid.

How can this sort of thing happen at the factory? I've seen photos and vid clips, it's a gorgeous facility, and people there seem awake and sober. I don't get it.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:35 AM   #27
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The noise in the 3-4 gate is quite normal on these trannies. It is a sometimes faint gear noise, annoying, but not loud. We had it on our '07' I noticed it on the '12 media drive and I have heard it on my '12, even mentioned it in my write up.

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Old 12-19-2011, 10:56 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by RedRubi2012 View Post
Have you actually checked your transmission fluid level as it was delivered? How much was in it?

My window sticker states the same as yours where the country of origin for the engine is the US and the transmission is Germany.

I will be satisfied with a "rattle can" job as long as its masked properly and there is no overspray on other components.
No. But since I don't have any issues with it and it's smooth and shifts great it can stay the way it is. I do know that the dealer I bought it from gave me a check list with everything you can imagine on it plus. And, I know the tech that did it. He is a die hard Jeeper so I know he took extra care. Like I said no problems, everything works fine, and it has only been back for the flash update. If there were problems from the factory the dealer took care of it.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:59 AM   #29
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All of the manual transmission are made in Germany, but they don't fill them there.
Good to know. Given the engine assembly situation I thought it could be possible manuals could have the same quality control issues based upon assembly locations. My German assembled trans. operates great at this point.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:02 AM   #30
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It's normal to be difficult to shift into 1st and 2nd under 40 degrees until the fluid warms up.
I understand the theory but I guess I lucked out because mine doesn't. It does shift slightly better warm but nothing that I can say more "difficult" cold.

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