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Old 12-31-2011, 09:05 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Wolfeitz View Post
No, those are the stock tires - that's why I couldn't get out of the hole - the mud packed into them so nicely they turned into racing slicks.
Not sure what you were sold...but those are NOT stock Rubicon tires. Clearly see the raised white letters, stock BFG M/T's don't have that. You have a mild all terrain.

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Old 12-31-2011, 09:08 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
They do- and that is where the 30 inches comes into play, the diffs run up the shock towers and tranny/tcase, somewhere up behind the engine block.

Some good reading -

4x4 and a Water Crossing - Treading Water Offroad
thanks for the link. it was some interesting reading and good to know "stuff".

this situation sucks but it would likely have had the same outcome no matter what vehicle you happened to be in. stuck in muck is not good for anything.

good luck

cass

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Old 12-31-2011, 09:12 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Vtlaxsocr12 View Post
I've run my 2011 rubi in water almost up to the engine line and rolled out of there no problem and I did mud probably up to the bottom of my differentials with no problem
Have been driving since and absolutely nothing, my opinion it's manufacturers problem because everyone on this forum knows that stock rubicon should be able to do a little mudding, I mean let's be serious. And I trust daggo66's opinion because he's helped me with a bunch of stuff for my 2011, but I mean this is jeep and a rubicon at that, first off the differentials should not be leaking, that's manufacturers problem, and second off if the freaking transmission is flooding after that, then my transmission should be done right now
Driving through water and being stuck in it for a while are 2 completely different things. We don't know what was happening while he was in there, but I'd assume a lot of shifting and "rocking". Some of that technique alone, if done improperly could have harmed his transmission. Water doesn't "leak" into the diffs or trans, it gets sucked in through the breathers. There could have been lots of splashing and churning going on during his attempt to get out.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:18 AM   #34
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MTH , DAGGO AND others have hit the nail on the head. to the op you stated that the tranny wont shift out of 2nd gear,, that is a big problem, such as sand in your valve body of the transmission, my 2nd concern is that you got sand into the torque converter ( real big problem)
you could go to a tranny shop one that offers power flushing and hope that fixes your issues, if not your looking at a rebuild and i would opt for a new torque converter..
there are many write up's on extending your vent lines for the diffs and T-case, to do all 3 takes about 2 and a half hours .. the T case taking the longest.
and remember this is a hobby it gets costly, i've broken stock parts and replaced with better ones then i broke the better ones and went to the top of the line parts... good luck with your jeep.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:32 AM   #35
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Expensive lesson. I should have bought an Exterra because evidently I can not go anywhere that I wouldn't have gone in that and I could have saved $20K. Sorry, $27K now. Silly me for expecting a Jeep to be able to do what the dealer tells you it can.

One does have to question why Jeep wouldn't make breather tubes standard?!? It would seem to be such an easy, inexpensive, thing...

Obviously had I known, I would have spent half as much making the necessary improvements so that I could go through stuff like that - instead I am stuck replacing parts just to get it back on the road.

Need to look for a big sticker that reads warning, off road vehicle - do not operate off road.
Going offroad in any offroad vehicle comes with risk for damage. Period. You accept responsibility for that risk when you take it offroad. Your expectation is completely unrealistic. There is not a vehicle made to take offroad that you can expect no damage. If someone broke an axle going over a boulder would you consider that a manufacturing defect? I know it sucks and you are hurt, but the blame game on something other than yourself won't make it better. You took the risk, you broke it, now suck it up.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:33 AM   #36
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That is very true, and 15 minutes is a really long time to be shifting while half of your front end is submerged
I honestly had forgotten that he tried for that long to get it out, that makes a bid difference, and especially with the automatic tranny
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:40 AM   #37
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Not sure who's side to take. Your not running the stock Rubicon mud tires, so your tires are a little smaller, on the drivers side the water level isn't above your rock rails so I say its only about 19 inches, the trans is up higher than the water by a couple inches. Unless the picture is deceiving it doesn't look like the passenger side is a whole lot deeper.
They are in fact the stock Rubicon mud terrain tires - the mud just packed in so tight you can not tell. I will try to post up a pic later of the tires after I got out.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:03 AM   #38
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I'm sorry to, that this happened to you, but

You lays your money and you takes your chances, I'm afraid you didn't do enough homework before your "TREK"

The jeeps is advertised as an OFF-ROAD vehicle--not an under water/mud vehicle-

My Xterra was more liable for damage in a situation like you just did and I wouldn't subject my jeep to the same thing-

You've gotta look before you leap-

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Old 12-31-2011, 10:10 AM   #39
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This looks like something for me to look into -making sure those breather tubes are attended to.

Sorry to read about this kind of thing, it could have easily happened to me.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:22 AM   #40
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Expensive lesson. I should have bought an Exterra because evidently I can not go anywhere that I wouldn't have gone in that and I could have saved $20K. Sorry, $27K now. Silly me for expecting a Jeep to be able to do what the dealer tells you it can.

One does have to question why Jeep wouldn't make breather tubes standard?!? It would seem to be such an easy, inexpensive, thing...

Obviously had I known, I would have spent half as much making the necessary improvements so that I could go through stuff like that - instead I am stuck replacing parts just to get it back on the road.

Need to look for a big sticker that reads warning, off road vehicle - do not operate off road.
I have an Xterra (spelled properly) and it can't do anywhere near what my 10 Rubi can do. I understand your situation but you have asked a stock JK to do what it wasn't designed for. It's extremely capable but every vehicle has it's limits. You should have done more research before you pushed the envelop. You're correct that if you spent the $ on the proper mods you would not be in this position. Use it as a learning experience on move on. If you don't want to that's your choice. Your friends not buying a JK because of your inexperience is their loss. I think the dealer went above and beyond for you. No dealer in my area would have done so. On the breather tubes; think about it. If they routed them to the roof line that doesn't mean you have a submarine. You can purchase extensions just like you can purchase better tires and lifts, etc. Hopefully you can resolve this and come back with better experiences. Try what has been recommended and hopefully you'll be back on the road.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:50 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcass

thanks for the link. it was some interesting reading and good to know "stuff".

this situation sucks but it would likely have had the same outcome no matter what vehicle you happened to be in. stuck in muck is not good for anything.

good luck

cass


Not to long ago I hit a flooded street going the speed limit. I was a little worried, not sure of the depth. The canal near my house flooded over.
Took me all but a wrench a cup and about 15min to check the diffs. I found that link when looking for an answer. Very informative
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:50 AM   #42
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Thank you all very much for your insights and comments - it is exactly what I was looking for even if it does sting a bit. I guess the bottom line is that I was not experienced enough to do what I was attempting and I had unrealistic (although intentionally advertised that way) expectations of what my vehicle could do. To be clear, I was not completely off my rocker - I was following a road/trail with many many other tire marks. I entered into the puddle slowly and leveled out in, what I felt was, an acceptable depth. Unfortunately the consistency of the bottom and angle of the sides prevented me from getting out. I have no doubt that I churned everything up too much trying to escape - it was sooo close. Unfortunately I had a cheap come along with me and the welds broke rather than pulling me out. Ironically I received a winch for Christmas - lol. Day late and a dollar short...

Thanks again for all the input. I will see why they are recommending a tranny replacement rather than a flush and will get back when I know more. Diff's and TC have already been cleaned out.
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Wolfeitz
Thank you all very much for your insights and comments - it is exactly what I was looking for even if it does sting a bit. I guess the bottom line is that I was not experienced enough to do what I was attempting and I had unrealistic (although intentionally advertised that way) expectations of what my vehicle could do. To be clear, I was not completely off my rocker - I was following a road/trail with many many other tire marks. I entered into the puddle slowly and leveled out in, what I felt was, an acceptable depth. Unfortunately the consistency of the bottom and angle of the sides prevented me from getting out. I have no doubt that I churned everything up too much trying to escape - it was sooo close. Unfortunately I had a cheap come along with me and the welds broke rather than pulling me out. Ironically I received a winch for Christmas - lol. Day late and a dollar short...

Thanks again for all the input. I will see why they are recommending a tranny replacement rather than a flush and will get back when I know more. Diff's and TC have already been cleaned out.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:16 AM   #44
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Very well put and received--glad you found out, unfortunately--


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfeitz View Post
Thank you all very much for your insights and comments - it is exactly what I was looking for even if it does sting a bit. I guess the bottom line is that I was not experienced enough to do what I was attempting and I had unrealistic (although intentionally advertised that way) expectations of what my vehicle could do. To be clear, I was not completely off my rocker - I was following a road/trail with many many other tire marks. I entered into the puddle slowly and leveled out in, what I felt was, an acceptable depth. Unfortunately the consistency of the bottom and angle of the sides prevented me from getting out. I have no doubt that I churned everything up too much trying to escape - it was sooo close. Unfortunately I had a cheap come along with me and the welds broke rather than pulling me out. Ironically I received a winch for Christmas - lol. Day late and a dollar short...

Thanks again for all the input. I will see why they are recommending a tranny replacement rather than a flush and will get back when I know more. Diff's and TC have already been cleaned out.
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:19 PM   #45
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Flush it and sell it. Id get another one, Its doubtful that one is ever gonna be the same. Especially since it was problematic to begin with...
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:59 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfeitz
I guess the bottom line is that I was not experienced enough to do what I was attempting and I had unrealistic (although intentionally advertised that way) expectations of what my vehicle could do.
Remarkably honest answer. You might get the hang of this yet.

As to advertising, watch the Tour de France this year. Lots of commercials for VERY expensive bikes that, apparently, will rapidly lead me to develop professional cycling talents.

Don't worry--your jeep will do amazing things. You've just got to learn to use it and properly maintain it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfeitz
I will see why they are recommending a tranny replacement rather than a flush and will get back when I know more. Diff's and TC have already been cleaned out.
You're not doing this at the dealer are you? Big bucks. Make sure you get a second opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyPete
Flush it and sell it. Id get another one, Its doubtful that one is ever gonna be the same. Especially since it was problematic to begin with...
Why? It's a jeep man--anything can be fixed.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:21 PM   #47
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Why? It's a jeep man--anything can be fixed.
Fixed yes, but warranty is now flagged and most likely refused in the future. I guess if you got lotsa dough its fine tho...
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:31 PM   #48
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I was following a road/trail with many many other tire marks. I entered into the puddle slowly and leveled out in, what I felt was, an acceptable depth. Unfortunately the consistency of the bottom and angle of the sides prevented me from getting out.
I'm not picking on you, just trying to help. What you don't know from that description is how long ago those tracks were. The water might have been much lower. You also don't know what vehicle made those tracks. It may have had a 6" lift on 40's and barely got wet. Always give nature the proper respect, especially water.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:47 PM   #49
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Sorry to see what happened, but you have gotten some amazing advice from members of this forum. I off-road and evaluate 4x4s for a living and can tell you that an Xterra would have been equally stuck. The Wrangler is an amazing vehicle, but it takes experience to operate. Kind of like a firearm, the end result has a lot to do with the operator.

I have wheeled JKs in every terrain, all over the world, from the Rubicon to Africa, and can tell you that with the right technique that terrain was probably traversable with minimal damage, but probably at the very limit of what you could reasonably expect from a stock vehicle. It is an expensive lesson, but hopefully it will be a learning experience that will make you a better wheeler in the future. Re-read some of the advice you have gotten here, it is years of invaluable knowledge all in one place.

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Old 12-31-2011, 03:30 PM   #50
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Just looking at this picture the water doesn't look that deep. You said the dealer previously worked on it and replaced the T-case. I wonder if all your breather tubes are in place. Did you check if your breather tubes are in place and how far they run up? If they are, I'm not sure how water got in your differential and transmission.

Did the dealer have any ideas how the water got into your differential and transmission?
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:34 PM   #51
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Just looking at this picture the water doesn't look that deep. You said the dealer previously worked on it and replaced the T-case. I wonder if all your breather tubes are in place. Did you check if your breather tubes are in place and how far they run up? If they are, I'm not sure how water got in your differential and transmission.

Did the dealer have any ideas how the water got into your differential and transmission?
Unfortunately I did not even know that there were breather tubes and wouldn't know where to look for them anyway. I love the outdoors and going off road has been (mostly) wonderful but I'll be the first to admit I don't know crap about cars. You need me to reprogram one and I might be able to help but the mechanical aspect I know very little about.

The repair guys and service manager at the dealership were not off roaders either. They saw the mud cake underneath and wrote on their little slip that it showed signs of submersion. You could tell from their tones that they flat out thought I was a liar about the amount of water I went though.

The second dealership has been better but I think their hands were kind of tied by what the folks at the first one wrote.

Based on the nature and number of problems I had already been having with this I am still fairly sure it was something more than just my inexperience that caused this however based on the comments here, I can no longer be certain. I was stuck after all which evidently is bad however I have seen Jeeps go through MUCH deeper water with no apparent harm. Unfortunately I think I'm probably just out a lot of money and even if jeeps are awesome off roaders I am still somewhat disenchanted at the moment.

For everyone else, I was not suggesting that an XTerra could go where a Jeep could go - just that I would not have the same expectations and therefore would not have traveled the way I did.
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:47 PM   #52
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Maybe after you got unstuck you cleaned and changed the fluids you would not have the problems you have now. But you probably just did nothing and hoped all would be fine. Everybody always laughs at me doing maintenance on my Jeep but it has never let me down and hopefully never will. However if it does I will not take it to the stealership to fix so they can rip me off. Good luck and the repair but $7000 is a expensive lesson.
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:53 PM   #53
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For everyone else, I was not suggesting that an XTerra could go where a Jeep could go - just that I would not have the same expectations and therefore would not have traveled the way I did.
Totally fair answer. Though, I have seen every commercial probably done and have never come away thinking it was indestructable or even capable of the mud hole you put it in without damage. But I think you are being honest when you literally say you got that impression. That sucks big that happened to you. I had an old renegade in HS that the shop teacher loved me for because I broke it constantly so he always had it in the classroom for his students to fix. I would have been screwed if I had had to pay for even one of those repairs. Not being able now to pay for a repair such as yours, I only do light trails and avoid mud holes like the plague. Plus like you, I know squat about mechanics. I've been laughed at here for my inability to change my own oil, so fixing something on the trail is impossible for me, LOL. I hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction and enjoy it for many years to come.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:08 PM   #54
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:43 PM   #55
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I agree with Greenrubi, I did route my breathers to my airbox and seal everything, but they were already at a much higher level than the water in that picture.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:56 PM   #56
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Let me also express how sorry I am you are experiencing this fiasco.... we can all relate our experiences but you're living the nightmare, I would be down on Chrysler right now also! That pic really doesn't look that bad, sure its deep but its not over the grilled even. It does look like a breather wasn't attached.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:59 PM   #57
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Here is a typical mud Jeep (NOT mine). He spends the week between outings getting it like this again.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:19 PM   #58
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What good old Dad taught me, and I have passed along to both my Jeep Wrangler Running kids....Don't go play with your "go to work" vehicle, have a back-up/go to plan of some sort; be it cash, another ride, good friends, family, etc
Good judgement generally comes from bad experience
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:25 AM   #59
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Save thousands and replace ur auto with a six speed
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:52 AM   #60
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Save thousands and replace ur auto with a six speed
Would love to but I needed something my wife could (would) drive too. For now auto is MUCH easier/safer with kids piled into the back anyway. I'll get a manual again when they aren't yelling and crying in their car seats anymore.

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