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Old 01-02-2012, 02:04 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Vtlaxsocr12 View Post
I just wanna talk from experience, I've also gone through a lot deeper water than that mud hole, and I have a JKR, and my stock breathing tubes are mounted a lot higher than that mud hole
I mean yeh, inexperience will come back to haunt you, but even if you were trying to get out of that hole for 15 minutes it shouldn't have flooded anything because your breathing tubes if connected correctly are higher than that
Same here with a '10 JKU Sport w/ auto trans. Tires were completely submerged. Motored through that puddle a good 10 times that day. Besides having about an inch of mud on my floors no water entered any of my driveline components. Drove it an hour and a half home as well. I did flush the fluids when I got home. Everything was in order. Guess I got lucky. I did not extend the breather tubes. That Jeep was gnarly for being stock. Only thing I ever damaged was the skid plate on the gas tank and it was wheeled a lot.

I'm suspecting the trans and TC were not sealed properly.

OP may want to learn how to wrench a bit. It's not hard. And pick your off-road battles on Sunday if you need it for work on Monday.

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Old 01-02-2012, 02:05 PM   #92
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Why are you so sure the problem was caused during the 15 minutes he was in the water? How do you know the dealer didn't forget to hook up the tube?
I don't. However he could have discovered that in about 30 seconds. The fact that he didn't thoughout any of this discussion pretty much rules that out. Think about this. No matter what happened, it actually did happen during those 15 minutes in the water.

All I'm saying is that I fully agree that you can easily ford water that is much deeper. Proper technique is needed. He charged into that water without first checking to see how deep it was, what was in it, and what the bttom was like. He admits to being inexperienced off road. This beagan as a way to help others avoid his fate.

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Old 01-02-2012, 02:10 PM   #93
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I really don't care because I would never drive into something like that without checking it out. Everyone is focused on the fact that the water isn't deep and they've gone through deeper. They are missing the fact that he didn't go through. Therefore something he did while stuck in there and spending 15 minutes trying to get out, caused the problem.
Any thoughts on what exactly that "something" might be, including cause/effect? Short of a jug of muddy water and a funnel, I'm lost. I've been in the same situation, stuck in the middle, too many times without any leakage into components.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:26 PM   #94
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Any thoughts on what exactly that "something" might be, including cause/effect? Short of a jug of muddy water and a funnel, I'm lost. I've been in the same situation, stuck in the middle, too many times without any leakage into components.
The heating and cooling, causing the breathers to suck in sounds the most plausible. I have heard of that happening before, especailly with an automatic transmission. They can heat up on the trail and the water could cause a quick cool down.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:47 PM   #95
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I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you are 25 years old or younger? All I can say is I am sympathizing with you and I have been there and done that (Not with a brand new vehicle) but I have spent a few nights stuck in a puddle or two.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:58 PM   #96
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The heating and cooling, causing the breathers to suck in sounds the most plausible. I have heard of that happening before, especailly with an automatic transmission. They can heat up on the trail and the water could cause a quick cool down.
This makes sense, but I also think there is a pretty good chance the tubes weren't connected properly before the OP ever hit the trail. Truth is we'll probably never really know and there's no way to prove it one way or the other.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:02 PM   #97
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With stories such as these, there are usually three sides to the story. The best thing is to educate people who could be in the same situation. Mainly never enter any obstacle without knowing what you're getting in to. The OP thought he was bulletproof because he was driving a Rubicon.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #98
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yeah i once thought an army humvee was bulletproof. turns out you can d*ck up the transfer case, cv joints, and transmissions on one of those with enough back and forth. in that case though, water didn't get into anything - i just broke 'em all the old-fashioned way.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:46 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by daggo66

I really don't care because I would never drive into something like that without checking it out. Everyone is focused on the fact that the water isn't deep and they've gone through deeper. They are missing the fact that he didn't go through. Therefore something he did while stuck in there and spending 15 minutes trying to get out, caused the problem.
Not missing, but for some reason ignoring. My money says if he goes straight through and doesn't get stuck for a long period he has no damage.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:48 PM   #100
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Not missing, but for some reason ignoring. My money says if he goes straight through and doesn't get stuck for a long period he has no damage.
Agreed.
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:10 PM   #101
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I'm not the authority on this but isn't getting submerged (either stuck or plowing through) still submerged? My point is how is it different if the breather tubes are submerged and you are moving through vs being stuck? The same heating/cooling happens regardless if you are moving or stuck and if the tubes are submerged they will begin to suck you're screwed anyway no?
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:25 PM   #102
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No. Submerged and moving has the ability to keep water out. Sitting in the pond allows water to seep into any seal. It's a metal machined surface with a rubber seal. It can take splashing, and the metal turning will keep water at bay. The T-case is not sealed on the back of the tranmssion. So, any water entering the T-case will end up in the transmission. Same for the rubber tubes on the diffs. Water that flows around them won't cause any leak. Sit in the pond and the water will get by it. And the water entry is complemented as daggo66 mentioned with cooling heated parts.



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Old 01-02-2012, 05:12 PM   #103
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Enjoyed reading this thread...

Fellow Jeepsters, I really have enjoyed reading this thread and my first thought after reading it all, is that the original problem was inexperience. No doubt this was brought up by several elequent posts. Other thoughts that came to mind were the initial problems with the transfer case and gears. There are a number of things that cause these problems and number one is the improper used of the 4x4 in low. These gears are for more of slow vehicle operations and are not very good in mud and situations like that. 4x4 High is the correct mode to be in. I have driven a stock AMC Cherokee 1987 with 4 people inside through something similar with the stock Goodyear tires and never had a problem. I had more of a problem crossing a set of rail road tracks (clearance). I made it through a lot longer and deeper hole by using techniques and not stopping and being patient. My ex-brother-in-law taught me alot and was riding in the back seat. He could not believe that I made it through and was amazed at the little problems that I did have getting through this trail. A number of well built lifted Fords and Chevy's had been stuck going where we travelled. So that being said, I have learned that you don't stop, you don't rock back and forth for a long time, and you cut your front wheels back and forth for traction, etc. Most of all was the very low gears. With poor traction with mud, you run the higher gears, because your jeep just wants to mountain goat. It will spin the tires till the cows come home and just burn up things and shift gears very hard with no load but the drive train, which causes things to break, over heat, suddenly cool off, etc. I was always taught to accelerate easily with the load and to not over rev the drive train. The engine will not break hardly ever in 4x4 low, but you will wear that drive train or break it. Jeeps are tools like tractors. In 4x4 low, a Rubicon will pull a plow. It is a seriously able vehicle. You just need to know and respect it. I almost bet that transfer case failure and replacement had some grounds in earlier although maybe unintentional abuse. Things do come with defects, although things that are machined, just don't normally fail without lack of maintenance. I hope the originator of this thread reads up and gets with some experienced off roaders and learns from this experience. It is a wonderful thing to be able to take a stock jeep and drive circles around these other 4 wheel drive vehicles. I have used mine to pull up bushes and small trees even...lol. Slow and easy. I hate to hear of a 7k repair estimate. Very expensive. I hate to hear more of the disenchantment about the jeep. I am on my 4th, a 2012 Rubicon. I will take it off road in due time. I like to drive it and break it in well before I take it off road, but I don't worry about getting places with it. My wife had a cow when I scratched the hard top on my last one...lol. 3 people in that ride...lol. I really think that water in the components were not as bad as the sand. I have lived in Florida and some of that stuff is like powder and very abrasive. Changing and flushing fluids is the way to go. Even with the transmission. It too could be saved with this by flushing it. Driving it about 100 miles and flushing it again and a new filter every time. Good luck with the jeep in the future and there are plenty of threads to read on off roading.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:10 PM   #104
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No. Submerged and moving has the ability to keep water out. Sitting in the pond allows water to seep into any seal. It's a metal machined surface with a rubber seal. It can take splashing, and the metal turning will keep water at bay. The T-case is not sealed on the back of the tranmssion. So, any water entering the T-case will end up in the transmission. Same for the rubber tubes on the diffs. Water that flows around them won't cause any leak. Sit in the pond and the water will get by it. And the water entry is complemented as daggo66 mentioned with cooling heated parts.



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So these seals won't keep water out but will keep oil in? Molecular weight difference? Molecule size?

By the way, I'm simply playing devil's advocate here.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:13 PM   #105
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Yawn....is this thread really still alive??
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:15 PM   #106
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Clamp front and rear diff junction points
silicone (black) front and rear diffs early and often (like voting in florida)
run breather tubes into airbox or engine compartment
visual before and after each mudding excursion

rules to live by -

I even put a snorkel on and sealed my airbox - sure its a little harder to replace the filter but I rest easier going through bogs and water.
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Old 01-03-2012, 01:16 AM   #107
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So, basically, here is a Jeep, here are videos of the wonderful things you can do with your Jeep, but if you ever do them, you are an idiot because it can't actually do what we claim?

What a ridiculous load of crap. I understand it can only be warrantied to a certain degree but Jeeps are SUPPOSED to do this. They post the video ON THEIR WEBSITE!!
Jeep - Trail Rated - Water Fording

Maybe I'm just an idiot and expected too much but if I bought a Lamborghini and wasn't warrantied if I went over 70 mph I'd be pissed too. If I am not allowed to take it off road then I should have bought a friggin smart car and live life like the rest of the world.
Unless you are going to file a very large lawsuit against Chrysler (which will cost you a heap more than $7000) unfortunately, this is on you. The Mitsubishi evo guys sued Mitsubishi, for false claims, as Mitsubishi voided the warranty if the car was ever used on a track....although they advertise it as a performance/track car, especially the MR.

What you are saying, is technically correct...they advertise it as this offroad machine, but if you use it as such, they will void your warranty. This is the unfortunate sideffect of this industry.

Good luck, deal with your insurance, and don't tell them you were offroad.
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:51 AM   #108
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So these seals won't keep water out but will keep oil in? Molecular weight difference? Molecule size?

By the way, I'm simply playing devil's advocate here.

Unless seals are SPECICALLY double seals; they only seal one direction.

Experience= that is what you get right after you need it the most!!
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:54 PM   #109
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Sorry you had the problems.

$7,000 seems very expensive.
Could it be done cheaper, maybe even getting the parts off a wrecked Jeep. For example, will the axles from an older Jeep work.

Some 4x4 vehicles like the Mercedes Unimog and some military vehicles use pressurizied drive components. Probably not practical but could this be done on a Jeep?
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #110
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Well, AMICA saved the day. They covered the damage without me having to lie or make up stories. The woman's comment was "They don't make em like they used to".

Here are some more pics for the people that thought I had street tires. No, the mud was just that thick and gooey.

My new Personalized plate is going to read "NoH2O"

IMG_0246 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0247 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0548 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Blackbird - I was in 4-high, eased my way in until I was comfortable that it leveled out and was not getting deeper, never gunned it but accelerated slowly. When I could not progress forward I certainly did try turning the wheels sharply to gain some traction. When none of that worked I tried 4-lo and the lockers but they were too little, too late.
I then took out my Chinese made come along and proceeded to manually winch my way out. unfortunately, although the cable may have been rated at 12K lbs, the welds were not and it broke. The guy that finally pulled me out with his big a$$ truck told me that he's pulled at least 7 other vehicles out of that same hole. It's very deceiving and in an area so highly traveled you'd think you would be fine.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:45 PM   #111
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Congratulation's, it seems to me you were a good sport through all of this, glad it worked out for you.
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:54 PM   #112
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Congratulations! Hopefully this experience won't scare you away from wheeling. Maybe it'll scare you away from deep mud tho. I'm glad it for fixed under insurance
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:02 PM   #113
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I imagine I will keep on wheeling but I am a bit 'gun shy' to say the least and still disenchanted with Jeep over all. Oddly enough Chrysler sent me a survey today asking how satisfied I was with my vehicle and my recent service. lol

As it turns out I did NOT need the new sway bar disconnect which dealership #1 said I did so that saved about $2k on the repair bill.

I do also have a Shrockworks bumper ordered so I have somewhere to mount the new winch I got for Christmas

Now if only I had something more than muck and water to go wheeling in...

Oh - dealership #1's advice - if I want to keep doing that I should put on a 3" lift and a snorkel.
Reassuring that there are people out there who know even less than I do.
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:04 PM   #114
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Oh - dealership #1's advice - if I want to keep doing that I should put on a 3" lift and a snorkel.
Reassuring that there are people out there who know even less than I do.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:56 PM   #115
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So your insurance is going to cover everything? Wow....what did you tell them happened and did they even inquire as to how your jeep was broken?
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:00 AM   #116
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An Xterra wouldn't have made it there to begin with, and if it had you'd be in the same position.

Breather tubes are stock, though you may have yanked them loose.

Dealers hardly ever know what they're talking about.

The point is that offroading is a full fledged hobby. If you decided to go mountain climbing, would you really think all you needed was a high end pair of shoes and a some rope? Do you believe avid cyclists just buy a high end bike and that's all there is to it? My wife does triathlons, and I can tell you there's a lot more to bike performance than a fancy bike--they need repairs, maintenance, mods, etc. That's on top of the $2k bike. How about guys who speed race their cars--you think they just roll off the lot and that's it?

Believe me, your Rubi can go places no other widely available commercial vehicle in this country can. But that pic you posted is a serious bit of mudding. Like any piece of high end performance equipment, if you want your Rubi to routinely perform at that level it's going to have to be maintained, prepped, adjusted, maybe modded, etc. On top of that, you're going to need to refine your technique.

Think about offroading as a sport, like cycling. What you've done is buy the best "bike" on the market. But that doesn't mean that you're going to dust Lance Armstrong. You've got a lot of learning to do, both in terms of technique and equipment performance/maintenance.

Stick around here and hook up with a local wheeling group. Much to learn, young Jedi.
Excellent description, but to say young Jedi you tarnish the Jedi, he is no Jedi.

Think of it as a lesson learned, you won't win all your battles in life so use common sense & be thankful you were attacked by a grizzly bear when you thought it would be fun to go for dip.better suited for mud truck or a air boat.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:19 AM   #117
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Zombie thread, back from the dead!
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:09 PM   #118
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Great to hear. You can keep muddin' and offroading, just take the necessary precautions. Extend all your breathers to the highest possible point.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:15 AM   #119
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Somthing most people are missing here is there is no tranny vent hose it is a hole in the middle of the front pump assembly (4in above the shaft) if you don't get stuck or set in the water for more the a minute or so you are probly ok but if you set the inspection plate at the bottom front of your bell housing is not sealed water will get in not fast but fast enough if your in it to long. I have a TJ Sport (4" sus lift with 35" BFG M/T )and I made the same mistake blew the seal on the front pump. Parts cost about $180.00 and the repair will take a weekend or two but lesson learned. Check it or wreck it you call lol.

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