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Old 06-29-2011, 12:05 AM   #1471
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sissy bars? Aren't those the bars that went onto the back of a bike when we were 6 years old? Bill, are you trying to find your youth? Remember, it's a state of mind..
"Sissy bars" is what we used to call "Oh $h!T" handles, grab handles/bars. You know, those things your passenger grabs just after you announce, "watch this!"

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Old 06-29-2011, 12:10 AM   #1472
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Ya know..theres always an Earl Schibe paint job for $199.99 if the pressure builds too great. I wonder if he is still in business. I seem to recall at one point it was $49.99 or less for a repaint.
I remember his commercials when I lived in Long Beach years ago back when I was in the Navy. LA had some of the best commercials, especially car dealership commercial. I remember the one that had all the animals in his. So stupid but funny.

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Old 06-29-2011, 12:15 AM   #1473
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Been following this thread for awhile now... and this is where I learned about TL.
I've called around my area to see who was cool with TL. One dealer said No Problem... but said there was a $75 fee for participating in the program. I emailed him back and asked where exactly did this come from. Still waiting to hear back. Anyone heard of this or is this just a weak attempt at trying to recover some loss from an informed consumer?
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:18 AM   #1474
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Originally Posted by spartacus_33 View Post
Been following this thread for awhile now... and this is where I learned about TL.
I've called around my area to see who was cool with TL. One dealer said No Problem... but said there was a $75 fee for participating in the program. I emailed him back and asked where exactly did this come from. Still waiting to hear back. Anyone heard of this or is this just a weak attempt at trying to recover some loss from an informed consumer?
When you get your TL info you'll see that it states that you have to pay a $75 fee. However, I believe Pat has said that the dealer should not charge you both the $75 and the Doc fee. If you put it to them like that, they'll choose the doc fee and not the $75.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:23 AM   #1475
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Originally Posted by spartacus_33 View Post
Been following this thread for awhile now... and this is where I learned about TL.
I've called around my area to see who was cool with TL. One dealer said No Problem... but said there was a $75 fee for participating in the program. I emailed him back and asked where exactly did this come from. Still waiting to hear back. Anyone heard of this or is this just a weak attempt at trying to recover some loss from an informed consumer?

Pat@FieldsJeep has posted the best answer on this a few pages back:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post1328925
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:25 AM   #1476
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You shouldn't have to register through the dealer for TL. Should be able to register directly from TL's website. It is only $60 for 3 years to become a member directly from the website. You have to get the 3 years to get a Jeep discount. Sounds to me like the dealer is trying to make $15 off the membership

http://www.treadlightly.org/page.php...al-Memberships
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:36 AM   #1477
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When you get your TL info you'll see that it states that you have to pay a $75 fee. However, I believe Pat has said that the dealer should not charge you both the $75 and the Doc fee. If you put it to them like that, they'll choose the doc fee and not the $75.
Got here a little late.... but from everything I've read the membership cost is $60, through the TL web site. I expected to pay that. I was thinking the the $75 fee was just some made up BS fee.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:41 AM   #1478
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Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill View Post
Pat@FieldsJeep has posted the best answer on this a few pages back:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post1328925
Like I said, I've been lurking here for quite some time (I've read every post... over the past couple of weeks) and I am aware of Pat and his answer about doc fees. I've actually been thinking of some way to take advantage of Pat's -2% under invoice deal... without blowing the savings by traveling from the NW back to the Windy City. Seems like there was another straight shooter from the San Diego area?
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:53 AM   #1479
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Originally Posted by spartacus_33 View Post
Got here a little late.... but from everything I've read the membership cost is $60, through the TL web site. I expected to pay that. I was thinking the the $75 fee was just some made up BS fee.
The $75 fee has nothing to do with TL. It's an administrative fee charged by Chrysler for their Affiliate Rewards program, which you are eligible for if you work for various Chrysler affiliated companies, belong to participating Credit Unions, or are a 3 year member of Tread Lightly.

The fee is already included in the affiliate pricing shown on the factory invoice - abbreviated "PP" (not "EP"= employee pricing.)

Your dealer cannot charge that fee again, but they can and should waive the fee if they charge you a DOC fee.

I think that's right. But, I'll be corrected in a hurry if not.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:54 AM   #1480
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Originally Posted by spartacus_33 View Post
Got here a little late.... but from everything I've read the membership cost is $60, through the TL web site. I expected to pay that. I was thinking the the $75 fee was just some made up BS fee.
Nope. It's right there on the papers you receive from TL after you've paid $60. However, the $75 is already built into the Preferred Price that the dealer will show you on the invoice. The example from Pat that UHB linked to is very useful.

At the end of the day, your most likely scenario is this (if you can get to the -2%)

(Invoice*.98)*salestax + docfee (or $75 TL fee) + tags/title/registration

That should be it. Good Luck
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:03 AM   #1481
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The $75 fee has nothing to do with TL. It's an administrative fee charged by Chrysler for their Affiliate Rewards program, which you are eligible for if you work for various Chrysler affiliated companies, belong to participating Credit Unions, or are a 3 year member of Tread Lightly.

The fee is already included in the affiliate pricing shown on the factory invoice - abbreviated "PP" (not "EP"= employee pricing.)

Your dealer cannot chage that fee again, but they can and should waive the fee if they charge you a DOC fee.

I think that's right. But, I'll be corrected in a hurry if not.
I believe this is correct. However, anyone getting a -2% deal will not be working off of the PP directly. So it gets more complicated, but not much more.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:03 AM   #1482
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At the end of the day, your most likely scenario is this (if you can get to the -2%)

(Invoice*.98)*salestax + docfee (or $75 TL fee) + tags/title/registration

(Invoice*.98)*(1+salestax rate) + docfee (or $75 TL fee) + tags/title/registration

Fixed it.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:08 AM   #1483
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(Invoice*.98)*(1+salestax rate) + docfee (or $75 TL fee) + tags/title/registration

Fixed it.
Thanks. That would have made for a nice price though!
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:09 AM   #1484
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Like I said, I've been lurking here for quite some time (I've read every post... over the past couple of weeks) and I am aware of Pat and his answer about doc fees. I've actually been thinking of some way to take advantage of Pat's -2% under invoice deal... without blowing the savings by traveling from the NW back to the Windy City. Seems like there was another straight shooter from the San Diego area?
That would be "Jack powell" jeep, in Escondido, CA.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:13 AM   #1485
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The $75 fee has nothing to do with TL. It's an administrative fee charged by Chrysler for their Affiliate Rewards program, which you are eligible for if you work for various Chrysler affiliated companies, belong to participating Credit Unions, or are a 3 year member of Tread Lightly.
Still a little confused here. It sounds like they aren't supposed to charge for both ($75 admin fee + $75 doc fee)... but you WILL get charged for one of them in the end?

ndrugby: you say the "prefered price" has the doc fee built in. Is the prefered price the -1% under invoice price?

Are you saying that if/when I join TL... the admin fee should be waived?
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:21 AM   #1486
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Still a little confused here. It sounds like they aren't supposed to charge for both ($75 admin fee + $75 doc fee)... but you WILL get charged for one of them in the end?

ndrugby: you say the "prefered price" has the doc fee built in. Is the prefered price the -1% under invoice price?

Are you saying that if/when I join TL... the admin fee should be waived?
OK, here goes my attempt to make this work. I'll use an example. Hope it clears it up.

You've already sent $60 to treadlightly

You want to buy a Wrangler with an invoice price of $30,000

Invoice -1% = $29,700

On the invoice record from the dealer there will be a preferred price marked PP:. That price will read $29,775 (or invoice - 1% + a $75 admin fee).

What we are saying is, the dealer SHOULD either sell you the car for

$29,775 + title/tag/registration + tax

or for

$29,700 + doc fee + title/tag/registration + tax

but NOT (although it is completely ok for them to sell it for this price)

$29,775 + doc fee + title/tag/registration + tax


If you negotiate a deal of -2% invoice, you can adjust the numbers accordingly (lower all $s above by $300)
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:00 AM   #1487
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OK, here goes my attempt to make this work. I'll use an example. Hope it clears it up.

You've already sent $60 to treadlightly

You want to buy a Wrangler with an invoice price of $30,000

Invoice -1% = $29,700

On the invoice record from the dealer there will be a preferred price marked PP:. That price will read $29,775 (or invoice - 1% + a $75 admin fee).

What we are saying is, the dealer SHOULD either sell you the car for

$29,775 + title/tag/registration + tax

or for

$29,700 + doc fee + title/tag/registration + tax

but NOT (although it is completely ok for them to sell it for this price)

$29,775 + doc fee + title/tag/registration + tax


If you negotiate a deal of -2% invoice, you can adjust the numbers accordingly (lower all $s above by $300)
Got it... Thanks!
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:08 AM   #1488
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I don't know why but I'm inclined to believe that the 2012 Wrangler will look different from the 2011's. I mean they're putting a new engine in there and to distinguish the 12's from the 2011's they may change it so that the masses can easily identify.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:45 AM   #1489
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I don't know why but I'm inclined to believe that the 2012 Wrangler will look different from the 2011's. I mean they're putting a new engine in there and to distinguish the 12's from the 2011's they may change it so that the masses can easily identify.
Why would they need to distinguish it? There's no way to distinguish whether a TJ has a 2.5 or a 4.0. The "masses" are going to have no clue the engine is different and most won't care.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #1490
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I remember his commercials when I lived in Long Beach years ago back when I was in the Navy. LA had some of the best commercials, especially car dealership commercial. I remember the one that had all the animals in his. So stupid but funny.
That would be Cal Worthington (and his "dog" Spot). The jingle was "If you want a better deal, go see Cal, If you want a better deal go sell Cal. He'll stand up on his head until his ears are turning red, if you want a better deal go see Cal." At one time or another, "Spot" was an elephant, a giraffe, a Tiger/leopard, a Monkey and a host of other exotic animals. He even got attacked by a few of them over the years. What a throwback!
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:56 AM   #1491
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Got my D-1 and VIN last Friday. Today, Mopar door sill guards arrived; Bestop under-seat lock box scheduled to be delivered tomorrow; Thursday, locking lug nuts (for spare) are due.... By the time the JKU arrives, I'll have a shed full of "bolt-ons"... but, I think I'll still be relatively sane!
Are you sure the under-seat lock boxes fit the '11-'12 JK's? I recall reading somewhere that the mounting configuration is slightly different than earlier models due to the interior changes.

BTW...congrats on the new Jeep. I'll be ordering mine soon!
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:58 AM   #1492
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Are you sure the under-seat lock boxes fit the '11-'12 JK's? I recall reading somewhere that the mounting configuration is slightly different than earlier models due to the interior changes.

BTW...congrats on the new Jeep. I'll be ordering mine soon!
It will fit the 11 if you remove the bracket and move some wires out of the way. There's no way of knowing if anything changed on the 12 in that area, but it shouldn't be a drastic change.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:17 AM   #1493
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Why would they need to distinguish it? There's no way to distinguish whether a TJ has a 2.5 or a 4.0. The "masses" are going to have no clue the engine is different and most won't care.
Well it just seems like all the vehicles that received this engine got a slight makeover as well. The current JK has been out since '07 and hasn't changed at all but the new engine which is a major upgrade deserves a makeover. Willing to put a friendly wager on it? I say it will look different from the 2011's. Or it will be easily distinguished. Kind of like the new GC vs the old or the new Charger vs the old.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:29 AM   #1494
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I thought some folks mentioned pricing a couple of pages ago... any updates guys?
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:29 AM   #1495
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I also don't expect any significant changes to the body of the Wrangler.Matter of fact,I believe there are'nt(is that a word?) going to be any except my new Rubicon is going to have painted wheel fenders.(i'm not a big fan of that ,but I have a feeling its going to come with them painted.) Its OK

I told my Dealership,no leather, I didn't say no painted wheel fenders, I don't want to try to change it,because they get so overwhelmed so easy.

AJ
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:47 AM   #1496
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Well it just seems like all the vehicles that received this engine got a slight makeover as well. The current JK has been out since '07 and hasn't changed at all but the new engine which is a major upgrade deserves a makeover. Willing to put a friendly wager on it? I say it will look different from the 2011's. Or it will be easily distinguished. Kind of like the new GC vs the old or the new Charger vs the old.
The others were "due" for the change or a "refresh". Typically Wranglers are on a 10 year model run. There have been many changes since the 07. Most recently was a completely new interior for the 11's. That was a much more visible change than the new engine and there is no outward way to distinguish it. Rumor also has it that there were some slight changes to the engine bay and firewall in the 11 to prepare for the 3.6 so based on that I would love to accept any wager you want.

I can spot the model years of the JK for the most part. 09's got the tow hook on the side. 10's changed from X to Sport. Many 07's don't have tow hooks or fogs.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:54 AM   #1497
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I also don't expect any significant changes to the body of the Wrangler.Matter of fact,I believe there are'nt(is that a word?) going to be any except my new Rubicon is going to have painted wheel fenders.(i'm not a big fan of that ,but I have a feeling its going to come with them painted.) Its OK

I told my Dealership,no leather, I didn't say no painted wheel fenders, I don't want to try to change it,because they get so overwhelmed so easy.

AJ
Aren't is a word. Are'nt isn't . Before we wager we should define makeover. When I say makeover I mean anything on the outside (or inside) that makes it different from the last model. For this purpose we'll leave it to the exterior since that's the first thing you'll see. So different lights, wheel design, body panels or anything on stock comparable models that can be easily identified.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:56 AM   #1498
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Aren't is a word. Are'nt isn't . Before we wager we should define makeover. When I say makeover I mean anything on the outside (or inside) that makes it different from the last model. For this purpose we'll leave it to the exterior since that's the first thing you'll see. So different lights, wheel design, body panels or anything on stock comparable models that can be easily identified.
Agreed.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:58 AM   #1499
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Originally Posted by RaiderRUBICON
I also don't expect any significant changes to the body of the Wrangler.Matter of fact,I believe there are'nt(is that a word?) going to be any except my new Rubicon is going to have painted wheel fenders.(i'm not a big fan of that ,but I have a feeling its going to come with them painted.) Its OK

I told my Dealership,no leather, I didn't say no painted wheel fenders, I don't want to try to change it,because they get so overwhelmed so easy.

AJ
Painted fenders are still optional on the Rubi, right?

As for the distinguished appearence in celebration of the awe-unspiring engine, Jeep may simply do what Jeep does best.

Decals (wait, that's only when the DON'T change anything )!
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:01 AM   #1500
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D-1 Status as of this morning!!


Anyone know if 1st run allocation motors are being assembled in a U.S. or Mexico plant? (hopefully in USA!)


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