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Old 07-06-2011, 12:05 AM   #2101
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Originally Posted by fan of fanboys View Post
I have soft top tj and agree that it is def adequate. But my wife wants hard bc it will be primary family car and we will prolly own 10-12 years. Those kind of people.

Never dealt with hard top. Is that something I can remove myself? Or the two of us? Are you saying I need a lift to take off?

I have garage to store in. We don't park there and I keep my boat somewhere else. With the new 3 piece hard top don't I just remove panels? I have no experience at all with them so appreciate patience answering my questions.
A happy wife is a happy life. You remove two panels, but the bulk of the top remains and the things weighs around 95 pounds I believe. If you have a garage and the room, you may want to consider a lift. Or at least a cart to put it on once you remove it. Two people can remove fairly easily. If it were me, I would build my own lift, with a motor (there is an awesome 440lb one from harbor freight on sale with a coupon you can find online for 49.99!).

Google: "Hardtop hoist/storage write-up" and you'll find a ton of info on building your own if you care to do so. If not, try this product (although it gets mixed reviews on quality).

Lange Originals Power Hoist-a-Top™ for 07-11 Jeep® Wrangler JK 2 Door with 3 Piece Freedom Top™ - Quadratec

Or look for Harken Hoist-a-top for a manual product that some like.

And for an idea on carts, check this out (you can also google jeep hardtop cart plans to find plans for building your own I believe):

Bestop 42805-01 - Bestop HOSS™ Hardtop & Door Carrier Combo* for 07-11 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

There are many others. Point is, you want a way to store this thing, and if you can get a way to remove it and put it on easily, that's good too...

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Old 07-06-2011, 12:12 AM   #2102
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Originally Posted by DOMINUS View Post
Allow me guys. I like the good ole locker vs LSD debate. In snow 4x4 is already ahead of the game. It's better than FWD and RWD. I even like 4x4 over AWD because you don't need all wheels working all the time. The LSD in the Jeep is only on the rear axle I believe so the front is still up to its own vices. With proper tires like blizzaks, the Sport would handle most conditions save for those that require studs which aren't legal everywhere or chains. The Sahara with the LSD will also get you through pretty much anything but the LSD enhances the open diff setup by transferring power from left to right as needed. If you're not going to off-road and will mostly be on-road with an occasional off-road stint then get the Sahara and save a few grand for other mods.

Lockers are really meant for off-road and that's the God honest truth. Or more specifically when you need all the traction possible because one or more wheels are without traction. Ever see any videos on ABS in gravel or sand? Its horrible but on a clean dry tarmac it's a dream and a life saver.

In conclusion open diffs are good for normal driving and snow in 4H. LSD is better than open diffs in both aspects but lockers are only for off-road applications. You can't drive with lockers on safely at speed. I believe there's a speed limit with lockers too. Once you get out of the snow with lockers (which may not be needed at all) you just put it back in 4H and continue on. The ultimate setup will be a Jeep that has both LSD and lockers. 2H and 4H uses LSD and 4L uses lockers.
Hi

All JK Wrangler from 2007 and forward have Traction Control (BLD) and it would be intresting with a test how much better it would be with adding LSD on that.

On other vehicles adding LSD will probably give major improvement if they do not also have BLD.

"BLD does not care how fast the wheels are turning, just that they are turning at the same speed. It provides improved traction capability similar to a locking differential"

"A Jeep vehicle with BLD will negotiate almost any obstacle or driving situation that a similar vehicle with locking differential will. BLD does require a change in driving style and more torque to negotiate the obstacle."

Chrysler Blog - Jeep Brake Traction Control Explained

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Old 07-06-2011, 12:30 AM   #2103
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Originally Posted by fan of fanboys View Post
I post on about forums, this the only automotive one, but this is by far the most sensitive. I know it's private but it's man surprising how tender people on here are. I got warned once bc I said I don't like fat people who are 600lbs using my stuff.
End rant.

Question: I have not seem anyone mention ordering dual top option. Is that not popular? Bc my wife wants the soft top in summer and hard top in winter. Any opinions on dual top set up?
I think several of us on early all had military backgrounds and appreciate civility. It's nothing more than that.

I ordered dual tops for that very reason. It only rains this area Dec/Jan/Feb usually and then very little. On the other side I want the hard top when I go into Mexico. I haven't had a convertible since a fiat 850 spyder many years ago. I always loved the top down.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:37 AM   #2104
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Originally Posted by sandbaja View Post
I think several of us on early all had military backgrounds and appreciate civility. It's nothing more than that.
Even us non-military guys appreciate civility

Plus, when these things deteriorate into name calling or just plain old constant moaning, it's really no good for anyone. It's not so much people being too sensitive, as much as, why let something that's detrimental to the experience continue? I think the mods have been excellent at nipping things in the bud before they ruin things for everyone. Just my $.02.

Anyway, on that thing I PM'ed you about, it's up and running. Let's see how it does. I may send you one more email as a test, but after that it's on....

Are our 2012 Wranglers here yet?
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:42 AM   #2105
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Originally Posted by ndrugby

A happy wife is a happy life. You remove two panels, but the bulk of the top remains and the things weighs around 95 pounds I believe. If you have a garage and the room, you may want to consider a lift. Or at least a cart to put it on once you remove it. Two people can remove fairly easily. If it were me, I would build my own lift, with a motor (there is an awesome 440lb one from harbor freight on sale with a coupon you can find online for 49.99!).

Google: "Hardtop hoist/storage write-up" and you'll find a ton of info on building your own if you care to do so. If not, try this product (although it gets mixed reviews on quality).

Lange Originals Power Hoist-a-Top™ for 07-11 Jeep® Wrangler JK 2 Door with 3 Piece Freedom Top™ - Quadratec

Or look for Harken Hoist-a-top for a manual product that some like.

And for an idea on carts, check this out (you can also google jeep hardtop cart plans to find plans for building your own I believe):

Bestop 42805-01 - Bestop HOSS™ Hardtop & Door Carrier Combo* for 07-11 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

There are many others. Point is, you want a way to store this thing, and if you can get a way to remove it and put it on easily, that's good too...
You are the man. I reckon you answer 30% of questions I post anywhere on this site. Dunno what you do for a living but if it doesn't equal a paycheck from Jeep it should.

Will take all that into consideration. Thanks.
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:40 AM   #2106
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Originally Posted by sandbaja
I think several of us on early all had military backgrounds and appreciate civility. It's nothing more than that.

I ordered dual tops for that very reason. It only rains this area Dec/Jan/Feb usually and then very little. On the other side I want the hard top when I go into Mexico. I haven't had a convertible since a fiat 850 spyder many years ago. I always loved the top down.
I love the knowledge I get from this site. Reason it's only jeep site I'm on. And I'm not aiming to offend anyone and I'm all for civility. I just feel extra sensitive. Like no dissension allowed. And I feel a remark that is pro republican is allowed but anything interpreted as liberal gets cracked down faster. I'm not leaving bc of it. Just observation.

I'm thinking wife will keep hard top on 7-8 months out year and soft top remainder. My son almost two and loves my jeep and prefers over her Murano. Outdoor little man. "daddy red heep" he says.

Just gotta take what rugby said about lift and cart into consideration.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:37 AM   #2107
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Are you sure you want that low gearing? The new, 5-speed tranny has much lower gears than the old, 4-speed.

If my calculations are correct, (please, correct me if I'm wrong... there's a good chance I am) the 3.73 axle will give 1st through 4th gear ratios nearly equivalent to 5.13's with the old tranny!

Attachment 56747
Nope, not sure, lol! Thanks for the info though! I've been driving an '04 Tahoe Z71 with the 3.73...husband already informed me it's a completely different animal! I do much more daily driving than anything else, but I do want something that I can totally use when I hit the 4x4 roads in the Rockies of Colorado. So much fun! Of course, there IS the cool factor too. So, it's probably not worth paying any more or fretting over the 4.10, I was just expecting it to be standard on the Rubicon like before.

Yes, girl here, I'm wordy, sorry. Thanks again for all the good info & I appreciate the civility here!! I've been able to read almost the whole entire thing and learn from you guys and laugh a bit too without being disgusted, haha! Oh...also...y'all have it right when you say "a happy wife is a happy life"!! I don't usually want much, and I certainly have always wanted him to have any vehicle he ever wanted, but now that my three sons are all grown up and I have the freedom to get what I want...and I am still a young 41 , haha, its time for a little fun!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:48 AM   #2108
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Have they released the official specs, mpg and price sheets yet for this vehicle?? I have never seen the like of this before...
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:02 AM   #2109
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Originally Posted by ndrugby

It looks like on the Auto, 4.1 is meant to be an option, BUT the system is not allowing it to be selected. So if you go tomorrow and the dealer can't select 4.1 (he'll get a pop up right after selecting the automatic package), then you won't be able to get 4.1.
FYI, there wasn't a popup when auto was selected yesterday.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:18 AM   #2110
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Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill View Post
Are you sure you want that low gearing? The new, 5-speed tranny has much lower gears than the old, 4-speed.

If my calculations are correct, (please, correct me if I'm wrong... there's a good chance I am) the 3.73 axle will give 1st through 4th gear ratios nearly equivalent to 5.13's with the old tranny!

Attachment 56747
Bill, thanks for doing the math on this. Though this wasn't directed it me personally, I appreciate the questioning of intentions nonetheless. I've given pause to think this through based on your questions, and I'm certain others have as well.

I want the low gears and the auto; I've asked about it in this thread already. I'm working closely with a local dealer, who is having trouble getting in touch with the area DM to find out why it cannot be ordered. As of yesterday the popup warning was gone, but there was still no way to order the 4.10's with the auto.

I'm surprised there isn't more fervor about this issue. I would think anyone who plans on a mild increase in tires, say 33's, would want the gears, as well as someone who counts on their rig to tow anything with some weight. I personally tow a 3300# boat and the added grunt from the gears appeals to me. Better acceleration is also a welcome benefit. Fuel mileage is of no consequence to me as the basic shape and weight of the JKU limits the upper end of economy (plus my Jetta TDI is daily driven). My current Rubi JKU suffers from a horrible set of gearing in the auto, and the only way I will order a new one is with low enough gearing to do the job. Further, changing gears is a $1000-$1200 proposition, which is money that could be saved if the factory gets their act together and allows for ordering and warranty from the get go.

It seems odd to me that a company can offer a product for sale to the public and not have an easy way to understand the options and order them. The confusion about the gearing and the towing packages alone illuminates a basic failure of internal communications between engineering, construction, and sales. I'm told by several dealers in my area that this is not uncommon with Jeep, and they will often release new updates to the ordering system every couple of days with every new model year launch. It just seems there could be more precision in this area.

Though I am working with a local dealer who will inform me of any changes soon after they happen, does anyone know with certainty when the 4.10 option with the auto trans will be able to be ordered?
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:19 AM   #2111
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FYI, there wasn't a popup when auto was selected yesterday.
Yay!!! Like I said, I have a feeling (here in West Texas anyway) that I'll know more than them when I go in this morning thanks to this forum. Oh...one more thing...THANK YOU for mentioning the tread lightly discount!!! Another bit of info that y'all have passed on that will really save me money! (Dealer finance mgr. didn't know about it either!)
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:20 AM   #2112
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FYI, there wasn't a popup when auto was selected yesterday.
Thanks. This corroborates my dealers reports to me. There was also no way to order the 4.10's despite the lack of popup is the report I got.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:49 AM   #2113
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Thousand Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Milous View Post
Base MSRP/Invoice pricing for CANADA has been added to the 2012 information thread:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post1355276
Thousand Thanks Milous! You're "da man"!
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:41 AM   #2114
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Originally Posted by fan of fanboys

You are the man. I reckon you answer 30% of questions I post anywhere on this site. Dunno what you do for a living but if it doesn't equal a paycheck from Jeep it should.

Will take all that into consideration. Thanks.
I don't get a paycheck from Jeep...yet

I've just been excited about getting this vehicle and doing a lot of research, so I figured once I learned all that stuff from others, I might as well share the knowledge or at least the location of the info. Hopefully it helps at least one person make a more informed decision.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:53 AM   #2115
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For anyone interested in gear ratio calculator, I found one here that allows side by side comparison of chosen options. This also calculates more than ratios as well. Here is the link:Gear Ratio Calculator. I like it as you can change tire sizes and such to see what the differences are.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:59 AM   #2116
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Thanks. This corroborates my dealers reports to me. There was also no way to order the 4.10's despite the lack of popup is the report I got.
That's true. 4.10 was not listed as an option. In fact there was no mention of ratios on the order screens I saw. The dealer ASSUMED that 4.10 was the right answer based on 2011.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:59 AM   #2117
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Last week on Monday I ordered, and Wednesday last week I had D1.

Wednesday...nice. Looks like I now have something to do today.

PS...that seems really fast. I ordered on 6/27, went to D on 7/1, and now am hoping for D1 this Friday (or maybe today.) Where is that MYVIN link anyway...
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:01 AM   #2118
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Originally Posted by ndrugby View Post
Even us non-military guys appreciate civility

Plus, when these things deteriorate into name calling or just plain old constant moaning, it's really no good for anyone. It's not so much people being too sensitive, as much as, why let something that's detrimental to the experience continue? I think the mods have been excellent at nipping things in the bud before they ruin things for everyone. Just my $.02.

Anyway, on that thing I PM'ed you about, it's up and running. Let's see how it does. I may send you one more email as a test, but after that it's on....'

Are our 2012 Wranglers here yet?
I can't wait until manufacturing starts and the emails pop in. Good thing I have work to distract me.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:02 AM   #2119
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Originally Posted by Boilermaker52

FYI, there wasn't a popup when auto was selected yesterday.
Interesting. That's different. Last week I think someone posted a picture of it. Maybe they'll change their minds and make all Rubicons 4.1 as they should be!

I'm not a gear head, but I would still think that a 6 speed manual should give you better performance with specific axle gears than a 5 speed auto with same gears. Is that right? Or is this more complicated than that?

If so, then why make this an option on Auto but not on manual. Just wondering.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:06 AM   #2120
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Originally Posted by mpr131

Wednesday...nice. Looks like I now have something to do today.

PS...that seems really fast. I ordered on 6/27, went to D on 7/1, and now am hoping for D1 this Friday (or maybe today.) Where is that MYVIN link anyway...
Replace MYVIN with your VIN once you're D1

http://insightnl.extra.chrysler.com/..._SEARCH_BY=VIN
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:11 AM   #2121
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Has anyone else noted that the more liberal states charge higher taxes? NY, WA, CA and ?
True, but also note that the states you mentioned are some of the most populous... At least two of the largest cities are in those states (NYC, LA). Also those states appear to be nerve centers for major industries... NY has Financial; WA has manufacturing and IT; CA has IT, film, porn, etc.

I'm not saying higher taxes drove those industries... but maybe the taxes are needed to support the vast number of people living in those states.

---EDIT---
Just realized this discussion was closed. My bad.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:13 AM   #2122
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Did they up the towing capacity any as a result of the more powerful engine?
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Originally Posted by AgtSunshine View Post
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Originally Posted by fan of fanboys View Post
I'm looking from phone so sure I missed but in 2nd post I see tires. Do you know what towing capacity will be on 2012 4 door?
Was searching the forum for towing capacity and found these posts but they were unanswered. Does anyone know (or think) towing capacity will be increased with the new engine? I'm also thinking about upgrading the mini camper so this has been on my mind.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:25 AM   #2123
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Per Milous, towing will remain unchanged in 2012 (2000/3500)
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:32 AM   #2124
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Replace MYVIN with your VIN once you're D1

http://insightnl.extra.chrysler.com/..._SEARCH_BY=VIN
You are a true scholar.

I've been hitting refresh about 10 times daily since I went to D. C'mon D1!!!!
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:34 AM   #2125
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Per Milous, towing will remain unchanged in 2012 (2000/3500)
Thanks. Embarrassed I missed this one.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:44 AM   #2126
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Was searching the forum for towing capacity and found these posts but they were unanswered. Does anyone know (or think) towing capacity will be increased with the new engine? I'm also thinking about upgrading the mini camper so this has been on my mind.
HP isn't the issue, wheelbase is.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:47 AM   #2127
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Originally Posted by Omar Brannstrom

Hi

All JK Wrangler from 2007 and forward have Traction Control (BLD) and it would be intresting with a test how much better it would be with adding LSD on that.

On other vehicles adding LSD will probably give major improvement if they do not also have BLD.

"BLD does not care how fast the wheels are turning, just that they are turning at the same speed. It provides improved traction capability similar to a locking differential"

"A Jeep vehicle with BLD will negotiate almost any obstacle or driving situation that a similar vehicle with locking differential will. BLD does require a change in driving style and more torque to negotiate the obstacle."

Chrysler Blog - Jeep Brake Traction Control Explained

Best regards from Sweden

Omar Brännström
Thanks for the link. That explains it even better than I can. It still says that lockers are the most ideal and the BLD tries to act like lockers. Still a good option if you didn't order lockers from the start.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:50 AM   #2128
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My order date was 6/10/11 and I went into D1 on the 24th like many others so about 2 weeks for me.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:50 AM   #2129
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Thanks for the link. That explains it even better than I can. It still says that lockers are the most ideal and the BLD tries to act like lockers. Still a good option if you didn't order lockers from the start.
You have BLD even with lockers. Remember you can only use the Rubicon's lockers in 4L.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:57 AM   #2130
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Damarpaint based on the article posted above on BLD you can have both systems in the Rubicon. The BLD is equipped on all JK/JKU and you get the lockers with the Rubicon. With the better resale value problem solved.

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