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Old 10-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #61
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I DONT KNOW if there is a real problem here mine works as i thought it would,i just know if you are hanging on the shifter a pull it to the left will make it down shift one gear from what gear you were in last ,also if you make mistake(which i have done 5 times in the last 150 miles)pulling on the stick to the left while driving,hold the shifter to the right for 3 seconds and it will revert to the normal d.

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Old 10-02-2012, 03:47 PM   #62
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OK, multiple 2013 owners have now chimed in with the same problem. This is not cool. While better than an engine tick (since this is probably software related), it is still a bit of a concern that Jeep would change this and not update the owners manual (or course the OM is still missing the tow ratings for 3.21 autos), or that Jeep didn't mean to change this...and it somehow slipped through quality control.

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Old 10-03-2012, 07:37 AM   #63
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OK, multiple 2013 owners have now chimed in with the same problem. This is not cool. While better than an engine tick (since this is probably software related), it is still a bit of a concern that Jeep would change this and not update the owners manual (or course the OM is still missing the tow ratings for 3.21 autos), or that Jeep didn't mean to change this...and it somehow slipped through quality control.
Oh boy. Taking to dealer tomorrow for reflash. Will see how it goes and what insight I get.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:43 PM   #64
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My 2013 Auto shifts just like the SRT's A580's do. here is the article : Not sure what people don't understand about it........

SRT Hallmarks: The stout A580 automatic transmission lays down the power. | driveSRT
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:26 PM   #65
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My 2013 Auto shifts just like the SRT's A580's do. here is the article : Not sure what people don't understand about it........

SRT Hallmarks: The stout A580 automatic transmission lays down the power. | driveSRT
Read article. Did not find how the trans handles downshift-upshift protocol, just the power/performance upshift. Hey, my 2013 does that just fine. But can't establish relevance to the issue at hand.

Anyway, the 2013 ERS as described in the 2013 and 2012 Wrangler OM indicates that when ERS is engaged by left tap of shift lever that the following gears are available when the left numbered gear below is selected. Read as in automatic up shift available as well as automatic downshift available. That's what available means to me and is the way All my late model automatics operate.

1st-----1st
2nd-----1-2
3rd-----1-2-3
4th-----1-2-3-4

However, my trans locks me out of the RANGE above after an automatic or manual downshift. Once down-shifted, never back up to selected gear. The Owner Manual and actual operation on mine don't agree. Further, the 2012 I drove did operate as advertised above and was what I expected to have on my 2013.

Now, I do not expect this to be a big deal. I'm not literate on computer controlled vehicles, but expect some software changes can be made to give me what I paid for.

Finally, just so everyone knows. I took my buddy for a spin. He drives a hot Audi with all time 4W drive system and is an upper tier Audi(don't ask me the model). Afterward, he said Hey What's the Problem? Mine Operates the Same Way. So. It may be the greatest since sliced bread, but not for me.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:32 PM   #66
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Did you ever make it to the dealer?

It seems to me that if I wanted to lock-out 5th gear...I should not have to manually upshift whenever I slow down and speed up again. If I wanted to lock-out gears as I deaccelerated, then upshift manually as I accelerated, I would much rather go THAT route instead of having the computer lock-out each gear as I slow down.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:42 PM   #67
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Just verified my 2013 JKU Sport has this same issue. Doesn't automatically up-shift back to the chosen gear.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:08 PM   #68
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Ditto...2013 JKR
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:14 PM   #69
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i'm thinking that is probably how it is supposed to work. Now that I am used to it I don't have a problem with it. I am thinking if the salesman would have explained how it worked I probably would not have had any issues. I actually like it now that I know it is not going to shift up on its own.
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:30 PM   #70
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Service dept is in info gathering mode after reflash unsuccessful. Solving a mystery begins in ernest.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:50 PM   #71
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Service dept is in info gathering mode after reflash unsuccessful. Solving a mystery begins in ernest.
Wow, keep us informed.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:19 AM   #72
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If my Wrangler is in "3" it will upshift & downshift between 1 & 3.
After reading this thread, I gave manual mode a try. I was in traffic/construction so it wasn't a good run. It seems to be very different from my '06 WK. The JK does what stans1 & others stated, where as the WK would hold the low gear until a programmed red line then up shift. So far I'm not a fan of this manual shift programming in the JK.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:58 PM   #73
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After reading this thread, I gave manual mode a try. I was in traffic/construction so it wasn't a good run. It seems to be very different from my '06 WK. The JK does what stans1 & others stated, where as the WK would hold the low gear until a programmed red line then up shift. So far I'm not a fan of this manual shift programming in the JK.
I like the way the 2012's work (and the OM reads) myself. I don't understand the value of having a tranny that continually locks out each gear as you decend through them. That defeats the purpose of being able to manually choose your highest gear.

It would be like pulling a trailer or driving in the mountains, and hitting the OD lock-out button on a 4 speed trany......and having the tranny lock-out 4th gear (as it should), but then locking out 3rd, then 2nd as you slow down. If you come to a stop, 2nd, 3rd (and 4th since you hit the OD button) are all locked out.....why? If you wanted to lock out 3rd or 2nd, you could just tap down to lock them out.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:44 AM   #74
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To all thread posters

Thanks for all the feed back and comments. I polled a number of 2012 Rubicon owners via PM and learned the auto trans operates as it should and as specified in both 2012 and 2013 Owner manuals. Through mistake or not Chrysler has apparently changed the shift protocol on the 2013 auto trans. This without any notification I can find. My dealer was completely ignorant of the change and it is my belief that buyers of all 2013's were left out in the cold as well.

To date I can find no 2013's that shift as they should. If anyone knows of any 2013's that do operate properly, it'd help my case to know this. (I also find no 2012's that operate like the 2013's; if anyone knows differently I'd likewise like to know.)

I am very dissatisfied with my shift pattern. It remains to be seen if Chrysler will do the "right thing" voluntarily or not.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:13 AM   #75
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The window stickers that I have seen may have a clue. The parts content section towards the bottom of the sticker has a line for the transmission. On the 2012's that I have seen, the source is DE (Germany?), the 2013's has US as the source. Anyone else noticed this?
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:44 AM   #76
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The window stickers that I have seen may have a clue. The parts content section towards the bottom of the sticker has a line for the transmission. On the 2012's that I have seen, the source is DE (Germany?), the 2013's has US as the source. Anyone else noticed this?
Hummmm. I read on-line from the trans part number several weeks ago that ours are Mercedes trans's. Bet you are on to something.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:57 AM   #77
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Very interesting....
I would prefer the 2012 shifting style.

I was hoping it was just a software fix. I have one on the way....and I'll bring it up with the dealer.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:49 AM   #78
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I read through this thread and what I have learned is that some want a manual mode that is still partially automatic. I very much prefer completely separate manual and automatic modes. If I switch to manual, I want a manual sequential pattern that I dictate. If I want automatic shifts, I will simply put it back in automatic mode. It's just easier for my small brain to keep track of that way.

Of course, to each his own, but just let me know if you all are going to complain to Jeep so I can contact them and request that they not change the current programming
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:36 AM   #79
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Having owned a '12 Rubicon and now a '13 Rubicon the trans programing is completely different between the two. I have not driven my '13 much for the first two months of ownership and put only 115 miles on it. Thursday I loaded it on the trailer and went to Colorado and over five days put 600 more miles on it in the mountains. The new trans program works well in a couple ways. You now have the ability to take it out of D and lock it into the gear the trans is currently operating in. If it is in third going up a steep grade you can pull it to the right once and it will leave D and go to 3 and keep it there till you slow down. When in manual mode it will hold the selected gear MUCH better than the '12 or any auto trans I have ever driven. The only way it will leave the selected gear is to slow way down or complete full throttle acceleration. You can have it in any gear and 90% throttle without it downshifting on its own which is handy on long grades. The fact it downshifts at very slow speeds and doesn't go back up to the selected gear is something to get used to but the ability to hold a gear and not have the darn thing downshift with heavy throttle pressure makes up for this strange behavior. After driving in manual mode over varying roads you will understand EXACTLY why it does what it does in all respects. Do I like it? I think so, just takes some getting used to. Would I go back to the '12 programing? Not on your life! The '12 cannot be put in manual mode without dropping one gear, sucks completely.

One other issue. After driving my '12 for significant periods of time in 4lo the trans would go into brain lock if neutral was used and require a restart of the engine to be able to move forward. I showed this operation to the dealer using the video function of my phone and received a complete blank stare in return. The video showed me trying drive and reverse and nothing happening, simply stuck in neuteral. Also shifting between 4hi, 4lo and 2hi and no difference, all well documented on three different videos. After reviewing the videos Chrysler Corp engineers said I didn't shift the shifter completely into drive or reverse. These idiots couldn't believe the manual rocking motion from side to side meant the shifter was in drive. My new '13 is experiencing similar issues in 4lo where you lose ability to move completely till you rev the engine or turn it off and restart. When in drive you rev it to 2k and it drops in HARD. It's hard to resist touching the throttle when the shifter is in drive and the trans acts like it is in neutral. Instinct is to rev it just a little but the Jeep almost jumps off the ground when it finally decides to go into gear all by itself. Since this is 4lo it is worse.

I really love Jeeps but have absolute hatred for Chrysler and their piss poor engineering. Some of the stupidity is just shocking!
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #80
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Nice observations.

Don't you just love computer controlled everything? Somehow I just can't get rid of the image of the Airbus plowing into the trees at the end of the runway during the airshow because some engineer didn't imagine that anyone would fly one in the airshow with the wheels down, close to the ground and want to do anything but land. Or how about the Patriot missle that followed the Scud into an apartment building in Israel because someone didn't have a good topo map or forgot to tell the Patriot missle system that intercepts below ground level don't count....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverton34 View Post
Having owned a '12 Rubicon and now a '13 Rubicon the trans programing is completely different between the two. I have not driven my '13 much for the first two months of ownership and put only 115 miles on it. Thursday I loaded it on the trailer and went to Colorado and over five days put 600 more miles on it in the mountains. The new trans program works well in a couple ways. You now have the ability to take it out of D and lock it into the gear the trans is currently operating in. If it is in third going up a steep grade you can pull it to the right once and it will leave D and go to 3 and keep it there till you slow down. When in manual mode it will hold the selected gear MUCH better than the '12 or any auto trans I have ever driven. The only way it will leave the selected gear is to slow way down or complete full throttle acceleration. You can have it in any gear and 90% throttle without it downshifting on its own which is handy on long grades. The fact it downshifts at very slow speeds and doesn't go back up to the selected gear is something to get used to but the ability to hold a gear and not have the darn thing downshift with heavy throttle pressure makes up for this strange behavior. After driving in manual mode over varying roads you will understand EXACTLY why it does what it does in all respects. Do I like it? I think so, just takes some getting used to. Would I go back to the '12 programing? Not on your life! The '12 cannot be put in manual mode without dropping one gear, sucks completely.

One other issue. After driving my '12 for significant periods of time in 4lo the trans would go into brain lock if neutral was used and require a restart of the engine to be able to move forward. I showed this operation to the dealer using the video function of my phone and received a complete blank stare in return. The video showed me trying drive and reverse and nothing happening, simply stuck in neuteral. Also shifting between 4hi, 4lo and 2hi and no difference, all well documented on three different videos. After reviewing the videos Chrysler Corp engineers said I didn't shift the shifter completely into drive or reverse. These idiots couldn't believe the manual rocking motion from side to side meant the shifter was in drive. My new '13 is experiencing similar issues in 4lo where you lose ability to move completely till you rev the engine or turn it off and restart. When in drive you rev it to 2k and it drops in HARD. It's hard to resist touching the throttle when the shifter is in drive and the trans acts like it is in neutral. Instinct is to rev it just a little but the Jeep almost jumps off the ground when it finally decides to go into gear all by itself. Since this is 4lo it is worse.

I really love Jeeps but have absolute hatred for Chrysler and their piss poor engineering. Some of the stupidity is just shocking!
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:43 AM   #81
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This is not about preference

To Geoscene and Silverton.

I am glad you like the 2013 operation(by the way, Silverton, my auto downshifts sometimes and sometimes remains in same gear on manual downshift). Anyway, I don't like the 2013 protocol.

I hope you will grant me that the OM's of 2012 AND 2013 describes the correct ERS operation is as 2012 actually operates. Something happened in the software and dealers and buyers were NOT informed. I did not get what was expected or advertised. Any cop-out on Chrysler's part that specifications are subject to change without notice, which is what I am expecting to happen, is just that, a cop-out. Legal, not ethical. The re-flash should be provided to those want it.

And I am truly happy you are happy.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:53 AM   #82
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To Geoscene and Silverton.

I am glad you like the 2013 operation(by the way, Silverton, my auto downshifts sometimes and sometimes remains in same gear on manual downshift). Anyway, I don't like the 2013 protocol.

I hope you will grant me that the OM's of 2012 AND 2013 describes the correct ERS operation is as 2012 actually operates. Something happened in the software and dealers and buyers were NOT informed. I did not get what was expected or advertised. Any cop-out on Chrysler's part that specifications are subject to change without notice, which is what I am expecting to happen, is just that, a cop-out. Legal, not ethical. The re-flash should be provided to those want it.

And I am truly happy you are happy.
Have you talked to anyone at jeep/chrysler about this? I originally hated how it worked as my earlier posts have indicated but after a month and 2500 miles I have gotten used to how it works and no longer give it a second thought. My biggest beef with it now is that a passenger can unknowingly downshift to any lower gear no matter how fast you are going. I think there should be some kind of safe guard so it can not be downshifted say to 1 or 2nd while doning 75 or 80 mph. I think that should be a safety recall as could cause an accident if you are in heavy traffic and all of sudden get shifted into 1st at 75mph.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:54 AM   #83
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Granted it is an over-engineered system for the '13 Wranglers. The engineers that wrote this program were trying to be cute but failed. Look at the manual mode in GM trucks, it's simple, it works perfectly. Now that I have driven my '13 more and know exactly HOW it works it is ok but it really takes more thought to drive in manual mode than it should. And by the way, 4lo completely changes the operation again. The trans in 4lo operates exactly as the '12 did in 2hi, go figure. You just can't make some of this crap up.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:13 AM   #84
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Have you talked to anyone at jeep/chrysler about this? I originally hated how it worked as my earlier posts have indicated but after a month and 2500 miles I have gotten used to how it works and no longer give it a second thought. My biggest beef with it now is that a passenger can unknowingly downshift to any lower gear no matter how fast you are going. I think there should be some kind of safe guard so it can not be downshifted say to 1 or 2nd while doning 75 or 80 mph. I think that should be a safety recall as could cause an accident if you are in heavy traffic and all of sudden get shifted into 1st at 75mph.
This happened to me twice on two seperate test drives. The salesman hit the shifter.

I doubt the will fix this. They may change it to a lockout button on the shifter for 2014. Thats my guess.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:32 AM   #85
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This happened to me twice on two seperate test drives. The salesman hit the shifter.

I doubt the will fix this. They may change it to a lockout button on the shifter for 2014. Thats my guess.
That would work for me and should be an easy retro fit too boot. It seems with how finicky the NHTSA is they would require it.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:11 AM   #86
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Granted it is an over-engineered system for the '13 Wranglers. The engineers that wrote this program were trying to be cute but failed. Look at the manual mode in GM trucks, it's simple, it works perfectly. Now that I have driven my '13 more and know exactly HOW it works it is ok but it really takes more thought to drive in manual mode than it should. And by the way, 4lo completely changes the operation again. The trans in 4lo operates exactly as the '12 did in 2hi, go figure. You just can't make some of this crap up.
OMG! I haven't had the opportunity to get off road enough to know this. Thanks for the heads-up. This is important operational info. I assumed wrongly both modes were the same. So 4hi operates as 2WD protocol on the2013's while 4lo uses the 2012 protocol?? We are going on a two day off road event this weekend, and I will be prepared thanks to you.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:26 AM   #87
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Have you talked to anyone at jeep/chrysler about this? I originally hated how it worked as my earlier posts have indicated but after a month and 2500 miles I have gotten used to how it works and no longer give it a second thought. My biggest beef with it now is that a passenger can unknowingly downshift to any lower gear no matter how fast you are going. I think there should be some kind of safe guard so it can not be downshifted say to 1 or 2nd while doning 75 or 80 mph. I think that should be a safety recall as could cause an accident if you are in heavy traffic and all of sudden get shifted into 1st at 75mph.

Definitely have talked to dealer, and they to Chrysler. Want to be fair and give my dealer and Chrysler more time. As to your issue, you are saying there is no RPM limiter that prevents this dramatic accidental downshift? Or that it needs resetting if there is?
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:50 AM   #88
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Definitely have talked to dealer, and they to Chrysler. Want to be fair and give my dealer and Chrysler more time. As to your issue, you are saying there is no RPM limiter that prevents this dramatic accidental downshift? Or that it needs resetting if there is?

no go out and try it, get going about 70 in drive and then tap the shifter to the left 3X's and watch your rpms go sky high and your vehicle come to a sudden slow down due to engine braking. It is the same as if you shifted a manual from 6th to 3rd and dumped the clutch. It is not an issue when I am alone but when you have a passenger you have to tell them to be careful. My wife's purse pressed against the lever causing the downshift. I actually do like how it works other then that.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:58 AM   #89
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no go out and try it, get going about 70 in drive and then tap the shifter to the left 3X's and watch your rpms go sky high and your vehicle come to a sudden slow down due to engine braking. It is the same as if you shifted a manual from 6th to 3rd and dumped the clutch. It is not an issue when I am alone but when you have a passenger you have to tell them to be careful. My wife's purse pressed against the lever causing the downshift. I actually do like how it works other then
that.
If I tap mine at highway speed it will shift to 5 or maybe 4 depending on rpm. Will experiment some more.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:20 PM   #90
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If I tap mine at highway speed it will shift to 5 or maybe 4 depending on rpm. Will experiment some more.
oh I believe if you hold it to the left it will shift all the way to 1st.

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